TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

[the sun fan]

I feel compelled to say like
I don't think I am that good at reading Freezin but like

his list is basically exactly my list, with haku lower and xel higher (and with zenith actually included)

I don't think I've been too overt with where I stand, maybe I have but like

idk
that might be the most I've ever been on the same page with someone, ever

I also wonder how much deviation there is in that from star/haku/shado
like are we all just on the same pages??

I mean if we're just the GOAT village after killing ben because fuck him, then we're the GOAT village
it just doesn't feel like that's the whole game

I guess that's a problem for future sunfan

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

The most reliable policy for detecting liars is to compare their words vs. their actions. This is what led me to Ben in the first place. Then, it was the scattershot of reads and potentialities that felt like giving himself cover in case he needed to pivot. I didn't have a baseline for Ben, so I wasn't able to compare his behaviors to a "town Ben".

I'll admit I didn't read much into the Nagito comment, I don't think I even parsed what he was trying to communicate there.

I was wrong and I must own that, but I hope at the very least people understand the rationale behind my thinking.

I must admit that I am suspicious of Sunfan's vote switch last EoD. On the face of it, voting for someone you "know" is town is baffling from a town PoV. I believe he's addressed it today--- something about phoneposting and wanting to prevent a CFD on another player because he didn't have a votecount. But doing that while also saying "you guys are wrong about this" feels like an attempt at distancing. (It literally is distancing--- that could be NAI here though. The "I told you so" attitude could be towny, or it could be "having my cake and eating it too." The latter scenario requires us to look at who he might be defending)

Most everything else he's done this game, given that Ben is town, feels towny. I will have to ISO him to resolve this contradiction.

From memory, Sunfan is categorically against bussing, or at least lynching teammates as a distancing strategy.

-------------------------

I have to head to work and won't have internet access until I'm back. I will try to leave early today and make up for my poor performance so far. One thing I would suggest checking out is the wagonomics of last phase and trying to get a sense of "were any wolves actually in danger during EoD?"

Hi, this comes off really formal and stilted, are you like ok?
I get that you wanted to give something before you are back, but ultimately, if there is a town you there to find, I need you to have actually read to find it.

Originally Posted by botchi246

here guys, this is where im at right now:
star: town (universally townread at this point i think), yall could consider this a copout beacuse so many other people are reading town. usually i do not like to have to read long drawn out posts, but the way these are written, the logic is easy to follow, and i find myself agreeing more than disagree, which could be a product of just how this game is going postwise/ activity wise

haku: is def town lean, i very much like the way haku is playing right now (i know you have your vote on me right now, im trying to do right by you), its like i can look right into his brain, his play has been honest to me

freezin: ur at null, edge on town. freezin sheepnig d0 on sunfan rubbed me the wrong way. id like to expand on this soon

shado: null, ver close to leaning, im sorry i havent got back to you about the vote nonsense, i will make that clear today, if it turns out, that once again im mistaken, i well read it out regardless, jsut like before

zenith: null, about to lean, going to go back through posts, i dont think there is a whole lot, but i really dont see zenith pushing either way

xel: once again i need to look through them, but at this time, another null, not even sure about leaning

bugkid: null no lean, need to read through again

hate: null no lean, need to read through again

dbp: null leaning wolf, i def need to reread , lean wolf because of interesting end of d0 and start of d1, so reactive (reactive is wolfy, proactive is town in this case)

sunfan: wolf lean, i kinda think you are in the middle for a lot of people, i could be wrong, i mean i appreciate you backpedaling on your read of me to take more into account, but would you normally do this? and that wagon at d0, felt very much like you were diverting from ben(understadable cuz of ur townread) just to save his skin(which u were) but why me? why not dbp or hate or xel, about the same level of activity? you said it was because of a meta read. so my meta read trumped anything else???

Uhhh... ok. Some paragraphs for you (I'm sorry.)

So I've been trying to ask you since yesterday, to please go back and read to give me more sauce. So if you are going to make time for it now, that is good.

You said that raeko's and ben's flips would be some of the most helpful to you yesterday. This is my second time asking you specifically, what did ben's flip give you? Because I am having trouble seeing a progression there at all really.

The thing is, we know Ben is town. You seem to have me listed as your top town (although you sound like you have more conviction in your Haku read.) So if you assume I am town, and if you are operating from yourself being town, then basically no wolves had a real wagon on them yesterday. That matters because then it means that wolves do not have too much of a stake in any of the votes, other than they do not want to contradict themselves. If you operate from that standpoint, then you can try to look around at who behind the surface is actually content with the status quo, and who seemed like they don't know who is which alignment. In my mind, sun fan was actually very invested in how the end of the day was going and invested in discussing other possibilities.

However, despite that logic, you seem to be attaching a lot of importance to whether people voted you specifically yesterday (with Freezin and with sun fan.) I am wondering if this is strategic because of you being essentially afraid to make enemies of people who are not already against you, because you do not want to be voted off. It is not necessarily only a wolf role PM that can make you survivalist in that way, and I don't even know if that is your actual motivation for it, but if you are actually town and it is preventing you from being able to critically analyse anybody, then it is a problem.

You being such a question mark and not really giving much in terms of how the flips have helped you make sense of anything, makes the game harder for us in terms of analysing the day end, because if you are a wolf (or I am a wolf), then some of the prior logic is different.

Is there something I can do to help you?

Like I could try to explain my sun fan read to you more to be honest, but I actually do not really want to stop you from going and looking into the people that you want to look into, that is more important really.

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by XelNya

I've spoiled because this post is fairly long. It's not a "thoughts on every post" and some reads adjust without specific mention.

--33--
621 is an ok post
- "I think it was unlikely that ben would avoid being at least somewhat solidly scumread in the next phase, at minimum. I think star will be heavily scrutinized today, and her alignment more positively determined."
I know we like, are reading star so differently here, is there a specific like, mannerism you can direct my deer in the headlighted ass to because I am MISSING SOMETHING ya'll see and I don't
because I spent all of D0 have star as the unspoken ride or die (if me defend posting wasn't the indicator of this- I dunno what to tell you.)
Like what did I miss
625 is fine
626 why so paranoid
629 feels like a carbonated drink going down a little wrong
634 i'm bit jarred still on the star hate this game, so this post is a negative for me (has hindsight of other current day posts, do account for this.)
--34--
650 this post super bothers me still, because I cannot in history of games i've been in / skimmed I've seen dbp be this sad drunk posting. It's like world's most obvious bait to jump him for steering / making the main case.
651 This post is super dense in PRODUCTIVE town posting.
653 The contribution i'd make to this push is that dbp has gone from "charismatic bravado" to pouting drunk. The contrast to the actions / results doesn't steer anywhere and feels like a barrier against a harder push.
656 I was with you till the last sentence, but that'd be more semantical than a point of argument.
660 I do not like this agreement with bugkid here but i'll revist if need be later.

- Wanna state the only solid town lean here for me today is star, and haku has some points, but hasn't hit threshhold quite yet. Sunfan is a little above null but barely enough to note. dbp stonks are inversed gas prices rn.

-- 35 --
667 / 668 I find myself in agreement here, though, not for the bottom part of haku's post, and more similar to freezin's.
676 I wanna touch on this later~
685 I like this post a little less? It has me in the first half, loses me in the second because the implications of the kill are important, on par with the "why" because frankly let's be real
that kill is so notable, that enough people are surprised by it
what that tells me is some degree of these:
- she was killed for where she was looking around
- she was killed for her steering of town being a problem
- the information taken by taking her out is valuable to the scum team
- framing I guess, i'm the wrong person to toss this out, but let's just be fair here
- the nature of the kill ununites the town

If I throw my speculation to the void it's 3 and 5. I couldn't explain 5, but I feel we're sort of there.
687 I assign no value to this post, and I don't think other people should either.
694 I disagree but w.e.

- Star still leaned town
- sunfan stonks down a little
- zenith is... null but can trend a solid 90 degrees down easily
- bugkid is null, could go either way, i am torn on wanting to iso them / amlazy
- Haku maintains current read

--36--
716 this vote push is solid regardless of my feels either way
--37--
719 your whole post is kind of a circle jerk and I hate you for it
--38--
724 It's hard to explain the Zenith pushes other than
ya'll feel like you're creating a nothing burger because the concept in his post is fine
727 stonks down
730 YOU ACTUALLY CARE. YOU JUST ASKED ABOUT IT, THE EXPLANATION IS IN HIS POST AND IN THE ORIGINAL FUCK UP POST
DO YOU NOT READ
DOOOOOOO YOUUUUUUUUU
735
- I agree with the framejob point only as the overarching premise for the kill, and not that it doesn't contribute (I feel you meant this but I'm gonna point it out.)
- : l
- the rest of this post is fair
740 I take issue with your framing of me because I know for a fact by now you know I literally made a post defending you
you can't say I was too pansy to vote you / do my own thing, I literally was saying with defending you (and later in my ben vote) I felt you were town AT THE VERY LEAST IF YOU ARE HARD OF READING ABILITY town enough to not be on my see gone list
and it's worse when you account for just how many people wanted to see you go for a while
this is your first negative post to me, and it feels gross because it's actually about me
BUT THE REST IS SOLID so am conflicted

- Star stonk down slightly (town still.)
- sunfan stonk is holding (null trending town.)
- haku stonk holds (null trending town, harder to change because of Haku mentioning they'll be fairly afk.)
- dbp stonk holds (scum leaning)

--38--
745 (btw thanks for grabbing the vote counts)
Of the 5 votes theres a few things I should glean into skimming through how dbp enters the ben wagon, and how shado joins it, I need to reaquint myself with it, and hatred deserves a mention but frankly I've got zero idea how to read intot hat so I'd rather focus on where I camn MAYBE provide value. (homework for tomorrow.)
sunfan's original response is enough to not make me feel going there is productive, but i'd entertain it if his posts trend downwards
757 the noncommital hewre is noteworthy if what I said above happens, more a note for myself than anything
760 my contribution to this statement is I guess, if you see some of my comments above and it changes anything for you let me know? I see what you're saying though, I wanna just town and move on but I feel like it's a disservice to the issues caused by last eod to do so, even if the explanation is fine / makes sense.

--39--
769
- I don't quite like the (what feels to me) grace read on freezin, I agree he's not been scummy but the needle is like, twitch but not moving, and based off your other content, it feels a bit weak here
- gregglepoo read is fair
- haku read is fine
- I don't quite mesh with bugkid yet, can be convinced though (will be skimming later, I don't see solving their slot as priority though. I am admittedly hung-up a bit on yesterday, so do grain of salt bias assume here.)
- dbp i want to see how this read progresses tomorrow so I've got no comment

I kind of sit in this state by this point:

(Higher = More town. Below line = Null.)

star-crossed
the sun fan
Hakulyte
FreezinIce (Am very open to bumping up higher, would consider above sunfan)
bugkid666
_Zenith_ (You could almost interchange Bug and Zenith RN for me, but bug sits higher for sheer content reasons, and it would require an iso to adjust more.)
DaBackpack
-----
ShadoWolfe
botchi246
Hateandhatred

I've left myself out for obvious reasons, but in the interest of contributing more:

If I pushed at myself for a moment though:
- It's worth thinking on if the Raeko kill is motivated by my slot being how it is.
- It's worth critique for the benguin flip being bad, and being one of the early voters it's totally fair.
- I think everyone else would maybe read into my post defending star, but I don't know the utility, but being my biggest contribution other than benguin vote / light? push, it feels worthy of mention.

I think this is the best food for thought I can offer.

- I want to reread shado a bit.
- I need to reread dbp and make a formal push if my read goes what the early points of today inspire me to think about d0 in 20/20 hindsight.

(I also fucked up my page number at some point so it might be wrong past like, 36.)

I'm going to goddamn bed now.

some quick things:

I'm not sure what paranoia you're seeing in #626; I don't think I was paranoid at all there. If anything, I'm declaring that I'm not paranoid. idk. are you quoting the right post # here???

god yeah #629 hit me really weird, like that question from Haku I thought was obvious without him asking, and if anyone else asked me that, I'd probably sus them more.

I'm not sure what you're saying about #653, are you saying that DBP's behavior makes him harder for you to vote?

You call my push on Zenith fine, but when Zenith responds to me, you're like "this push on Zenith feels conjured out of thin air"
which I find doubly objectionable?? I outlined my vote pretty well I might say.

whose stonks are down for #727
you really should be clearer here; we can't know whether you mean bugkid or zenith
and on that subject, I don't get why you single out bugkid here
shado, bugkid, myself and also possibly freezin I'm not going to go check were all confused by zenith's post, maybe even star too. Zenith's explanation was and is objectively confusing, Shado is of the mind that Zenith is just lying still so like
what do you think of that? Bugkid's opinion here is probably the least interesting one to talk about.

same with #760
who do you want to call town here; Shado or myself

I'm not sure I understand the strength behind your townread of star, you seem critical of her and her reads at times but she's been the top town of yours since last phase to the point where u try and mog me about it

I'm not sure I get why you have Shado where you do
I guess it answers my question about #760, but like
why is shado a scumread, is it because everyone else is townier?

other than that, I don't want to seem like I am too critical of this post, I like it.
I like the fact that you group 667/668 together, like that feels like a really cohesive thought that wolves might struggle to try and piece together.

in short, this just kinda feels like a xel town post
I'd like to see more posts in real time than engage with this formatting quite frankly

my 2nd monitor is for happy things, not more werewolf and u made me use it for extra werewolf and I don't like that, stop it

but do keep posting like this, please

[the sun fan]

@shado
idk that sven is coming back in time, I could sit on this for another 90 minutes, I don't really see much point and I want to get onto other things and not forget about this later so

entering today, he was my top scum, and I was WAITING
for him to start doing ANY kind of analysis on the ben flip, since that was his crux of voting for ben (and not voting for botchi)
and obviously he hadn't done that yet.

I fucking hate his 2nd to last post yesterday, like it gave me genuine flashbacks to a game I had died early in where I watched wolves pile votes onto a villager, like it feels the grossest out of all of the ben votes to me

DBP at least has some plausible deniablity, right? Sven has none at all and ESPECIALLY if botchi is a wolf, I think sven looks horrible, which is one of a few worlds that I think the game is like
not JUST feeling like, but REALLY REALLY feeling like at this point.

it feels like all the villagers have come together and been villagery (another potential star prediction??????????? did not realize that before this post) and the wolves haven't
it almost definitely isn't that way, but star is probably right that there's just one supervillain that town will have to catch, and that there's 2 wolves in everyone's "would kill" pile

it really fucking sucks that sven hasn't posted more since yesterday, maybe we will be talking about leetic soon, I would welcome that.

[ShadoWolfe]

I'm here til I get off work, then I have a 90ish minute commute home around 6pm server time

gonna try to ISO the slots I have mental blanks on and go from there

sunfan your hateandhatred thing would be nice at some point

[the sun fan]

I don't know if I made this clear
if sven failed to talk about the ben flip in a substantial and informative way, I was turbo voting him and imploring everyone else to follow me

because he would've killed ben for info and done nothing with the alleged info we gained (btw gee I wonder why no one else seems to really be doing that, kinda seems like infolynches are cringe)

idk why typing this post annoyed me, but it did

I'm gonna take a short break and iso botchi when I get back
we should try to figure out who the best kill in the remaining pool is, first and foremost

lastly, how backwards do you think star's reads are now, shado
do you object to me wording the question this way? if so, how would you word it? (and then answer it)
and if you do not think she is backwards, at what point did this change (if ever)

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

sunfan your hateandhatred thing would be nice at some point

hahahahaha

[star-crossed]

Ok even though I read the entire thing this morning, it is almost as time consuming to go back through again bc the formatting makes it ass to see what you are responding to. But I cannot complain too much because you are so much more locked in than I realised.

Originally Posted by XelNya

I know we like, are reading star so differently here, is there a specific like, mannerism you can direct my deer in the headlighted ass to because I am MISSING SOMETHING ya'll see and I don't
because I spent all of D0 have star as the unspoken ride or die (if me defend posting wasn't the indicator of this- I dunno what to tell you.)
Like what did I miss

Hmmm, you are kind of both right.

I didn't feel fully in my groove on d0, I felt like I could not quite articulate my reads on people in the way I am used to being able to. Also I was having to spend too much time litigating umm...nitpicking/reading comprehension issues with my entrance post. I was also like, phoneposting while very tired at times or around people, and it was d0, yada yada, but my heart was in the right place.

Then reading the end of day back, made me feel like the protagonist of a bad anime or something, and turned me back into my old self.

Originally Posted by XelNya

740 I take issue with your framing of me because I know for a fact by now you know I literally made a post defending you
you can't say I was too pansy to vote you / do my own thing, I literally was saying with defending you (and later in my ben vote) I felt you were town AT THE VERY LEAST IF YOU ARE HARD OF READING ABILITY town enough to not be on my see gone list
and it's worse when you account for just how many people wanted to see you go for a while
this is your first negative post to me, and it feels gross because it's actually about me
BUT THE REST IS SOLID so am conflicted

It is a bit oversimplified for comedy/simplicity, in that if you are a wolf you chose to read me as town to begin with. Obviously your situation is a little different than say HNH, in that you had already given a stance against Ben and favouring me before those ended up being the wagon picks, and you did follow through, while HNH could have done basically whatever he wanted because all he had talked about before was Bug and Haku. It is my cross to bear to figure out who is pocketing me and who actually got there the right way. It is kind of sweet, that you want the credit from me though, it makes me want to believe you.

Originally Posted by XelNya

685 I like this post a little less? It has me in the first half, loses me in the second because the implications of the kill are important, on par with the "why" because frankly let's be real
that kill is so notable, that enough people are surprised by it
what that tells me is some degree of these:
- she was killed for where she was looking around
- she was killed for her steering of town being a problem
- the information taken by taking her out is valuable to the scum team
- framing I guess, i'm the wrong person to toss this out, but let's just be fair here
- the nature of the kill ununites the town

If I throw my speculation to the void it's 3 and 5. I couldn't explain 5, but I feel we're sort of there.

Yes 5 is of particular interest to me too

Originally Posted by XelNya

769
- I don't quite like the (what feels to me) grace read on freezin, I agree he's not been scummy but the needle is like, twitch but not moving, and based off your other content, it feels a bit weak here

I get this to an extent but I feel he just has consistency going for him that makes what he is doing harder to fake than what other people are doing. He is like night and day from his last wolf performance where almost every post made me do this face . I don't actually know if he should be top of my list but that is a problem for later on in my opinion. I also I guess forgot to mention, I did find his end of day genuine, I think he would have trouble being that active and straightforward under the circumstances he was claiming to be in as a wolf.

The Zenith and Bugkid commentary probably helps me the most.

This is maybe the single highest effort post I have ever seen from you, I respect it.

[botchi246]

like i said when i get home, im gonna do a little more work on this.

blatant honesty:
i dont know what im doing in this game. seems like yall are outplaying me, even the ones with low post count.
i have read the thread at least 6 times today, and im in a hole trying to put 2 and 2 together.
just feel like an ass
is it the game setup? is it just how the thread has been flowing? fk idk, just not vibing

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

lastly, how backwards do you think star's reads are now, shado
do you object to me wording the question this way? if so, how would you word it? (and then answer it)
and if you do not think she is backwards, at what point did this change (if ever)

your wording is fine because it's her wording, but I guess I don't feel like I ever thought her reads were backwards, I just never really considered them as solutions beyond using them to help me read HER. you have to remember this is my first game back in years and I honestly feel like I've lost something considerable as far as solving goes. it's hard to explain, but the "spark" in going back and re-reading ad nauseum to check for inconsistencies and forming evidence-based objective reads is GONE. I think there's a couple of reasons for that, including this intense brain fog I've had for the last week that makes me feel like I'm constantly floating and some life and work stuff, but the desire to put in EFFORT is not present. to counter it productively, I've kind of tried to rely on feeling out genuineness vs spuriousness in my first or second read of thread and then broadly piecing those feelings together, but the end result is a lack of confidence in my reads vs how it used to feel and a lack of like real evidence for a lot of feelings beyond just trying to point at the thing that made me feel a certain way and explain how I got there as best as I can. the lack of confidence I alluded to before when I was talking about how I for the life of me couldn't come up with a direction for yesterday's lynch despite feeling like I could've steered it if I wanted to. so I've tried to counter that too by finding clear towns that I could kind of lock in and work from as a basis of some sort of PoE, but I end up second guessing a bit and it prevents me from forming clear worlds. it's also a little upsetting that some of the slots I mentally draw blanks on are SO inactive that the host has more posts than them. I guess I got unaccustomed to the feeling after so long, but mostly having the same few voices in thread outside of EoD makes me feel like I'm hitting a wall. I know I need to properly go back and ISO slots and build a world, but it's just been hard to push myself to do it and much easier to talk to people and try to feel them out real time

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by botchi246

like i said when i get home, im gonna do a little more work on this.

blatant honesty:
i dont know what im doing in this game. seems like yall are outplaying me, even the ones with low post count.
i have read the thread at least 6 times today, and im in a hole trying to put 2 and 2 together.
just feel like an ass
is it the game setup? is it just how the thread has been flowing? fk idk, just not vibing

dude I feel you

[roundbox]

The Votecount
DaBackpack (2) - star-crossed, bugkid666
_Zenith_ (2) - the sun fan, ShadoWolfe
the sun fan (1) - botchi246
Hakulyte (1) - _Zenith_
botchi246 (1) - Hakulyte

Unvote - FreezinIce
Not voting - DaBackpack, Hateandhatred, XelNya

[the sun fan]

I guess this is the time for blatant honesty
my drive is definitely lower, too

I hope neither of you feel like your work is in vain

[the sun fan]

shado this is one hell of a rewind and I am mid botchi iso and this has nothing to do with botchi but like I really don't know how you grouped ben as my most likely partner

can u explain how you thought that at the time? I get I was defending him, but that wasn't anything new
your top town was also townreading him (I know she wasn't present, but it was clear) and I know that reads are just vehicles for reading other people or whatever

and I know I've talked myself down halfway from this already but

how could I have been with ben I find it... a tough pill to swallow even given you've (very honestly) stated that you felt cooked at EOD (I did too just in a different way)

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by botchi246

I just like to point out connections. It helps when I look back on my posts.
Sunfan and Ben buddies are different than Raeko and Zenith buddies too.
The former being like friends and the other giving off an older brother younger sister vibe

can you give an example of how, during one of your rereads, you were helped by how you pointed out a connection? that might help me a lot

[bugkid666]

sort of skimmed the updates from today but my brain is fuzzy. tonight is eod yes?

[the sun fan]

freezin this is ur reminder to do ur daily login to mahjong souls

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by bugkid666

sort of skimmed the updates from today but my brain is fuzzy. tonight is eod yes?

yeah
11 pm eastern, 8 pm west coast

[the sun fan]

shado can u tell me why you were never voting DBP last eod
I'm sure it is somewhere (I promise I am ISOing botchi)

[the sun fan]

botchi let me talk I guess about my progression with you, maybe it might help you find me town if you are town, which I am finding more and more plausible from this iso.

I won't belabor this point too much, but it has been many years since we played (aside from last game), and so it becomes tougher. It feels like everyone up to and maybe even including roundbox appears to be struggling with this (joke).

for a good while, I didn't have you as much of anything, and that in and of itself was remarkable, given I think I can read you better than most.
anyways

#401 was the first post that I had a medium-strength opinion on, and I still kind of don't think it looks good.

You (correctly) call my quoted post bait, but it *feels* like you're speaking from the perspective of a wolf there. Only a wolf should be looking out for bait like that, it doesn't make sense to me why town!botchi would've been looking out for that.
Additionally, (and I am only noticing this now), you have me as town even though you think I was baiting.

I began to have you as scum, and I did think both because of a real feeling, and also because I expected you to react strongly to it. Honestly, I'm just stupid here, you reacted as strongly as you should have based on what my meta read SHOULD have been from last game, but at the time, I was a mistaken doo-doo head and was wrong.

I **DO** care a lot about meta. It... was about all I really had on you, especially on mobile at the time. It shouldn't feel unfamiliar to you on me, honestly.

I know now that I was wrong. I know now that I was overestimating the strength of what I expected your reactions to be, and they are appropriate. You felt higher energy in my memory

Honestly, not even joking, given I knew you were basically immediately stoned in the last game, I really should have remembered more accurately. Obviously you're not going to be high energy after your entrance last game, I hope you can forgive me for not connecting those dots, even though they were right there.

Anyways
I thought bugkid had been lacking chutzpah last phase, but I thought they were trending upwards, and it was not a good place for me to vote at EOD
I thought ben was town
I had been baiting people with star, but I thought it was a terrible place to go
I couldn't really follow raeko's read on xel because I thought xel was town for the way he talked to raeko
I felt like no one was listening to me on you

so like
I really had to choose between DBP and you, and for a moment, I was voting DBP, which I think was probably better in a like
cosmic sense
anyways, freezin indicated to me that if I didn't like either the ben or star kill, that you were the way forward, and that's what I really needed to try and make happen

I do feel foolish now, even if you are a wolf, because my reasoning was ass-backwards.

It wasn't until I actually tried to bury you earlier today that I realized how wrong I was when I looked back at last game

I know you don't care for meta, or longer posts, but I care about both of those things, and maybe it is just some culture clash here.

I like your frankness here, and when star says that she feels like haku doesn't know who the wolves are, that's kind of my read on you right now.

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I don't think that I want to kill botchi today, in short. I bet my other ISOs will make me feel more strongly about killing other people.

The way botchi openly put his hands up and said "Idk what I'm doing man, I'm trying my best here, but I feel outplayed by everyone else" feels a lot less likely to come from wolf botchi. I had no idea you had been reading the thread that much. Is it really true?

Idk, the way he voted me makes me find him a little bit villagery as well if I factor in that he hates meta. My read there stunk so
it makes enough sense. He has been aghast and I don't really hate it

please don't vote me to get me to attempt to townread you, though