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Old 06-5-2006, 03:08 AM   #21
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patashu
Just? It's not exactly trival for even a single cellular organism to be.
Meteorites sometimes possess bacteria, where do those come from? Building blocks are already in place.
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Old 06-5-2006, 03:41 AM   #22
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

rofl

Meteorites possess bacteria? Of course they do - everything on the surface of the earth, pretty much, possesses bacteria. Unless of course you meant meteoroids, in which case could you back that up with evidence?

Also thanks for conveniently ignoring my last post which addresses your argument quite clearly.
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Old 06-5-2006, 03:57 AM   #23
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingspinach
rofl

Meteorites possess bacteria? Of course they do - everything on the surface of the earth, pretty much, possesses bacteria. Unless of course you meant meteoroids, in which case could you back that up with evidence?

Also thanks for conveniently ignoring my last post which addresses your argument quite clearly.
It doesn't at all, it has same weight as mine. And you know it ;p
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Old 06-5-2006, 04:50 AM   #24
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

Prove it by actually responding this time. And this time you have ignored my point about the "meteorites" that you mentioned.
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Old 06-5-2006, 11:06 AM   #25
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

flamingspinachs idea makes no logical sense to me, not that I can disprove it either way.

The chemistry - physics - laws of the universe are everywhere. The stuff that composes us and everything in the universe is everywhere. Nitrogenated aromatics are these funny things that are basically lifes lego, and they're everywhere.

I don't thiknk life on other plants would look like we'd expect it to though. At all, because of how evolution works. I would say technological lifeforms like ourselves are probably very rare, though, I would assume there are lifeforms beyond what we can comprehend both those that do not rely on technology and those that actually cannot function without it, or possibly lifeforms spawned from technology itself. o_O

Who knows. XD
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Old 06-5-2006, 11:29 AM   #26
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

Hey, if Captain Kirk can score with hot Alien chicks, so can I. ;P
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Old 06-5-2006, 11:52 AM   #27
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patashu
Just? It's not exactly trival for even a single cellular organism to be.
Actually, I'd be MUCH more impressed with the ability of intelligent life to arise from simple life than simple life arising from nothing.

Too many people think abiogenesis is some profound, mystical obstruction or discontinuity that any explanation of the beginning of life can't bridge. Honestly, I don't think it's all that special. Life is generally defined as a metabolic, replicative process. Feeding off of energy gradients, nonlife quickly picks up one or the other of these qualities, and so long as a sufficient gradient is maintained, even in an autocatalytic reaction, the other will likely follow. Complexity from simplicity in nonliving systems is nothing special.

However, you'd need a sufficiently varied environment in order for more complex life to develop. For example, at the bottom of the methane oceans of an icy moon of Jupiter, there may be life seething around geothermal jets, but outside of that little system there's nothing but frigid waters (of methane or water; doesn't matter) where there's no energy off which to feed. Above the surface there's just ice. Even if life were to develop further and was able to survive aboveground, there's no reason to diversify after that. Intelligent life needs a FAR more specialized environment to exist than "stupid" life.

That said, I still think there's intelligent life out there, given the sheer size of the universe and the number of possibilities of configurations (fs, you used a grossly exaggerated figure there). Perhaps not, and such a notion is comforting to my conceit, but I like to think there's a way to meet some aliens.

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Old 06-5-2006, 12:18 PM   #28
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

facts leave no room for possibility..(try to find out where that came from?). Actual life similar to human beings is highly unlikely considering the process of creation i.e. and environment capable of sustaining life.
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Old 06-5-2006, 12:38 PM   #29
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Talking Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reach
I don't thiknk life on other plants would look like we'd expect it to though. At all, because of how evolution works. I would say technological lifeforms like ourselves are probably very rare, though, I would assume there are lifeforms beyond what we can comprehend both those that do not rely on technology and those that actually cannot function without it, or possibly lifeforms spawned from technology itself. o_O
What I'm saying is that precisely BECAUSE life on other planets wouldn't even look like us (i.e. wouldn't even be structured as we are) there is a very low probability of it having intelligence, in our sense of the word. It may (if the ecosphere is allowed to evolve and selects for complexity) have other very "advanced" features on the same level as "intelligence", but it wouldn't necessarily (in fact probably wouldn't) have the features we've come to associate with intelligence, such as consciousness, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoHunter
Actually, I'd be MUCH more impressed with the ability of intelligent life to arise from simple life than simple life arising from nothing.

Too many people think abiogenesis is some profound, mystical obstruction or discontinuity that any explanation of the beginning of life can't bridge. Honestly, I don't think it's all that special. Life is generally defined as a metabolic, replicative process. Feeding off of energy gradients, nonlife quickly picks up one or the other of these qualities, and so long as a sufficient gradient is maintained, even in an autocatalytic reaction, the other will likely follow. Complexity from simplicity in nonliving systems is nothing special.

However, you'd need a sufficiently varied environment in order for more complex life to develop. For example, at the bottom of the methane oceans of an icy moon of Jupiter, there may be life seething around geothermal jets, but outside of that little system there's nothing but frigid waters (of methane or water; doesn't matter) where there's no energy off which to feed. Above the surface there's just ice. Even if life were to develop further and was able to survive aboveground, there's no reason to diversify after that. Intelligent life needs a FAR more specialized environment to exist than "stupid" life.

That said, I still think there's intelligent life out there, given the sheer size of the universe and the number of possibilities of configurations (fs, you used a grossly exaggerated figure there). Perhaps not, and such a notion is comforting to my conceit, but I like to think there's a way to meet some aliens.

--Guido
The "probability" I used was a hypothetical WCS My point was mainly just that we can't expect something even analogous to our own intelligence to arise in alien lifeforms, though the probability of life being formed on other planets is quite high due to just the ease of formation of protobionts. Once you have a functioning and reproducing cell, evolution will take it in SOME direction, given a habitable environment. So I think the existence of extraterrestrial life is quite plausible. However to think that billions of years of evolution of a different ecosphere from our own is capable of resulting in something that can be compared with a sapient human is rather far-fetched. It would be nice though

-fs
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Old 06-5-2006, 12:43 PM   #30
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Thumbs up Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

I am a Christian and I believe there are other lifeforms out there. MAny of them are probably too small for us to see, but then Faith is impossible to physically see and IT IS there. God made the world in a few days but what was a day? 24 hours? 1 year? 100 million years? Is that how the world is so "old"? There are also verses from the Bible saying that "ministering spirits" exist (try Revelation 5:11 and Hebrew 1:13-14). As for people walking around with big heads and having the whole "telepathic power", umm..that sounds sketchy. Our galaxy contains 200 BILLION stars and the universe has over 125 billion galaxies in it!! The odds of us being alone in this universe are...not likely.
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Old 06-7-2006, 08:32 PM   #31
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoHunter
Two, could you give verse numbers for that chariot of fire line?

--Guido
2 Kings 2:1-12


1Not long before the LORD took Elijah up into heaven in a strong wind, Elijah and Elisha were leaving Gilgal. 2Elijah said to Elisha, "The LORD wants me to go to Bethel, but you must stay here."
Elisha replied, "I swear by the living LORD and by your own life that I will stay with you no matter what!" And he went with Elijah to Bethel.

3A group of prophets who lived there asked Elisha, "Do you know that today the LORD is going to take away your master?"

"Yes, I do," Elisha answered. "But don't remind me of it."

4Elijah then said, "Elisha, now the LORD wants me to go to Jericho, but you must stay here."

Elisha replied, "I swear by the living LORD and by your own life, that I will stay with you no matter what!" And he went with Elijah to Jericho.

5A group of prophets who lived there asked Elisha, "Do you know that today the LORD is going to take away your master?"

"Yes, I do," Elisha answered. "But don't remind me of it."

6Elijah then said to Elisha, "Now the LORD wants me to go to the Jordan River, but you must stay here."

Elisha replied, "I swear by the living LORD and by your own life that I will never leave you!" So the two of them walked on together.

7Fifty prophets followed Elijah and Elisha from Jericho, then stood at a distance and watched as the two men walked toward the river. 8When they got there, Elijah took off his coat, then he rolled it up and struck the water with it. At once a path opened up through the river, and the two of them walked across on dry ground.

9After they had reached the other side, Elijah said, "Elisha, the LORD will soon take me away. What can I do for you before that happens?"

Elisha answered, "Please give me twice as much of your power as you give the other prophets, so I can be the one who takes your place as their leader."

10"It won't be easy," Elijah answered. "It can happen only if you see me as I am being taken away."

11Elijah and Elisha were walking along and talking, when suddenly there appeared between them a flaming chariot pulled by fiery horses. Right away, a strong wind took Elijah up into heaven. 12Elisha saw this and shouted, "Israel's cavalry and chariots have taken my master away!" [a] After Elijah had gone, Elisha tore his clothes in sorrow.
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Old 06-8-2006, 10:37 PM   #32
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

Quote:
Originally Posted by drake_legendz
It's a question men have ponderd since we first learnt that space was a vast emptiness that seemed to go on forever, ARE we alone in the whole of space or is there other sentiant life forms out there. One thing that comes to my mind is that it might be possible. What if gods really were not gods after all, what if in fact they were a very advanced race of lifeforms who discovered our low tech planet and it's simple lifeforms....Think about it. It is said in the Christian bible that god (or was it jesus? I don't know im not christian) came down on a chariot of fire. What if in fact this "chariot" was really a landing pod from the life forms space ship? I for one have a hard time beleive that we are the only life forms in the whole vastness of space. Heres something else to think about. What if humans were just a science project thet got out of hand for a more advanced race of beings that we thought wer really gods? Would it not explain why they no longer have contact with us? The christians beleive that god created the world in seven days. Maybe it was created in seven days but not by a god.
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Old 06-9-2006, 12:18 AM   #33
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaff
[verses]
Thank you.

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Old 06-9-2006, 12:46 AM   #34
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

If there were more advanced lifeforms out there when they show up, they'd kill us all. Just think, it would be like us caring about stepping on ants. If they were hundreds or thousands of years more advanced than us they would have no use for us other than possibly using our planet.
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Old 06-9-2006, 12:58 AM   #35
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

Ok first what you have to realize is that the universe is so friggin huge that until about 4000 we probably wont have half of it charted lol i mean we are one Galaxy in what?....4 billion others???.....I mean are planet took billions of years to form and to make us what we are now who's to say that there wasnt already another planet thats done so itself?? i mean come on!!! if evolution can happen on one planet then so can it happen on another if the planet can support bacteria thus bacteria will evolve and soon grow into various things I belive in a scientific point that it is inevitible for life not to exsist so there must be some else were weither or not they are able to come to this planet im not sure I personaly dont belive in goverment conspearences
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Old 06-9-2006, 02:08 AM   #36
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

Quote:
Originally Posted by seinno
Ok first what you have to realize is that the universe is so friggin huge that until about 4000 we probably wont have half of it charted lol i mean we are one Galaxy in what?....4 billion others???.....I mean are planet took billions of years to form and to make us what we are now who's to say that there wasnt already another planet thats done so itself?? i mean come on!!! if evolution can happen on one planet then so can it happen on another if the planet can support bacteria thus bacteria will evolve and soon grow into various things I belive in a scientific point that it is inevitible for life not to exsist so there must be some else were weither or not they are able to come to this planet im not sure I personaly dont belive in goverment conspearences
or spelling.
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Old 06-9-2006, 05:58 AM   #37
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

Quote:
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or spelling.
lol
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Old 06-9-2006, 10:28 AM   #38
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triplex72
If there were more advanced lifeforms out there when they show up, they'd kill us all. Just think, it would be like us caring about stepping on ants. If they were hundreds or thousands of years more advanced than us they would have no use for us other than possibly using our planet.
I'd say, if they were smart enough to get here, then they are way beyond our technological and intelligence level, and could be very peaceful beings. Ask yourself, would you blow up another civilization if we found one? We're not exactly talking about ants here.

Or on another note, who's to say they would even care that much. Assuming we were like ants to them, there could already have been thousands of civilzations they've run into. They could simply be charting the universe. Do you run around all day stomping ants, investing potentially massive resources for travel and supplies and such? That just doesn't make sense XD You'd only kill an ant if they were invaiding your territory

I for some reason don't feel a civilization with the ability to manipulate gravity and the laws of the universe itself to travel faster than the speed of light would run around blowing up other civilizations just to steal their resources. I think they'd have to invest more resources to get here than they would find here anyway XD Because I mean, they can't just blow us up. Again, even more resources put into fighting us and getting rid of us without destorying our resources. Just doesn't make any sense.
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Old 06-9-2006, 01:01 PM   #39
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

I assume what he/she meant was that were aliens to use our planet as a resource, they would not bother trying to save us. Which I suppose is possible. Again, I doubt that any aliens we encounter would have thought processes that would even "make sense" in human terms, though.
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Old 06-9-2006, 03:51 PM   #40
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Default Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]

Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingspinach
I assume what he/she meant was that were aliens to use our planet as a resource, they would not bother trying to save us. Which I suppose is possible. Again, I doubt that any aliens we encounter would have thought processes that would even "make sense" in human terms, though.
Well yes, except we're talking about aliens that would have to be SOMEWHAT similar to us (the exception being below) if they're going to go about breaking the light barrier and zipping through the cosmos. You have to be evolved into a species that has not only developed the higher level cognitive abilities, such as creativity and abstract thinking, but they would also have to have evolved limbs that could be used in a material world, or they'd never develop down this path no matter how intelligent they are. I have a feeling any 'visitor' would atleast be 'similar' to us in terms of thought process and physical structure.

But then again, I'm assuming these aliens arn't billions of years more evolved than us. In that case, then we would likely not understand them at all, and they would also look completely unfamiliar. And certainly any species over a billion years ahead of us would likely not exist anywhere near us, meaning they would indeed have to smash the light barrier and would have to heavily rely on technology.
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