TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Haku looks dummy sus

I can't decide if he's making fun of me or thinks I'm 10 times smarter than I am.

[Hakulyte]

Sunfan/Zenith might be T/T, but the kind of T/T that both sides wish it wasn't a T/T.

I'm going to sleep.

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Yes, the frustration over it seems real to me.

I didn't have the courage to iso 200 posts by Sunfan and scrutinize everything. I liked some things, I hated others like the part with botchi I've quoted above.

When it comes to Zenith, it's more that I have a low game count with him and he doesn't seems to be aware of how I play all that much. So, I'm not surprised at all to see what I see. The problem for me is that the same applies on my end. I just blank out when I try to think at his alignment. It's like I don't know what to look into to build any confidence.

Zenith is a hard person to read. He is a chronic lowposter and d0 nihilist.

My experience with him is that he is better at faking reads that sound good, than kind of mirroring the emotions and mindset he should have as town though.

My initial reaction to the PR comment was bruh, "derp clear denied", what planet are you actually on, how can you have read my posts enough to want me off the table d0 and also not know what setup we are in, that doesn't make any sense.

Then, I was not expecting him to crash out and go off about how town is going to lose if that is all they focus on from him.

The funny thing is, if he is a wolf, he has put a lot into this narrative that it's a big deal that raeko is the one who was dead, and he would have been part of making that decision and then deciding this is how to capitalize on it. So for him to then end up saying she died because she's a PR, honestly is a harder derp to make as a wolf than town, which is why my initial reading of it was that he's either town or trying to get cheap town credit for saying something that's harder to say as a wolf. But the emotional reaction to being questioned on it, actually doesn't fit well with the latter in my opinion...so....

So there at least is an argument that exists that slip theory makes Zenith TOWN in this case.

Personally, I hate being in this rabbit hole and so I am trying to see if I can get a real read on this man based on something else, because holy shit.

I also have gone wrong so many times trying to force myself to get to a read too early...so...

I guess I started thinking about this more because you seem stuck and because he is who sun fan is voting, so I guess I'm contractually obligated to give my bad opinions.

I think I kind of know what you mean, about the read you gave right before you left too.

[botchi246]

here guys, this is where im at right now:
star: town (universally townread at this point i think), yall could consider this a copout beacuse so many other people are reading town. usually i do not like to have to read long drawn out posts, but the way these are written, the logic is easy to follow, and i find myself agreeing more than disagree, which could be a product of just how this game is going postwise/ activity wise

haku: is def town lean, i very much like the way haku is playing right now (i know you have your vote on me right now, im trying to do right by you), its like i can look right into his brain, his play has been honest to me

freezin: ur at null, edge on town. freezin sheepnig d0 on sunfan rubbed me the wrong way. id like to expand on this soon

shado: null, ver close to leaning, im sorry i havent got back to you about the vote nonsense, i will make that clear today, if it turns out, that once again im mistaken, i well read it out regardless, jsut like before

zenith: null, about to lean, going to go back through posts, i dont think there is a whole lot, but i really dont see zenith pushing either way

xel: once again i need to look through them, but at this time, another null, not even sure about leaning

bugkid: null no lean, need to read through again

hate: null no lean, need to read through again

dbp: null leaning wolf, i def need to reread , lean wolf because of interesting end of d0 and start of d1, so reactive (reactive is wolfy, proactive is town in this case)

sunfan: wolf lean, i kinda think you are in the middle for a lot of people, i could be wrong, i mean i appreciate you backpedaling on your read of me to take more into account, but would you normally do this? and that wagon at d0, felt very much like you were diverting from ben(understadable cuz of ur townread) just to save his skin(which u were) but why me? why not dbp or hate or xel, about the same level of activity? you said it was because of a meta read. so my meta read trumped anything else???

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by botchi246

freezin: ur at null, edge on town. freezin sheepnig d0 on sunfan rubbed me the wrong way. id like to expand on this soon

Why did it rub you the wrong way, is it cause you think sunfan is a wolf?

I'm pretty sure I've explained why I voted with him like twice already. He sounded genuine to me at eod so I wanted to help him out since like Michael Vick would say, I didn't have a dog in the fight.

Also I think your sunfan read and vote is OMGUS dressed up in pretty clothing, if sunfan is on someone else I bet I'd see 0 issues from you and you'd have him null.

The problem with your reads is you haven't made any progress on anything that doesn't personally involve you. It's a few safe town reads, a whole lot of null reads and your main wolf read is opposite of you. The only read I sort of like is the DBP one but it's still pretty lean.

[FreezinIce]

Also you better hope today doesn't turn into a thunderdome between you and sunfan because sunfan wins that every day of the week and twice on Sundays. If I were you I'd look for an exit ramp or dig up something more substantial on him that's convincing because what you have right now isn't doing it for me

[botchi246]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Also you better hope today doesn't turn into a thunderdome between you and sunfan because sunfan wins that every day of the week and twice on Sundays. If I were you I'd look for an exit ramp or dig up something more substantial on him that's convincing because what you have right now isn't doing it for me

understood. i just wanted to get that reads list out, so i could get everyone started on the same page with me.

[botchi246]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Also I think your sunfan read and vote is OMGUS dressed up in pretty clothing, if sunfan is on someone else I bet I'd see 0 issues from you and you'd have him null..

i think i gave good reasoning. id like to see a reply

[DaBackpack]

The most reliable policy for detecting liars is to compare their words vs. their actions. This is what led me to Ben in the first place. Then, it was the scattershot of reads and potentialities that felt like giving himself cover in case he needed to pivot. I didn't have a baseline for Ben, so I wasn't able to compare his behaviors to a "town Ben".

I'll admit I didn't read much into the Nagito comment, I don't think I even parsed what he was trying to communicate there.

I was wrong and I must own that, but I hope at the very least people understand the rationale behind my thinking.

I must admit that I am suspicious of Sunfan's vote switch last EoD. On the face of it, voting for someone you "know" is town is baffling from a town PoV. I believe he's addressed it today--- something about phoneposting and wanting to prevent a CFD on another player because he didn't have a votecount. But doing that while also saying "you guys are wrong about this" feels like an attempt at distancing. (It literally is distancing--- that could be NAI here though. The "I told you so" attitude could be towny, or it could be "having my cake and eating it too." The latter scenario requires us to look at who he might be defending)

Most everything else he's done this game, given that Ben is town, feels towny. I will have to ISO him to resolve this contradiction.

From memory, Sunfan is categorically against bussing, or at least lynching teammates as a distancing strategy.

-------------------------

I have to head to work and won't have internet access until I'm back. I will try to leave early today and make up for my poor performance so far. One thing I would suggest checking out is the wagonomics of last phase and trying to get a sense of "were any wolves actually in danger during EoD?"

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by botchi246

shado: null, ver close to leaning, im sorry i havent got back to you about the vote nonsense, i will make that clear today, if it turns out, that once again im mistaken, i well read it out regardless, jsut like before

zenith: null, about to lean, going to go back through posts, i dont think there is a whole lot, but i really dont see zenith pushing either way

leaning what?

[DaBackpack]

Sorry that was a lot of words to say nothing. The most actionable insight I have right now is "reread EoD"

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by botchi246

i think i gave good reasoning. id like to see a reply

From him or from me?

[FreezinIce]

@DBP I will definitely be checking your eod again later. I think what will solidify my read on you is if I can find evidence that you were pushing for Ben just to give yourself an easy entrance / free pass through eod. What I've found is when wolves can get away with it, it's a lot easier to get through a day tunneling on someone. It gives the illusion of activity while narrowing their view and allowing the day to be easier because wolves don't have to fabricate as many reads.

When I look at your posts and reply to them later, this is the prism I will be using to judge them

[FreezinIce]

From just what I remember I don't like that you seemed to brush off my concerns about how you were interpreting Bens posts but again, I'll have to go back later to read again.

[botchi246]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

leaning what?

just teetering on the fence

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

From him or from me?

him

[botchi246]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

To better understand bugkid's mindset, picture yourself entering a game where you don't know any of the players.
You'd be able to point a few things out here and there, but it would be difficult to bring on the table good observations until the 2nd or 3rd phase. Bugkid is imo underestimated for reads mid game. I think that's where they shine the most.
The playstyle seems to not take into account the risk of getting voted out early. So, wolves tend to take advantage of that for "not meeting expectations" which would normally associated with how veterans play.

At same time, if bugkid is so "not good enough" at solving then what are we ?
There's some hypocrisy going on here.

It's like we haven't learned to accept that other players can play differently.
Ben is a good example here. It's like he needed to make a plead of not being able to solve due to struggles with identifying wolves or something. I'm not even sure what would have worked here.

It's like every player is a mini game where you need to guess if they're playing their mini game or pretending to rather than playing the same mini game as everyone else.


In a game like this, it's almost like we'd have to sit down together, look at each player and consider this somehow.

on a reread, i saw this from haku
i think wolves may be taking advantage of me for not meetin expectations, but honestly i guess that can be construed as town too because im apparently not solving enough.

im having a hard time so far in this game ill tell you that

[botchi246]

and frick, not voting d0 has really screwed things for me too

i know it was bad, i do, i should have just voted something. coulda woulda shoulda

[botchi246]

i will be back at it after work. probably available after 6pm est

[the sun fan]

not caught up
wanted to say that it might be a rough day for me
hopefully eating lunch helps me

I did see DBP question my ben vote
I encourage you to iso me if you want ofc
I would ask you what my motivation is as a wolf to ever move off of botchi and onto ben
I think it is probably the best place someone could look this game to determine that I am town

[the sun fan]

happy to report that I do feel a good bit better after eating and being slightly productive

botchi, yes, meta trumped everything
your opinion that something is off there is at least somewhat right
if you look at my progression, I was absolutely in a pickle about who I can vote

my top 5ish choices were essentially off the table, I don't really remember that happening
in the moment, I was between you and DBP (honestly knowing what I know now, it REALLY fucking sucks I didn't go for DBP)

I was mistaken on my meta read of you, which extra sucks

if you're town, I do think I'm like
one of the few people who engages with you on a level that allows me to read you, where most people just throw up your hands

There's a lot I want to do today, but I'll ISO you first when I am here and engaging with stuff (I was gonna do Xel first but I'll do you first)

I can't even tell you that your vote is entirely misplaced because
as I stated before
the vibes probably should be off with my push of you

My top priority was to try to find something, anything, that can save both ben and star