More than one universe?...multiverse?

[Raptordrew]

Just a thought...I know the word "universe" means: Everything. (pretty much). So can there be another universe? thats like having 2 x infinite. It is a good question and im curious to see who goes scientific with theories and myths and who goes philosophical with saying "universe" is just a word. I know our universe, as of 2003, contained 70 sextrillian stars. Recently a scientist said, since the universe is constantly expanding, the number of stars could be infinite. Parallel universe(s) and other dimensions...any thoughts?

[Cavernio]

I recently learned about the existence of string theory from NOVA. (Anyone else watch MPBN? I suppose they have to, else it wouldn't be around :-p)
I'm definitely no physicist though, but I learned about the existence of String theory. This is still just a theory in physics due to a lack of being able to measure the minute forces though, (although we're working on getting to measure these things http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/200...n_collider.php)
In any case, some theories say that there're multiple dimensions, others say that supersymmetry exists, others say there could be multiple universes.

[Raptordrew]

interesting. I wonder if its possible to go so far into the universe that you eventually would end up on the other side. Like travelling on the earth, you just keep going.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by Raptordrew

Just a thought...I know the word "universe" means: Everything. (pretty much). So can there be another universe? thats like having 2 x infinite.

Actually, it's like having infinite ^ infinite. Infinite times, infinite universes, infinite alternate realities (which may or may not have similar physics laws as our reality, like gravity or basic principles of energy and matter).

It is a good question and im curious to see who goes scientific with theories and myths and who goes philosophical with saying "universe" is just a word.

Universe is just a word. It is a word we have assigned to all of everything in the real world. If alternate realities or universes exist, they're not part of the Universe anyway, so in a way, they aren't "real."

I know our universe, as of 2003, contained 70 sextrillian stars.

How could you, or ANYONE possible know how many stars exist in a Universe in which the dimension of it is so massive it is often described as "infinite"?

Recently a scientist said, since the universe is constantly expanding, the number of stars could be infinite. Parallel universe(s) and other dimensions...any thoughts?

Just because something is expanding doesn't necessarily mean it has an end. Think of a rubber band. It can expand. But if you were to travel along the flat edge of it, you could travel forever without hitting an end. Not a very good example, but how else could one explain 4th dimensional concepts in a universe with only 3 visible dimensions?

[SpookG]

I really don't want to touch much of your question other than one point, because your own standpoint is vague, so if you're going for devil's advocate, well whatever, make up your mind.

Really..if you want to learn about things as complicated as string theory you're better off not reading such on these forums.

"I know our universe, as of 2003, contained 70 sextrillian stars. Recently a scientist said, since the universe is constantly expanding, the number of stars could be infinite."

This is wrong, and it bothers me someone of science would say something like that. There is only a finite number of stars. Matter is limited, space is not. Just because the number is beyond human comprehension does not mean it does not exist.

[Tasselfoot]

I'm sorry to go off-topic on a CT thread.... but holy ****... SUP SPOOK!!!


As a promise, I will give meaningful comments on this thread later tonight.

[Iam_a_Maid]

Originally Posted by SpookG

This is wrong, and it bothers me someone of science would say something like that. There is only a finite number of stars. Matter is limited, space is not. Just because the number is beyond human comprehension does not mean it does not exist.

What you are saying has same credibility as the posters above, since you don't really know anyway.

Guessing, theorizing.. sure.

[Reach]

Well, we should all know infinity has no value, therefore you can't have more than infinity and the value of infinity can never change.


When scientists talk about multiverses they are refering to our universe as what is visible; the 13.7 billion year old manifestation of energy that we are able to see around us. So another universe would simply be another part of space time which is not visible to us at the time.



The universe is expanding, therefore space is finite, not infinite. Atleast visible space is finite. If something is getting larger it can't possibly be infinite


The idea that matter could exist infinitely is fairly scary.


Philosophically, even when I think of space time beyond what is visible to us, I like the idea of having it being bound somewhere. But it probably isn't.



I suppose since I believe the universe and life never began and will never end, but will simply change form, the idea of infinite 'space' outside the universe doesn't bother me that much, and makes a lot of sense in hypothesis because there are no real problems with such a concept.

In all likelyhood our universe probably wasn't a special event and there are probably an infinite number of 'manifestations of energy' extended out into an infinite space in multiple dimensions of space time to avoid conflict. And as you can imagine, different rates of expansion during the 'big bang' would cause an entirely different chain reaction of events and the possibilities are quite amazing ;o

[Cavernio]

Why is it sure that matter isn't infinite? Or rather, my question is, why are we sure matter isn't expanding with the size of the universe?

[Reach]

Originally Posted by Cavernio

Why is it sure that matter isn't infinite? Or rather, my question is, why are we sure matter isn't expanding with the size of the universe?

? What

If the universe is expanding there can't possibly be infinite matter inside of it.


As for whatever else you said, I'm not quite sure what you mean. Why isn't matter expanding? Because it isn't effected by the expansion of space time? xD (atleast not yet)

[ddr_f4n]

Originally Posted by Raptordrew

I know our universe, as of 2003, contained 70 sextrillian stars.

How can scientists tell if there were 70 sextrillian star in 2003? There could be much more in our universe since we don't have the technology to know the exact amount of stars in our universe. There is, of course, an finite amount of stars in the universe(s).

I think that in my opinion that there ia a parallel universe that exists which contains everything that is completely different from us. They are the exact opposites of us, opposite personalities, opposite looks, and opposite everything. All matter is opposite from everthing in our universe. But this is only my opinion.

[Reach]

How can scientists tell if there were 70 sextrillian star in 2003? There could be much more in our universe since we don't have the technology to know the exact amount of stars in our universe. There is, of course, an finite amount of stars in the universe(s).

When WMAP mapped the sky, which was in 2003 as I recall, they estimated the galaxies in the universe to be over 100 billion.


And then you could estimate 100+ billion stars per galaxy based on ones we've observed.

Though I've never heard anyone credible put an exact estimate on the number of stars.

[Cavernio]

So matter can't be infinitely dense somewhere? I think black holes are supposed to be very dense. Am I being completely nonsensical to say that perhaps they become inifintely so? (seriously, me + physics = ignoramus) What if matter crosses over from a different universe or something? :-p

What my second question was wasn't saying that matter would be expanding BECAUSE space is expanding, but rather that if its possible for space to expand, as odd a concept as that is, then its just as plausible that matter might also be expanding. Whether the 2 would be related or not isn't the issue.

[this_n00b_rocks]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Universe is just a word. It is a word we have assigned to all of everything in the real world. If alternate realities or universes exist, they're not part of the Universe anyway, so in a way, they aren't "real."

Universe is just a word, but so is "infinity". Infinity is a word, not a number, that represents something we can not imagine. Try thinking about infinite apples, all lined up perfectly in a gigantic plain. Now try to find the end of the apples. You can't. Even if the apples extended 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 miles in every direction, that still doesn't explain infinity. To answer the multiverse question, there most likely is more than one universe. They're probably at different times, or at the same time as ours. And yes, they could be considered real, but in a different sense of the word. I can't really explain it, but let's try this:
Let's say I have an apple. Now, if I were able to throw the apple at a certain velocity that is fast enough to rip through space-time, and go to another universe, would the apple be real anymore. Yes it would be.

[Reach]

Originally Posted by Cavernio

So matter can't be infinitely dense somewhere? I think black holes are supposed to be very dense. Am I being completely nonsensical to say that perhaps they become inifintely so? (seriously, me + physics = ignoramus) What if matter crosses over from a different universe or something? :-p

What my second question was wasn't saying that matter would be expanding BECAUSE space is expanding, but rather that if its possible for space to expand, as odd a concept as that is, then its just as plausible that matter might also be expanding. Whether the 2 would be related or not isn't the issue.

Infinite density doesn't exist, that's the thing...because in order for something to be infinitely dense it can't have any volume. Paradox in itself; it's impossible.

You're talking about the singularity of a black hole...which is sort of a phenomenom. The mathematical solution is that it is infinitely dense, yes, but that is because again it doesn't actually exist, mathematically. The general solution to GR gives 0/0, which is why Einstein didn't think teh black hole existed in the first place. It is now thought that essentially a singularity destorys space time on every 'planck length' (1.6x10^-36 M)...but really we don't understand singularities.



And uh, I guess matter can expand...certainly. However, as a whole no, matter within the universe isn't magically 'expanding' or anything. If the universe begins expanding too fast you'll get the big rip, where matter as we know it is destoryed because energy is being pulled apart so quickly.

[Cavernio]

Whoa, so I had some validity in talking about infinite density? Cool.
Go limit of 0/0.

[Lomir]

I believe the theory where that for every choice you come to make there is another universe/dimension created for each path you could of took, So every single possibility is played out in another universe...I also believe that there is research going underway to create a quantum mechanical computer, which basically, This is because if you can harness that power...theory states that the computer will of already computed the equation you want in another parrallel dimension, without you even turning on the computer...All quantum mechanics people...I think lol, light explores every single possible path it may take before it hits it's target...this is just an extension of that idea i believe...

Just think...Cool...I beat Doom 4273237 without even turning my pc on....

[MagicCarpetRide]

See heres what i think, IF youve ever played on any of those online games there are servers, Maplestory is popluar so lets use that for an example. Pretend we are on the windia server. We have no connection to the other server but they are in the exact same world as us. Everythings the same. I can't describe it very well but say god made a universe, our universe. Whos to say he didnt make another universe with the milky way and the sun and everything else but we have no connection to that universe. All the same mountains, all the same lakes, but all different people and animals.....Just thinka bout it.

[Kit-]

If there is such a thing as an alternate universe which we have no way of contacting, which I sincerely doubt, then why the hell do we care?

[this_n00b_rocks]

Originally Posted by Kit-

If there is such a thing as an alternate universe which we have no way of contacting, which I sincerely doubt, then why the hell do we care?

This is critical thinking. We care because we're intelligent.