TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

shado can u tell me why you were never voting DBP last eod
I'm sure it is somewhere (I promise I am ISOing botchi)

he felt town the way he came in and swaggered around calling out shit. I wrote a bunch about him vs my expectations earlier but what I don't think I said is that he put my worries about YOU down in a way that I agreed with, even about potential partnership with ben. I like star's analysis of him now and in retrospect I probably gave him a pass too soon, but it was D0 and I liked what I was seeing even if it might've come from a mixture of vibe, meta, and confirmation bias against wolf!sunfan worlds

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

botchi let me talk I guess about my progression with you, maybe it might help you find me town if you are town, which I am finding more and more plausible from this iso.

I won't belabor this point too much, but it has been many years since we played (aside from last game), and so it becomes tougher. It feels like everyone up to and maybe even including roundbox appears to be struggling with this (joke).

for a good while, I didn't have you as much of anything, and that in and of itself was remarkable, given I think I can read you better than most.
anyways

#401 was the first post that I had a medium-strength opinion on, and I still kind of don't think it looks good.

You (correctly) call my quoted post bait, but it *feels* like you're speaking from the perspective of a wolf there. Only a wolf should be looking out for bait like that, it doesn't make sense to me why town!botchi would've been looking out for that.
Additionally, (and I am only noticing this now), you have me as town even though you think I was baiting.

I began to have you as scum, and I did think both because of a real feeling, and also because I expected you to react strongly to it. Honestly, I'm just stupid here, you reacted as strongly as you should have based on what my meta read SHOULD have been from last game, but at the time, I was a mistaken doo-doo head and was wrong.

I **DO** care a lot about meta. It... was about all I really had on you, especially on mobile at the time. It shouldn't feel unfamiliar to you on me, honestly.

I know now that I was wrong. I know now that I was overestimating the strength of what I expected your reactions to be, and they are appropriate. You felt higher energy in my memory

Honestly, not even joking, given I knew you were basically immediately stoned in the last game, I really should have remembered more accurately. Obviously you're not going to be high energy after your entrance last game, I hope you can forgive me for not connecting those dots, even though they were right there.

Anyways
I thought bugkid had been lacking chutzpah last phase, but I thought they were trending upwards, and it was not a good place for me to vote at EOD
I thought ben was town
I had been baiting people with star, but I thought it was a terrible place to go
I couldn't really follow raeko's read on xel because I thought xel was town for the way he talked to raeko
I felt like no one was listening to me on you

so like
I really had to choose between DBP and you, and for a moment, I was voting DBP, which I think was probably better in a like
cosmic sense
anyways, freezin indicated to me that if I didn't like either the ben or star kill, that you were the way forward, and that's what I really needed to try and make happen

I do feel foolish now, even if you are a wolf, because my reasoning was ass-backwards.

It wasn't until I actually tried to bury you earlier today that I realized how wrong I was when I looked back at last game

I know you don't care for meta, or longer posts, but I care about both of those things, and maybe it is just some culture clash here.

I like your frankness here, and when star says that she feels like haku doesn't know who the wolves are, that's kind of my read on you right now.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think that I want to kill botchi today, in short. I bet my other ISOs will make me feel more strongly about killing other people.

The way botchi openly put his hands up and said "Idk what I'm doing man, I'm trying my best here, but I feel outplayed by everyone else" feels a lot less likely to come from wolf botchi. I had no idea you had been reading the thread that much. Is it really true?

Idk, the way he voted me makes me find him a little bit villagery as well if I factor in that he hates meta. My read there stunk so
it makes enough sense. He has been aghast and I don't really hate it

please don't vote me to get me to attempt to townread you, though

this is the first longpost from you this game (including the two "radical honesty" ones) that has left me with a feeling like "he's really town"
I agree that botchi has felt really genuine this phase and agree that he shouldn't be a wagon

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Hi, this comes off really formal and stilted, are you like ok?

honestly, no, not really

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

honestly, no, not really

damn
do you wanna talk about it?

[the sun fan]

damn this day phase is beginning to feel like the EOD is gonna suck again

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

damn this day phase is beginning to feel like the EOD is gonna suck again

it doesn't have to. I like both wagons currently being voted. wanna talk?

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Based on last game, I'm expecting you to sit back and pick up some key moment in the game where your input will matter and then something will happen based on that information.

So, whoever is not you should look into this moment that you will take at some point and try to figure out if it's coming from the right place.

if Sven is a wolf, Haku predicted his EOD all the way back here
bro if yall can see the future we can just end this charade like
genuinely this is like the professor in that meme video where all his students know everything

how do you keep knowing everything before it happens???

[bugkid666]

i don't think I'm going to end up moving my vote

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

it doesn't have to. I like both wagons currently being voted. wanna talk?

I don't know that I have an immediate question for you, but sure, we should

[the sun fan]

holy shit sven may post???
is it real???

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I secretly want to vote someone in the bottom 5 posters at EoD just because it would be so easy to coast this game and wait for town to self-destruct.

ok haku you're gonna have to calm the fuck down
I meme'd this post in real time but genuinely it is probabyl what is happening

I don't even have anything funny to say anymore (I'm isoing sven rn I promise)

[the sun fan]

I ISO'd sven and aside from there being some thru-lines in his reads
I don't really have much to report

I still dislike the EOD post as much as I did before, and I suppose there is another thing I am waiting on after all that I didn't notice before

[XelNya]

I did a very quick reread of zenith / dbp

I'm a bit lost in that I am actually currently accepting both(?) current wagons, and my opinion never aligns this well with a majority like this, so like

would one of you two idiots like to save yourself or something anytime soon

like

do we need to get out the wheel, strap you both in and start throwing knives

[Hateandhatred]

Sorry guys, college inc. I'm here until EOD now though!

I went through the thread and I intend to go over voting interactions from d0 and try to figure something out

Originally Posted by star-crossed

"has to be" - do you really believe it's that telling? Because what I kind of get from this post is that you think other things about what sun fan and I are doing are actually more important. I guess I am concerned about it in terms of it being an excuse to go against Ben, as well, if I am right in being apprehensive that you are overstating its importance relative to how much you actually dug into it.

It was d0, I was definitely not putting that much importance on it. I just thought the pressure added up weirdly at that point in time. There was no one suspicious in particular, it just looked like "if I was wolf, I'd put a vote in that direction", and thought it was good to note.

Originally Posted by bugkid666

the reason i didnt respond to it is for pretty much the exact reason you mentioned above in bold. i have gotten too defensive in the past and that has put a lot of suspicion on me. i also didnt feel there was any real content in what hatred said about me that i could meaningfully respond to, especially since he even admitted himself that his suspicion was likely due to differing playstyles.

reflecting back on it, its less that i read him as super towny and more that i definitely didnt read him as super scummy. i'm about neutral on him at the moment. i will say him not voting is trending him down for me

You're right, and like haku said here

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I think the only reason I'm defending bugkid is because I'm used to see bugkid flip early in games as town and it's getting to my mind.

It's really messing with me too. It's been a couple games where I hate your guts (not you as a person, obviously) early on where you're the first person that makes me go "woah hold on, something is not right here" and then I'm just completely wrong and it's not helpful. Like you said yourself elsewhere, it's a playstyle thing, and like I said in my post about you, I'm trying to look inwards, because I still don't townread you at all. This isn't d0 though, so I'll need to read d0 again and iso you at this point

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

@H&H
If you can look into the ben interactions for the "info" you wanted, that'd be great.

Will do, although I wasn't hunting any particular info about Ben. It's more like, Ben was in a web of interactions that affected most players. If you flip him, then you can look at those interactions under a new light assuming he's town, and if not... well that's just good, obviously. That's why I didn't like Botchi, it wouldn't help us as much (though that is very different this phase as botchi talked a lot more with everyone. Speaking of which...

Originally Posted by botchi246

i was present for eod, but i was in the process of writing a response plus my vote, when i got distracted by the clusterf that happened at eod.

This sounds like "EOD affected my voting strategy not because of where the game was going but because I didn't know how to blend in". Scumradar is beeping

Originally Posted by star-crossed

- My brain currently likes this narrative of one supervillain wolf because I am townreading most of the people I know well (I am most sus of DBP rn but if I'm wrong there then Shado maybe??) and then decent chance of one in Xel/H&H of disappointing wolf who is too pansy to vote for me and too pansy to do their own thing if it's H&H, and then that leaves the last one as someone off wagon or somebody I am wrong on in my town reads.

There is no way you think xel or I are that wolf, what the fuck star, I actually want you to elaborate on this, because this makes no sense. We've been talking about the relevancy of meta, but this you should just know makes no sense

Originally Posted by botchi246

here guys, this is where im at right now:
star: town (universally townread at this point i think), yall could consider this a copout beacuse so many other people are reading town. usually i do not like to have to read long drawn out posts, but the way these are written, the logic is easy to follow, and i find myself agreeing more than disagree, which could be a product of just how this game is going postwise/ activity wise

haku: is def town lean, i very much like the way haku is playing right now (i know you have your vote on me right now, im trying to do right by you), its like i can look right into his brain, his play has been honest to me

freezin: ur at null, edge on town. freezin sheepnig d0 on sunfan rubbed me the wrong way. id like to expand on this soon

shado: null, ver close to leaning, im sorry i havent got back to you about the vote nonsense, i will make that clear today, if it turns out, that once again im mistaken, i well read it out regardless, jsut like before

zenith: null, about to lean, going to go back through posts, i dont think there is a whole lot, but i really dont see zenith pushing either way

xel: once again i need to look through them, but at this time, another null, not even sure about leaning

bugkid: null no lean, need to read through again

hate: null no lean, need to read through again

dbp: null leaning wolf, i def need to reread , lean wolf because of interesting end of d0 and start of d1, so reactive (reactive is wolfy, proactive is town in this case)

sunfan: wolf lean, i kinda think you are in the middle for a lot of people, i could be wrong, i mean i appreciate you backpedaling on your read of me to take more into account, but would you normally do this? and that wagon at d0, felt very much like you were diverting from ben(understadable cuz of ur townread) just to save his skin(which u were) but why me? why not dbp or hate or xel, about the same level of activity? you said it was because of a meta read. so my meta read trumped anything else???

... So you null everyone (with some asterisks), except sunfan? I actually think sunfan is playing a very normal town game for him right now.

[ShadoWolfe]

on Zenith, there's two major contradictions I have issues with after reading through his posts and their context.

the first:

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

anyone trusting sunfan right now will be scrutinized come next phase

then, in response to sunfan asking why zenith voted him (other than vengeance):

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Vengeance is a fancy word for not knowing who to vote because all I did was basically focus on building a town circle last phase so I don't have any concrete wolf feelings (though, after Iso'ing Raeko I am now suspicious) and I still need my lick back for your play against me last game. Hold that vote homie
not anymore tho I need my vote

I don't think these two can both be genuine and come from a town mindset. "I didn't know who to vote. I was just building a town circle." isn't compatible with actively campaigning against sunfan and threatening/intimidating others to do the same


the second:

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Yo, still catching up on this most recent page of stuff, but I just wanted to say poor raeko man. It's so out of left field that I'm fairly confident someone thought they got a PR read and went for it so I'm sure we can find something like that in her iso.

then

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Not that there is a PR, but they must've felt like she was as threatening as one, or they think by killing her it'd implicate some random VT, or they could've RNG'd but either way I'm not going to spend more time explaining my misspoken moment or theorycrafting why they killed her.

Time is better spent on why she died

then

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

I never meant to type PR in my post there, mentally as I was typing that I was racking my brain on why raeko would die there and I asked myself if I missed a soft somewhere and I want to say that's why I had PR on the mind.

In hindsight there's a gaping hole in my foot, but I'll take it in stride as it's not going to stop me from solving and continuing forward lol.

These cannot all be honest explanations of the same event. bugkid called it a crash out, but the way two contradictory explanations, each that contradict the original intent, are put forward to explain what would've been a simple mistake by town!Zenith does not add up.

All it would've taken to honestly and genuinely explain the original mistake would've been "oops, nvm I forgot this was a vanilla game!"

This alone is telling. I think the only way the multiple layers of dishonesty can come from a town player is if they're so ego-driven that they can't, at any cost, admit the mistake. I guess that level of ego could also explain why town!Zenith would be willing to try to drive a revenge lynch with no real read behind it, but I think that's a lot to swallow and I find it hard to believe the two together can both come from town. Lynch All Liars.

also, assuming Zenith==Wolf makes this post:

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Yo, still catching up on this most recent page of stuff, but I just wanted to say poor raeko man. It's so out of left field that I'm fairly confident someone thought they got a PR read and went for it so I'm sure we can find something like that in her iso. I know I forgot to breadcrumb a little before EoD so I'm interested to see if she left some form of legacy in her near-eod posts.

I also want to just outright say my itinerary this phase, which is to iso raeko immediately, and then from there I want to scope out the wagons. Ben might've also left some legacy breadcrumbs somewhere so I want to take a closer look at what he was cooking (or not cooking since y'all took him out back). After that I should probably organize a reads list cause I haven't done one yet, and then idk this is as far as my current planning goes.

rip raeko (the meta lives on!)

a very planned entrance to D1 after NKing Raeko. the "itinerary" basically creates an easy series of posts to make and look like "solving" is happening, when in reality a Raeko ISO does little to solve the game. Her reads could've been 100% accurate or 100% worthless and we'd never know.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

freezin this is ur reminder to do ur daily login to mahjong souls

I fumbled that a while back, I'm currently at 7 days out for 30.

[FreezinIce]

Dont think I want to vote DBP here

[FreezinIce]

I guess I'm kicking the can down the road for that audit of his eod but I feel like voting between my other scumleans is a better plan for today

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Dont think I want to vote DBP here

This kind of makes me want that lynch more

[Hateandhatred]

I'm making a post analyzing d0 votes, but here's something interesting.

Due to the hours of activity of some players, you see some people ping-ponging for a while at times in the thread. I somehow can't imagine these players being wolves "playing alone". Do you guys agree?