TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by bugkid666

i think i am ok with sunfan's defense, because i fundamentally disagree about star being a worse kill than ben but i can at least understand why you'd feel that way. though i pointed out possible "contradictions" i hope i explained sufficiently why i didn't agree with that resulting in a wolf read. i also really dont understand why you are so dead-set on botchi being scum but i'm going to assume that you are noticing something that i simply cant, at least not right now.

i didnt love freezin's vote on botchi and would like to hear why you felt compelled to move that direction so close to eod.




who is the most universally town read? sunfan? i think i remember someone saying that and i didnt agree with that then and i dont now. i dont think anyone should be universally town read especially on d0 when we quite literally have 0 information other than literal conjecture. this post feels like youre trying to say something while saying nothing.

I explained it before but botchi and Ben were both null and sunfan was making a plea at the end that felt real so I chose to take a leap of faith on what he was selling. DBP case on Ben also felt not good the more I thought about it so that also pushed me away.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Does botchi knows he's supposed to use [twgv][/twgv] tags ?

I told him before in the game I hosted but he might've forgotten

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by bugkid666

yes please kill me I'm so bored of this life

I don't know if talking about it will help me, bugkid

but I guess I was expecting like

a little more

if you were a wolf, I expected you to say something like "yes" without too much more

this might sound stupid, but I genuinely believe in this read a lot
I caught AA (someone you don't know, but who is a very, very good player) for this read before for what he admitted were the right reasons

this... kind of falls in the middle of the bell curve and I am not really sure what to do with it

I think I might just ignore it and try to read you on other stuff, actually.

[Hakulyte]

FYI, I'll be here tomorrow's night, but the last 18 hours or so, I won't be here.

aka I will miss EoD, but try to vote tomorrow.

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

I don't know if talking about it will help me, bugkid

but I guess I was expecting like

a little more

if you were a wolf, I expected you to say something like "yes" without too much more

this might sound stupid, but I genuinely believe in this read a lot
I caught AA (someone you don't know, but who is a very, very good player) for this read before for what he admitted were the right reasons

this... kind of falls in the middle of the bell curve and I am not really sure what to do with it

I think I might just ignore it and try to read you on other stuff, actually.

to be clearer, I did like the response at first, but decided I wasn't as sure like
a few posts after it after I gave it more than .2 seconds of rumination

[the sun fan]

shado I think I'm not the only one who appears to be struggling with the question of who the most townread person is fwiw
it seems a lot of people are struggling with it

[the sun fan]

I was about to say I'm gonna probably get off for the night, but if star posts, I'll stick around for at least some time more

[the sun fan]

I just remembered that bugkid does know who AA is
anyways

I'm off, bottom bar might be lying to me

[bugkid666]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

I just remembered that bugkid does know who AA is
anyways

I'm off, bottom bar might be lying to me

i do know AA lol but havent played twg with him

i'm sorry my sadness didn't resonate with you strongly. if anything i'm just so fucking used to vt at this point i feel nothing anymore. i will say it did make me feel genuinely less looking forward to playing

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

first thing's first, bugkid is absolutely not a wolf this game

all they've ever wanted is to finally roll wolf in TWG; they would 100% be here if they were a wolf, vacation be damned

I thought this was common knowledge

and for what its worth, this take is incorrect. even if i rolled wolf, i would have been MIA until sunday night regardless. i see where he's coming from but it's just not true lol

[DaBackpack]

I'm sorry Ben. I know this doesn't mean much but... you didn't deserve this.

After last night I don't think I'm actually any good at this game. Most of my wins are wolf or serial killer wins.

I don't know why I'm saying this. I'm going to bed. Sorry

[star-crossed]

So I left the thread with a bugkid vote based on an un-resolved matter from quite early in the game, and a town pool of {Freezin, Ben > sun fan, Haku, raeko} and politely asked people to pressure people outside of that pool for me. Obviously as such, I am Unhappy with who the conversation was mostly centred on at the end of the day and who died. I think this is the most annoyed I have been for missing a day end, that I can remember.

Anybody who implied that Ben was at least partly an "informative" vote, I am not somebody who really believes in info lynches, so let's hear what exactly you got from this flip. I actually could probably use help from people who do value "info lynches" to figure out how you are supposed to tell who is being genuine when they say that. So, we will come back to that later.

I was sort of dozing when bugkid showed up, and my last time I picked up my phone to look at the current posts was before they actually addressed the post I was voting them for.

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I think the only reason I'm defending bugkid is because I'm used to see bugkid flip early in games as town and it's getting to my mind.

Uhh, I was voting them for giving a read of interactions seeming T/T with somebody I had not talked to much, it sounds like you are assuming it was for them sussing me.

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

first thing's first, bugkid is absolutely not a wolf this game

all they've ever wanted is to finally roll wolf in TWG; they would 100% be here if they were a wolf, vacation be damned

I thought this was common knowledge

So I am aware of bugkid having a town only streak, but I was not aware specifically of bug's anticipated opinion on rolling wolf and I do not think I was aware that they were on vacation (sorry if I missed where that was said.)

This read is VERY strongly worded from you for what is ultimately a hypothetical meta read. I do understand that bugkid is somebody you know particularly well and so I think that is a factor in why, but you have overstated this and botchi was the only one to call you out on it at the time.

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

1) "I am announcing my distaste of Star's post because I'm not convinced by their reasoning."
2) "However, if I'm wrong, they will be helpful for town."
3) "Even if I tried voting for them, nobody else would."

This is textbook distancing. "If Star flips red later, I want plausible deniability. But I actually don't want them dead. I want to have my cake and eat it too."

My perspective is: why do you think there is basically zero traction on getting them voted out now? Is this a reason for you to just give up the lead, because you don't think anyone will follow you? Isn't your job to try to convince people that you're correct? And to MAKE traction?

And then you follow up with a vote on bugkid, someone not here? It feels like just placing a vote down just to have a vote down

Bugkid WAS here, just was on a slight break from posting. I was the one who was gone.

Originally Posted by bugkid666

big same, but i'm on my flight home now and am stuck in air hell for 2 hrs WITH wifi (albeit spotty) so hopefully i can read and respond efficiently now.

anyways I don't know why everyone got so weirded out by my post, i think y'all are grasping at straws (yes im aware thats what d0 is) sunfan and star both just felt like they were having a normal discussion to me but after rereading i guess they really didn't interact much until after i even posted that. maybe because they were the highest posters at the time?

I mean, that is why I was weirded out by it, yes.
This response is kind of good in terms of you not being overly like defensive though.
I am surprised you kind of have no reaction to Hateandhatred because so much of his content is about you and he had such an indepth accusation pertaining to that post. Is that not something you noticed, and if it is then why did you not want to talk about it?

Originally Posted by bugkid666

this is how i feel about every single one of star's posts so i feel like this would be a bad metric for me personally. that being said, i disagree about ben but understand your reasoning.



this is actually an incredibly interesting reading of dbp saying "i am dead inside" because he fucking hates playing wolf and will ignore thread if he is. however i don't think he's dumb enough to give that big of a tell if so. still thought i'd point it out

I like this post a little bit, like you are not correct on me but I think what I like is that it is criticising me but also has kind of a nugget from within my post that you were looking at and did have an opinion on. It is not just a straight tunnel.

Originally Posted by bugkid666

I'm finally fucking caught up, i feel good about botchi too.

my phone autocorrected that to "bitchi" but that feels too rude to not countercorrect because i don't know you. but it did make me giggle

Originally Posted by bugkid666

i'm good for now but will keep that in mind

Can you explain this one more? For me he does feel kind of like...alone in this world almost, but it doesn't get me to a town read on him. I feel like there is a lack of solveyness I guess is maybe my issue.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

hot take:
wolves are freezin and raeko and one in zenith/sunfan

I'm never voting star, backpack, or haku this phase, and by extension I'm following backpack's read on bug and not voting bug either

benguino and botchi and hateandhatred I know very little about and are pretty solidly null in my head despite a decent amount of AI content from benguin

Sorry, why did DaBackpack make such a strong impression on you?

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

No star vote this round, she's the most focused player, I'll only sus it as power wolfing if she drives a mislynch, otherwise only a highly helpful townie. Not to mention I like what she brings up too. On top of that, a star flip wouldn't reveal much, save it for the next phase at least

Haku is firmly town for me this phase

love #213 by freezin, I was thinking the same thing exactly then. Of course, d0, but the instant read scores points. Dunno how much I agree on scumreading Benguino myself because of the state of the game then, but I think Freezin looks very genuine vs wolf opportunism



Ben, how did the pairings of me/bug/star make sense to you if you were scumreading us?

One of the votes on bugkid by #350 has to be wolfing. It lined up a little too well at this stage of the game and I don't think this is 3 townies converging genuinely. Then the dbp defense of bugkid, not sure about that one at all. Makes me tempted to vote bugkid just to see how the flip reflects on dbp then. Their attack on Benguin in 383 is pretty good though. I think that interaction will matter in d1 going forward

I wouldn't do sunfan, xel or mellon (lol) this phase, playstyle reasons make them sucky targets that won't reveal much regardless of flip imo

Beguino for flip reasons

"has to be" - do you really believe it's that telling? Because what I kind of get from this post is that you think other things about what sun fan and I are doing are actually more important. I guess I am concerned about it in terms of it being an excuse to go against Ben, as well, if I am right in being apprehensive that you are overstating its importance relative to how much you actually dug into it.

[DaBackpack]

I'll try again tomorrow

[star-crossed]

DaBackpack

Yesterday, your reading of the game was almost diametrically opposed to me. You primarily pressed 3 of 5 of the people I wanted off the table, got one of the two people that I probably would never have hanged this game hanged, and basically "didn't have time" to look at anything else. Unfortunate. You COULD be town, and I will look forward to seeing you try again and evaluating that.

Your end of day to me, is full of charismatic bravado that I am concerned is in line with your wolf play.

The Nagito post didn't give you any pause about locking onto Ben? In my opinion, you sort of handwaved "there's something weird between Freezin/Ben/sun fan" while there were things actively going on between all 3 of them that I actively read as complex, relatively not W/W interactions, which leaves me with concerns that it is from agenda ultimately because I cannot how you didn't seem to account for any of that.

I do think that people playing devil's advocate to a certain extent and being willing to make arguments that are unpopular is the only way town can get 3 wolves. My issue with your end of day is that I can see a potential agenda behind you kind of trying to break up the camraderie that formed while you were not in the thread and change the narrative.

I think your defense of bugkid is stinkier than bugkid is.

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I feel like there is a lack of solveyness I guess is maybe my issue.

To better understand bugkid's mindset, picture yourself entering a game where you don't know any of the players.
You'd be able to point a few things out here and there, but it would be difficult to bring on the table good observations until the 2nd or 3rd phase. Bugkid is imo underestimated for reads mid game. I think that's where they shine the most.
The playstyle seems to not take into account the risk of getting voted out early. So, wolves tend to take advantage of that for "not meeting expectations" which would normally associated with how veterans play.

At same time, if bugkid is so "not good enough" at solving then what are we ?
There's some hypocrisy going on here.

It's like we haven't learned to accept that other players can play differently.
Ben is a good example here. It's like he needed to make a plead of not being able to solve due to struggles with identifying wolves or something. I'm not even sure what would have worked here.

It's like every player is a mini game where you need to guess if they're playing their mini game or pretending to rather than playing the same mini game as everyone else.


In a game like this, it's almost like we'd have to sit down together, look at each player and consider this somehow.

[star-crossed]

Anyway, there's SO MUCH I don't have time to address this morning so I have attempted to prioritise, and will be back in full force after work. On my agenda as well is looking at botchi/Zenith a bit more because those stick out to me as off wagon votes that it's not as clear to me why they are there.

[Hakulyte]

DBP is mostly the entrance + re-entrance near EoD. It makes me feel like he had to rush something to make an impression rather than just joining the group and looking at his options.

Sure that was interesting on the moment, but why was that necessary ?

It just felt like "hey, I'm here, I'm important, here's the truth you've been waiting for" kind of deal. It does work for stirring votes, but we had pretty much barely almost no time to evaluate him.

[Hakulyte]

The crazy part is that he plays well enough that I would town read him if the timing of it all didn't feel so off.

[bugkid666]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I mean, that is why I was weirded out by it, yes.
This response is kind of good in terms of you not being overly like defensive though.
I am surprised you kind of have no reaction to Hateandhatred because so much of his content is about you and he had such an indepth accusation pertaining to that post. Is that not something you noticed, and if it is then why did you not want to talk about it?

the reason i didnt respond to it is for pretty much the exact reason you mentioned above in bold. i have gotten too defensive in the past and that has put a lot of suspicion on me. i also didnt feel there was any real content in what hatred said about me that i could meaningfully respond to, especially since he even admitted himself that his suspicion was likely due to differing playstyles.

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Can you explain this one more? For me [botchi] does feel kind of like...alone in this world almost, but it doesn't get me to a town read on him. I feel like there is a lack of solveyness I guess is maybe my issue.

reflecting back on it, its less that i read him as super towny and more that i definitely didnt read him as super scummy. i'm about neutral on him at the moment. i will say him not voting is trending him down for me

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I think your defense of bugkid is stinkier than bugkid is.

I actually disagree with you on this, but for meta reasons. I don't think he's wrong with bugkid.

[bugkid666]

i really hate dbp's re-entry today