TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

[the sun fan]

well, in a way, I have it easier, because I am not at the point where I want to say that I am alright with you this round
but

I think there's definitely like 3 people I would kill before you at absolute minimum (real number probably higher, not going to figure out how high rn)
I guess it isn't even unfair for me to say I "want" to trust you

anyways
what do you think of star's posts specifically today

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

@star
my take on backpack was kind of the opposite of yours, and it stems from an old history, so bear with me. town!DBP has had, for better or worse, a meta reputation about being "detective backpack" form and that's affected his games as town in a couple of ways that I remember. the first is that when there's too much pressure on him to become his alter ego and overperform in ways that I think are frankly unrealistic a lot of the time, he retreats and does the opposite, but if people just shut up and let the man cook, he can come up with some very solid analyses. I was wary of sunfan making post telling DBP to "do something townie" for that reason, but figured it'd be ok as long as nobody piled on. the second, and more relevant, is that the alter ego gets to his head in some ways and makes him more confident with sharing moonshot theories and big brain 4d chess analyses than most players would be comfortable doing

so I liked it when he came in hot with a moonshot mic drop / wet fart and then started ish with sunfan and began to dig a bit deeper and flesh out thoughts past just the wet fart, it felt genuine and good. what you'll hate to hear is that one of the things that helped bring me to that conclusion was his 100% confident defense of bugkid. his saying that they were basically always town here was a starting point that I felt town!DBP would naturally start from and then work his way up to the larger world he built. it wasn't enough to say he was 100% town, but it was enough to take him off the table for me for the phase.

interestingly, after I made my post about not voting for him, he rescinded his moonshot and I liked that even more because it seemed like he was genuinely forming thoughts as he read along and dove in

with all of that said, I feel like a lot of what I felt yesterday (about everyone, not just DBP) when I wrote my "hot take" post have been overwritten since. even while writing this, I remembered that DBPs wolf capability changed drastically from the "he goes MIA phones it in from all the way UTR" he had for most of my time playing on this site and now I feel like I should stick to my "reset" a lot harder, but it's difficult

Thanks for this context.

As well as that...I actually just realised, I have played with DaBackpack 7 times before this game and out of those we were the same alignment once, which was my very first game on FFR in October 2017, before I was even going by star-crossed. I think I did not put that together until now because I read games I am not in, but apparently he is the FG to my T-Force.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

well, in a way, I have it easier, because I am not at the point where I want to say that I am alright with you this round
but

I think there's definitely like 3 people I would kill before you at absolute minimum (real number probably higher, not going to figure out how high rn)
I guess it isn't even unfair for me to say I "want" to trust you

anyways
what do you think of star's posts specifically today

well keep at it I guess you'll get there with me eventually lol

to answer your question:
I think star is as solidly town as I've ever had anyone. I think she's well outside of her expected wolf range. I would expect her to be able to fake a bunch of solvey posts, sure, but the nuance in emotional responses to how people take wolf!star's fake reads and how she responds to town's reads on her go way past what I think a 2nd time wolf star would be capable of faking. her read on me earlier reinforced this when she was all like "he has me as top town but evidently he thinks my reads are ass backwards" and still had me at null-ish for it. I've never commented on her reads directly, but she seemed genuinely upset that I and everyone else went the other way from what she had put forward. I think a wolf!star just doesn't have that emotional depth even if she was capable of faking the analysis and the effort, which in itself would be an achievement. Her slot is just about the only thing I'm confident on in this game.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

anyways
what do you think of star's posts specifically today

anyways
what do you think of star's posts specifically today?

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

anyways
what do you think of star's posts specifically today?

nevermind I guess you answered this earlier. can you elaborate now on what it was that you were "looking for" and how it is different today vs d0?

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

anyways
what do you think of star's posts specifically today?

I did already say it earlier, they do feel like what I was missing, and two of them have given me the feeling I was missing
but I'm still not all the way there
I should probably just get over it, she's probably town, but it feels not yet like how it used to

her self-meta explanation on how she processed the ben flip feels genuine, idk that I had said that one before now

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

nevermind I guess you answered this earlier. can you elaborate now on what it was that you were "looking for" and how it is different today vs d0?

I ISO'd star and I'm not really sure that I can answer this question beyond "it wasn't there yesterday, and it feels like it is there today"

aside from her predicting the future yesterday, which is kind of like a post today, given that it didn't come true until it came true

I am looking for her posts to blow my socks off, basically. Her posts really are incredible as town, and always are. It is the kind of joy that people get when they listen to their favorite musician.

This new album wasn't really doing so much for me, but today, it began to

the way she chided DBP for not evaluating how townie Ben was for saying that I felt like Nagito to him (sorry, I had to) in particular gave me that feeling of "damn, that's so true, why didn't I consider that" and that's one of the ways that a really good star post makes me feel

[the sun fan]

my brain is becoming more mushy about this game
I think I'll take a break from looking at stuff

I'll be back later tonight

[star-crossed]

Reads post ish.

I feel very good about FreezinIce being town. This is partly post volume, this is partly that he is just casually and unapologetically here all the time, this is my read on his interactions surrounding Ben, this is partly from the whiplash of sun fan being his top town at almost end of day to being who he would shoot at the start of the day to being his top town again - I don't think that that's how that progression would come out if he was a wolf.

I don't think sun fan is a wolf. The complexity of the kaleidoscopic narratives that he would be managing to put into this is so much harder to fake in my opinion, then what nearly everybody else in this game is doing in comparison right now. If sun fan is a wolf, then in my opinion how I would find him as one would begin by making his partners make mistakes. Currently, I just don't see it, and I don't really see the point in going down the rabbit hole when so many people other people desperately need pressure and to be pressuring.

Hakulyte - town lean carried forward from D0, see link for Haku highlight reel fmpov. We tend to be in the thread at the same times and Haku really intellectually engages with basically everything I bring up, and so I think there's a small chance I'm biased by that and by us in my opinion having similar approaches to the game. https://www.flashflashrevolution.com...&postcount=339

bugkid666 - I am fairly?? ok with bugkid right now having looked at their posts quite thoroughly? There are some minor things that niggle me but there are other things I do like e.g. reaction to Zenith recently, the simplicity of saying they hate DBP's re-entry. I actually think how yesterday played out at the end maybe makes more sense if bug wagon was also town.

DaBackpack - Is my top sus, thunderdome initiated, tried to get it out there ASAP as time zones are an issue and I have penciled in fucking up my sleep schedule for upcoming the end of tomorrow to try to get this resolved.

My mystery/fairly null pool is ShadoWolfe,_Zenith_, botchi246, XelNya, Hateandhatred. Last two in this pool barely exist to the point that you kind of have to solve around them which is sad, because if either or both of you are town and there's anyone being widely townread that's a wolf, it's going to make things very dicey in the long-term.

I miiiight have time for one iso before I go to bed but if not I'll just start with it in the morning before work, because I think there's a couple of open questions for me to.

[bugkid666]

i'm caught up reading and don't think i have anything else to respond to presently so i'm probably going to nap for a few hours then be back later.

i think i generally agree with star's reads list but would put zenith at slight more wolfy than null. and hateandhatred the opposite, more town than otherwise.

[the sun fan]

star did u answer my short thing about why you thought raeko was the likeliest nightkill and I'm missing it or forgetting it

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

yes please about raeko before you leave please.

I will respond to your DBP question in a sec, I'm just posting between stuff at work

Raeko to me seemed like somebody who was one of the most unlikely to be hanged this game despite a couple of people saying that she would be informative to flip. This is all off the top of my head but

- sun fan was reading raeko town and he is particularly vocal about protecting people
- Zenith had raeko top town
- Ben was townreading raeko
- DaBackpack gave a townread on raeko at end of day
- when Shado was questioning raeko at end of day, I think Haku piped in to say Haku sussed Shado more than raeko and kind of tried to get Shado to back off
- I gave a townread on raeko before I left
- Freezin and raeko typically read each other well and so at least if you are somebody who plays frequently, you kind of expect them to work together unless otherwise stated
- Xel accidentally connected ben and raeko and then was super apologetic about the error in a way that would suggest he is less likely to go against raeko willy nilly anyways
- bugkid didn't give a read on raeko iirc but they were voting together

From a social dynamics perspective, raeko came across to me as somebody who could be in a spot to be part of a town-driven wagon. If you for example assume Zenith and sun fan is TvT, if you kill raeko it is less likely they can reconcile I think. If you assume Zenith is a W in that then I'm less sure what you want to do there.

I also think it's a nice bonus for wolves when they can kill somebody right before they are fully on the right track in their reads.

[roundbox]

The Votecount
DaBackpack (2) - star-crossed, Hakulyte
_Zenith_ (2) - the sun fan, ShadoWolfe
ShadoWolfe (1) - FreezinIce
Hakulyte (1) - _Zenith_

Not voting - DaBackpack, bugkid666, Hateandhatred, botchi246, XelNya