Sad but true

[psychic25]

Well, is it a good thing to be able to believe without proof?

I mean, when someone says something that sounds unbelievable and has no proof to back it up, it doesn't fly, EXCEPT in regards to religion.

Anyone who believes an idea that has no proof whatsoever is usually regarded as stupid, EXCEPT in regards to religion.

If people believed everything they heard, they'd just be a blind follower, not thinking for themselves.

And actually, I consider myself Christian. I'd like to be a better Christian, but I guess I just don't have any capacity for faith and I try to logic everything out. I don't have any problem with the existence of God, but I do have a problem with those logic loops in the Bible that I mentioned earlier- in other words, with the human-created part of it. If someone can answer those, I'll start believing right then.

[Rediahs]

Hello -Izzy-.

I'm an agnostic, and you offend me with your intolerance and ignorant attitude.

You know what I call people who go around telling other people what to think when they are perfectly happy believing what they want to? Ass-holes.

The issue has never been whether they are right or not. -Izzy-, what you fail to understand is that, no matter how strongly you believe you are right, and no matter how strongly I believe I am right, Christians feel they are right just as strongly. And it is not because they are stupid, it's not because at the root of it we're right and they're wrong, and it's not because you're smarter than them. It's because this is a very complicated issue, and it's very difficult to figure out who's right and who's wrong.

THERE IS NO POINT in telling somebody that their beliefs are wrong, when they never asked for any sort of feedback from you. Even if there were, it's just plain rude and disprespectful. And calling them the names you are calling them is just plain FUCKTARDED.

I think you need to get a life.

Once again, I'm an agnostic, and you offend me, you intolerant son of a whore.

Thanks for your time.

[Neonatrias]

I would like to redirect the last three pages of flame warring to this.

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...viewforum&f=38

Way to destroy a valid CT topic, guys.

[Mindfields]

Neonatrias, the arguement stays here because, even if it is a flame war, it is one of superiority to anything in the GB. It was not a valid CT topic in the first place because mistakes were drawn everywhere in the first post, not to mention the posting of contents from a chain letter. It now has 7 pages. People are interested. It stays here.

[Grandiagod]

I'm not going to be an Izzy here (I'll explain myself rationally) but her is why I think religious beliefs, especially christianity are a fallacy.
Now let me get things straight, I was raised a Christian until 8th grade so I'm not pulling things outa my ass. So here is my EXAMPLE, its an example people so don't go saying, Not everything is like that!!! Its not supposed to be, its an example.

Most Christians are familiar with the stor of Moses going out and finding a burning bush that was not actually being consumed by the fire, long story short the bush spoke and told Moses to free the Jews. Now I am assuming that most people know bushes do not talk, not even burning ones. But Christians believe that a plant told Moses to free the Jews, and that a man lived for three days in a whale and that a guy un-killed himself. These things are obviously impossible but they are still widely believed. If a modern day scientist said he saw a talking, eternally burning bush he would have to preform tests and experiments to prove that a bush could talk. However no one applies the scientific method to the bible because it would fail miserably. Another reason is that questioning the obvious fallacies of religion has become taboo and "intollerant" therfore ensuring the continuance of religion.

Originally Posted by MalReynolds

So the rules and standards of moral decency just appeared out of nowhere?

Show me proof that he doesn't, and maybe I'll believe you.

If everyone is argueing with you, it says something about the arguement and the person pressing the issue.

Mal

Sorry Mal, standards of moral decency did not arise due to religion of any sort. They are a set of mass occuring instictual laws that allow humans to maintain civilization. Sure the bible dictates some of these, and I am not saying "thou shall not kill" is wrong. But laws against killing were around way before the old testament and those against stealing and so on. If human kind did not evolve the compacity to have natural moral decency then cities and towns would be impossible to form due to reckless chaos. But civilization arouse way before ten commandments.

[-Izzy-]

Maybe i went about explaining it in the wrong way but the whole point is that christianity beleaves in to much stuff that is so obviouslys impossible and defys so much logic. Which is why its so obviously wrong.

[Moogy]

Lately, I find it harder and harder to give any sort of respect or credibility to anybody who is religious, no matter what religion they are or how they practice it. I cannot respect a person who is so weak they need to convince themselves that something like a "God" exists. I used to just not care, but, slowly, I've hardened my heart against any sort of religious people. I don't really care if you're going to lambast me for this, since it's just proving my point...

Anyway, this topic makes me laugh. Good work.

[Reach]

I found this thread fairly amusing, and the fact people are offended so easily in the area of religion. Though, I wouldn't have expected well thought out points from izzy to begin with.

As for the original topic, I think everyone should have their rights. Sexuality has nothing to do with how you act or how you should be treated...who your sexual partner is matters not.

And whoever brought up the golden ratio...have you ever thought of it the other way around? It's kind of like the flawed 'intelligent design' argument. Look at the vastness of the universe. You expect ratio's to not appear frequently? What about 1? and 2? 1.5? The golden ratio may be a 'special' number, but what if it is simply an inevitability considering the size of our near infinite expanding and elegant universe?

[lord_carbo]

Originally Posted by YungYung

I have it. And I'll actually type it up for you

Romans 1:25-27

They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men commited indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Yay, I finally know =O

But isn't the Christian God supposed to forgive sins? This definately looks like a "I-don't-take-no-s***" kind of thing. Looks like the Bible contradicts itself >_> I could use this quote of Chickendude as backup.

Originally Posted by chickendude

P.S.
Quoting the bible is pointless, because it was written by a bunch of random people and then edited by constantine in 300ADish to remove any human qualities. It is a highly biased piece of work, and quoting it is pointless. But, just because the bible has many many many issues, doesn't mean you have to bash religion in general. I guess the way I treat religion would be more accurately defined as a philosophy.

Originally Posted by cmb

Homosexuality is a silly topic to debate on. Anyone against someone having the rights to be homosexual is probably ignorant, stupid, a supremist, and sometimes even hypocritical if they're really dumb (you know, the one that says "I don't discriminate!"). There isn't anything to debate unless you're a Christian that lets your religion keep you ignorant or a 13 year old.



I agree debates about homosexuality are pretty pointless.However I do find it funny that you think that you think anyone who disagrees with your opinion is ignorant, stupid, etc.Especially since people who usually say that are for tolerance and free expression(or so they claim).

You don't get it: I don't care if you express what you feel, but I don't hesitate in flaming what you feel if it is a statement made off bias or stereotypes. Hatred towards homosexuals is 99.999% of the time made off stereotypes or bias. That's the kind of shit I hate and will not tolorate, and that is why I think it's a stupid topic to debate on.

Oh, please use the quote tags, looks much nicer :O

Originally Posted by -Izzy-

Its the #$#ing religion i hate. I have a couple friends that are christian.
Its just so discusting how people spend so much of their time worshiping false hope.
And in the end like always they are just going to die without seeing a single sign of god (wonder why)
Its also like that #$#ing crazy damn christian lady who thinks everyone else is the #$#ing devil.
If christianity or any other religion didnt exist everything would be so much better.
I also hate all the religious refrences made on this forum, really anoying.

Wow, I don't think I'll ever respect you. You could be insulting any religion like that and I'd freaking spit on you. You are such an impassive sacreligious asshole it isn't even funny. I hope you get banned.

PS: YOU HAVE 666 POSTS OPPS I MADE A VAGUE REFRENCE TO THE DEVIL! Actually you had 666 when I first went back to this thread, now you have 66X.

Originally Posted by MalReynolds

Pshycic, I don't care what you believe. Just believe it. Whatever you have to .

Mal

I can't believe.

I can't believe this thread hasn't been locked -__-

[Laharl]

Wow.

Let's all jump the anti-religion bandwagon. It makes us cool. =\

[-Izzy-]

Id spit on you to. I dont think ill ever respect you either after that.

[xiron]

Izzy. Give up.

Not all Christians are ignorant and try to force their religion on you. Granted, there are some that are, but that's not saying that all of them are. But, being an anti-religious zealot is just as bad as being a religious one. You are no different from those you despise so much.

[YungYung]

Originally Posted by xiron

Izzy. Give up.

Not all Christians are ignorant and try to force their religion on you. Granted, there are some that are, but that's not saying that all of them are. But, being an anti-religious zealot is just as bad as being a religious one. You are no different from those you despise so much.

You pretty much summed up all of the flaming in this thread. GG.

[cmb]

You don't get it: I don't care if you express what you feel, but I don't hesitate in flaming what you feel if it is a statement made off bias or stereotypes. Hatred towards homosexuals is 99.999% of the time made off stereotypes or bias. That's the kind of (#$% I hate and will not tolorate, and that is why I think it's a stupid topic to debate on.

Who said anything about hatred towards homosexuals,If you know people who do hate them then tell them that they themselves are sinful.However disagreeing with the lifestyle and hating the person are not the same thing.



I base my beliefs off the Bible, not by stereotyping.And like i said debating about homosexuality is pointless it accomplishes nothing.

[-Izzy-]

Nice one. You're no diffrent either. We are all the same.
Lets just jump in a big circle and dance.

Homosexuality has joy for the people that are.
Thats all that there really is in life.

[YungYung]

Originally Posted by -Izzy-

Nice one. You're no diffrent either. We are all the same.
Lets just jump in a big circle and dance.

Elaborate.

[-Izzy-]

You're human and im human. We are the same.
We are both going to die and we are both going to rot in the same earth.

[esupin]

I come back after posting in this thread the day before and what do I find? Bam! Eight new pages.

It seems like this thread has evolved from a homosexuality debate to another directionless religious one.

Ugh.

[YungYung]

Originally Posted by -Izzy-

You're human and im human. We are the same.
We are both going to die and we are both going to rot in the same earth.

Just because our bodies will rot in the same earth does not mean we have to believe our souls will rot in the same way aswell.

Some people have something called faith, a concept that you are clearly incapable of understanding. And do not pull out your scientific/logic nonsense on me again. Yes, science has infact proved teachings from the bible and multiple other religions to be IMPOSSIBLE. A man cannot survive being set on fire because he refused to worship his king. What you fail to understand is that faith has nothing to do with that. Hypothetical situation:

Your brother is a soldier at war in the mid-east with 12 other men. One night on the news you hear that 12 soldiers were killed in the mid-east because of a suicide bombing.

If you truly held on to your scientific/logical beliefs, you would assume that your brother is dead, and possibly proceed to prepare things for his funeral. But you wouldn't, would you? Because one soldier survived, and he could've been your brother. Are you saying that one tiny possibility of your brother having survived was completely blocked out of your mind?

If you can understand that, I don't know why you can't understand the concept of people having faith in some type of upper power. People believe in God for multiple reasons, and 80% of the time they understand the 'flaws in the bible' that you've been preaching about throughout this entire thread. It is because God gives them some kind of hope, wether it be to become a better person, go to heaven, or anything else for that matter, that they chose to believe him. You can't fucking understand that?

You're also making a horrid generalization that all Christians shove their religion into your face and try to 'recruit' every single living being into their little 'cult'. Not only is that completely WRONG, but you are being no different than these stereotypical christians. You are constantly pushing YOUR beliefs upon them, expecting them to suddenly go "ZOMG YOU'RE RIGHT I GUESS GOD DOESN'T REALLY EXIST." Some people grow up with it, and the concept of there being a god is ingraved in their mind. Just like the concept of killing being wrong is in our minds. If some lunatic came in here and said we should all kill the jews, he'd get a slap in the face on the spot. You're being no different.

I'm sorry if I suck at words but your ignorance this time was seriously enough to make me want to write out a good long post. =\

[psychic25]

Originally Posted by YungYung

You're also making a horrid generalization that all Christians shove their religion into your face and try to 'recruit' every single living being into their little 'cult'. Not only is that completely WRONG, but you are being no different than these stereotypical christians. You are constantly pushing YOUR beliefs upon them, expecting them to suddenly go "ZOMG YOU'RE RIGHT I GUESS GOD DOESN'T REALLY EXIST."

Well, technically, from what I've learned, Christianity a religion that believes in the idea of missionaries and "spreading the word". At my church at least, we're supposed to go and "spread the word about God". Isn't this a sort of recruiting? And isn't it required (more or less) by the religion?