TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Zenith is a hard person to read. He is a chronic lowposter and d0 nihilist.

My experience with him is that he is better at faking reads that sound good, than kind of mirroring the emotions and mindset he should have as town though.

My initial reaction to the PR comment was bruh, "derp clear denied", what planet are you actually on, how can you have read my posts enough to want me off the table d0 and also not know what setup we are in, that doesn't make any sense.

Then, I was not expecting him to crash out and go off about how town is going to lose if that is all they focus on from him.

The funny thing is, if he is a wolf, he has put a lot into this narrative that it's a big deal that raeko is the one who was dead, and he would have been part of making that decision and then deciding this is how to capitalize on it. So for him to then end up saying she died because she's a PR, honestly is a harder derp to make as a wolf than town, which is why my initial reading of it was that he's either town or trying to get cheap town credit for saying something that's harder to say as a wolf. But the emotional reaction to being questioned on it, actually doesn't fit well with the latter in my opinion...so....

So there at least is an argument that exists that slip theory makes Zenith TOWN in this case.

Personally, I hate being in this rabbit hole and so I am trying to see if I can get a real read on this man based on something else, because holy shit.

I also have gone wrong so many times trying to force myself to get to a read too early...so...

I guess I started thinking about this more because you seem stuck and because he is who sun fan is voting, so I guess I'm contractually obligated to give my bad opinions.

I think I kind of know what you mean, about the read you gave right before you left too.

have you resolved on any of these, or is he still a ??? to you?

[roundbox]

The Votecount
DaBackpack (3) - star-crossed, bugkid666, the sun fan
_Zenith_ (1) - ShadoWolfe
the sun fan (1) - botchi246
Hakulyte (1) - _Zenith_
botchi246 (1) - Hakulyte

Unvote - FreezinIce
Not voting - DaBackpack, Hateandhatred, XelNya

[botchi246]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

can you ask botchi the same question because he won't answer me?

if this is in reference to the question about the info gained from the ben lynch:
we learned that sunfan absolutely knew he was town.
we know that ben wagon was taken advantage of by at least two wolves.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

that's a surprising NK
raeko wasn't anywhere near the most universally townread and there's no PRs so it feels... wrong?

on a reread, this feels weird to me. right after day start, it feels redundant and almost scripted reaction

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I mean, I /WAS/ trying to thunderdome him at the start of the day phase and then he was afk for like 40 hours and basically just handwaved all concerns as "I hope you guys see what I was trying to do" (I DO NOT) (there are you happy? i am maximum cringe right now i am so sorry)

it's quite good analysis of zenith
it's not enough in and of itself
i actually don't even what the conclusion is there, kind of null wolf lean?

is dbp even voting anybody?
what is happening?

slip theory??

I think reading over your posts in the last few pages made me realize I might just be a terrible person. I do realize that DBP has some legit baggage that needs to be addressed and even laid out what it means for me personally. But I mean...he's here. He's posting stuff. Some of that stuff I quite like, which is more than I can say for my other scumleans. Is it bad I want to give him a pass for today? Maybe I'm just riding off vibes a bit too much here.

If it makes you feel better if it's an actual thunderdome I'm voting DBP no question (which he probably realizes which is why he is parrying it. It would be suicide regardless of his alignment)

[the sun fan]

genuinely it is like Zenith, DBP and sven are all competing for my vote rn
zenith isn't even here but that is what it feels like
truly a strange position for me to be in on 2nd day phase

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by botchi246

we know that ben wagon was taken advantage of by at least two wolves.

how do you claim to know this?

[the sun fan]

from WHENCE

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I mean, I /WAS/ trying to thunderdome him at the start of the day phase and then he was afk for like 40 hours and basically just handwaved all concerns as "I hope you guys see what I was trying to do" (I DO NOT) (there are you happy? i am maximum cringe right now i am so sorry)

it's quite good analysis of zenith
it's not enough in and of itself
i actually don't even what the conclusion is there, kind of null wolf lean?

is dbp even voting anybody?
what is happening?

slip theory??

ok listen I'm sorry, I work out of... a building where I dont have internet access for 10 hours a day. I'm not trying to ghost you. I know it's frustrating but I'm not deliberately trying to be useless.

I'm trying to work through Zenith. HNH I dont think slipped, he's just wrong about how to play the game.

Zenith is null-wolf.
Xel is also maybe null-wolf, mostly because of Raeko
sunfan is probably town
you are probably town
freezin is null-town, he could be the wild card in this equation
shadow is null
botchi is stubborn, indignant town
HNH is null until he gives more ***personal*** insight about the game

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

how do you claim to know this?

Secret hack to find wolves. I was going to say maybe he subtracted his townleans from Bens wagon then I remembered he has everyone at null. Lol

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

how do you claim to know this?

yeah, "know" is ???????????

[ShadoWolfe]

back reading up

[ShadoWolfe]

holy crap a lot was posted
GUYS THE GAME EXISTS OUTSIDE OF EOD TOO YA KNOW THIS TYPE OF ACTIVITY WOULD BE NICE AT LEAST SPORADICALLY IN THE PHASE

[DaBackpack]

I will retract my strong town lean on bug. I really dont have a reason for it that is still relevant this phase

[the sun fan]

this entire game is a conspiracy to get star-crossed pissed off at 3:30 AM if she stays up past her bedtime, and pissed off at 9:30 AM if she goes to sleep at a good time

[botchi246]

well sunfan you are a town lean for me, so there are four left on the vote im pretty unsure of. and i dont think they would split up that much on d0 if they want to get someone gone

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

holy crap a lot was posted
GUYS THE GAME EXISTS OUTSIDE OF EOD TOO YA KNOW THIS TYPE OF ACTIVITY WOULD BE NICE AT LEAST SPORADICALLY IN THE PHASE

SORRY MAN I'M TRAPPED IN A HERMETICALLY SEALED BOX FOR OVER HALF OF MY WAKING LIFE

[botchi246]

i think by the way i need to unvote

[DaBackpack]

Zenith

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by botchi246

well sunfan you are a town lean for me, so there are four left on the vote im pretty unsure of. and i dont think they would split up that much on d0 if they want to get someone gone

genuinely a kind of gross misuse of the word "know" in that case
I'll hold steady here but like
that looks like quite a bold claim as you worded it

[bugkid666]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

on Zenith, there's two major contradictions I have issues with after reading through his posts and their context.

the first:

then, in response to sunfan asking why zenith voted him (other than vengeance):


I don't think these two can both be genuine and come from a town mindset. "I didn't know who to vote. I was just building a town circle." isn't compatible with actively campaigning against sunfan and threatening/intimidating others to do the same


the second:

then

then


These cannot all be honest explanations of the same event. bugkid called it a crash out, but the way two contradictory explanations, each that contradict the original intent, are put forward to explain what would've been a simple mistake by town!Zenith does not add up.

All it would've taken to honestly and genuinely explain the original mistake would've been "oops, nvm I forgot this was a vanilla game!"

This alone is telling. I think the only way the multiple layers of dishonesty can come from a town player is if they're so ego-driven that they can't, at any cost, admit the mistake. I guess that level of ego could also explain why town!Zenith would be willing to try to drive a revenge lynch with no real read behind it, but I think that's a lot to swallow and I find it hard to believe the two together can both come from town. Lynch All Liars.

also, assuming Zenith==Wolf makes this post:

a very planned entrance to D1 after NKing Raeko. the "itinerary" basically creates an easy series of posts to make and look like "solving" is happening, when in reality a Raeko ISO does little to solve the game. Her reads could've been 100% accurate or 100% worthless and we'd never know.

this whole post almost makes me want to vote zenith it's so convincing