TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

[the sun fan]

I probably need to explain two things
1) why I elected to vote ben over star in the first place
2) why I voted ben over botchi at EOD

I will begin with the latter, because I think it is easier to explain (and, selfishly, I think it looks more townie)

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I played that EOD on mobile, which lets me respond less quickly, and without seeing new posts as quickly etc etc. I assume yáll have phones. I play essentially no EODs on mobile, I don't recall the last time I did.

I want it clear, firstly, that I blame roundbox 0% for this. It is our responsibility as the players to be aware of the votecounts etc. I was not really doing that at the time. I saw post #596 had a votecount that was inaccurate in real time. The inaccuracy is actually still there, actually.

I did not realize what the inaccuracy was in real time, I just saw 5 names there, but that roundbox had only written a (4) next to ben's name. In hindsight, I see that Freezin's vote should have been on botchi, I just could not tell it at that time.

I voted ben to reduce the chance of shenanigans where star dies, which I probably could've identified as being low %, but still. I didn't know what the actual votecount was, I felt like not enough people were following me on botchi, and I voted ben instead of letting the possibility of a different kill go through.

I stand by this decision, even though it might look ridiculous in hindsight. I did not know what the true votecount was and I reduced the chaos as best I could.

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For why I voted ben over star

As many of you know, I have played a good amount of video mafia. I have some very memorable games, and I won't bore you with the exact complexities of the two games I was remembering, but essentially, they are games where, due to the nature of how lynches happen in video mafia, I was essentially forced into voting someone who I was very, very sure was town, just to progress the game. For the record, one of the two ended with me being wrong, one ended with me being right.

Let me again waste a few words by saying that Ben is a friend of mine. I like spending time with him, he is someone I have known for even longer than I have known my husband, I was very happy to see him play this game, even happier to see him put in effort. I cannot possibly put into words how fucking awful it felt to vote him yesterday, given all of that and given he was my top townread.

I told DBP, and still stand by this comment even though it may look like I go back on it in a moment, I understand at least some of the reason why people did not like Ben's posts. His posts were more flow-y than anything, and at least one of the "contradictions"""""""""" at least seems reasonable to me to be interpreted as a contradiction.

I genuinely think that if you truly care about that kind of thing instead of actually looking deeper at his posts, at his subtleties, at the three things I saw yesterday, you're looking in the wrong place. We know Ben was town, but I knew it yesterday, and it is because I am essentially never wrong about this kind of thing, and I don't care if someone thinks I am scummy for being that sure about a read on d0 on such subtle things.

Anyways.

I value ben's posts, his friendship, and it genuinely made me very sad to see his last post. I even think it might be targeted towards me specifically given he used the word "despair" but I won't know until the end of the game.

I value star's posts etc a lot. Star is, historically, one of the very few people whose opinions on the game I have sometimes relied upon above my own. I don't want to glaze too much here, but I think Star is a good player, and I hope ben understands that when I say that star is a better player than ben, it is not a slight against him. I think town!star is a better player than town!sunfan.

The one game I have played with star where Jupiter was in retrograde and the moon cycle was in the exact right spot and the Etsy witch I paid $40 to make her roll wolf actually all combined into her rolling wolf, she was unable to keep up her normal gameplay. She was forced into claiming a role (yes I know she can't do that here), which resulted in her being counterclaimed, and town killed her that d0.

The vibes WERE and ARE off with star to me, still. I have faith that, given I had heat, I was likely to survive the nightphase (I do not take this line if I am more townread). I figured I would be here tomorrow explaining exactly this to you. If star is a wolf, I will help catch her, that is my pledge. If she is town, we are getting on the same page this phase. That is my ultimatum to her and to town.

Star WAS a bad kill yesterday for those reasons. She was not present at EOD, an obstacle that we may perhaps see again, but if she is town, we will get there on her, that is my belief and pledge and whatever else.

More people were scumreading ben, I was on mobile which made it both harder to defend him and harder to actually push my counter of botchi (I have since recognized a different top scum, botchi can still be scum kind of without any issue, but still, I'll get to that in another post)

I voted ben to stop star from dying and to progress the game. I think it was unlikely that ben would avoid being at least somewhat solidly scumread in the next phase, at minimum. I think star will be heavily scrutinized today, and her alignment more positively determined.

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I deeply regret staying on star for as long as I did. I really didn't think about it at the time, but I needed to really make a more solid push after getting off of her. It didn't burn down Hollywood, but it killed Ben instead, I think that's part of how that domino effect occurred. Maybe Ben was fated to die anyways, it is a what if.

I am appreciative of Freezin's vote on botchi, even regardless of potential pocketing or whatever, it was good to have at least one person believe in my townread on ben (or pretend to)

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@botchi
we need to talk, not about anything that you might expect
you did not vote yesterday
this is bad

I won't lecture you, I know you know that this is bad, even if you aren't sure

essentially, none of your words had any weight yesterday

come this phase, you (and everyone else), needs to vote, because that is how town kills wolves, and that is how the wolves blend in with town

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

that's a surprising NK
raeko wasn't anywhere near the most universally townread and there's no PRs so it feels... wrong?

who is the most universally townread
I'm not sure I know the answer to that question

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

If shadowolfe is a wolf he has subtly outplayed me in a way that probably deserves a parade

for this post, idk if this is apparent, but this specifically only applies if star is his wolf partner

if wolf is wolf and star is town, wolf is kind of just like
an intelligent coward
idk if this helps anyone in any way, but I wanted to say it

[the sun fan]

instead of mistaking my posts for funnygurl's
now I think it is a Brazilian dude I know from another forum
whatever I guess it is my cross to bear for having this cursed avatar

I will explain my scumread other than botchi later on, I think there's kind of like a 50/50 chance I can bury them with their own inaction

[FreezinIce]

I think all the misgivings I had about sunfans eod were very clearly addressed by that post. And I definitely wasn't pretending to read Ben as town near the end. Around the time I made it post to DBP criticizing his read on Ben was around the time I started turning and looking for other options

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

100% wolves voting ben rn

just by like probability, this is likely true
I was really just frustrated at the time
I don't really stand by this post, at least not the energy of it, if that makes any sense

the same is at least somewhat true (but less so) about my read on botchi being as scum as I said he was. I am really not sure why anyone seems to have him as townie as people seem to, I would like to address that further this phase if possible

I do think he is different in a way that I struggle to maintain is anything but scummy, but like

it isn't as strong as it might've otherwise sounded

botchi was 100000% a better kill yesterday than ben, though

as usual, I really didn't have any solid scumreads on d0, I was just frustrated at a multitude of things

[FreezinIce]

And I did notice that typo that Roundbox made in real time but didn't really think much of it lol, at least not enough to comment on it. Maybe if it involves someone other than me I might've but my brain autocorrected it and I moved on immediately

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

just by like probability, this is likely true
I was really just frustrated at the time
I don't really stand by this post, at least not the energy of it, if that makes any sense

the same is at least somewhat true (but less so) about my read on botchi being as scum as I said he was. I am really not sure why anyone seems to have him as townie as people seem to, I would like to address that further this phase if possible

I do think he is different in a way that I struggle to maintain is anything but scummy, but like

it isn't as strong as it might've otherwise sounded

botchi was 100000% a better kill yesterday than ben, though

as usual, I really didn't have any solid scumreads on d0, I was just frustrated at a multitude of things

There's a few people tied to the Ben kill that need to be torched, and my gut says you'll probably be happy with the results.

From just what I remember there was the entire DBP push the started the serious momentum on him.

HnH wanting to kill him for what essentially boils down to an info lynch.

And probably some others I'm forgetting.

[Hakulyte]

@Sunfan

Is it safe to assume that if you left my DBP wagon is because you think he's likely town or it's another case of "I want to keep DBP alive for similar reasons as Star" ?

ps: do you town read xel/bugkid ? I can see it for bugkid based on meta, but if you have a meta read on Xel, I really don't know.

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

And I did notice that typo that Roundbox made in real time but didn't really think much of it lol, at least not enough to comment on it. Maybe if it involves someone other than me I might've but my brain autocorrected it and I moved on immediately

to try and be clearer, I didn't even process in real time who was voting for ben on that list, my brain just saw like "five (5) items" and only a (4) next to his name.

I didn't even begin to try and see what the correct votecount could be, my brain just went to "fuck, how do I proceed now"

if that makes any sense at all

fwiw I know this is from me and all but like

this probably only ever happens if I am town, feel free to ignore me saying so if the reader doesn't give a shit about this

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

@Sunfan

Is it safe to assume that if you left my DBP wagon is because you think he's likely town or it's another case of "I want to keep DBP alive for similar reasons as Star" ?

ps: do you town read xel/bugkid ? I can see it for bugkid based on meta, but if you have a meta read on Xel, I really don't know.

firstly, I object to it being "your" wagon

secondly, I did not have a solid townread on DBP at all, I had just voted him because I was at a complete loss on who I could vote that actually had a chance of dying instead of ben AND instead of star, which might've proved to be impossible in hindsight

I did not think he was town and my opinion on his alignment didn't have a single thing in the world to do with my decision to vote ben.

[the sun fan]

freezin, would you care to answer shado's question again?
if not top scum, you can give top town if you'd rather

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

There's a few people tied to the Ben kill that need to be torched, and my gut says you'll probably be happy with the results.

From just what I remember there was the entire DBP push the started the serious momentum on him.

HnH wanting to kill him for what essentially boils down to an info lynch.

And probably some others I'm forgetting.

missed this, somehow

definitely give me just your top town then, if that's alright and you see this in time

[bugkid666]

i think i am ok with sunfan's defense, because i fundamentally disagree about star being a worse kill than ben but i can at least understand why you'd feel that way. though i pointed out possible "contradictions" i hope i explained sufficiently why i didn't agree with that resulting in a wolf read. i also really dont understand why you are so dead-set on botchi being scum but i'm going to assume that you are noticing something that i simply cant, at least not right now.

i didnt love freezin's vote on botchi and would like to hear why you felt compelled to move that direction so close to eod.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

that's a surprising NK
raeko wasn't anywhere near the most universally townread and there's no PRs so it feels... wrong?

who is the most universally town read? sunfan? i think i remember someone saying that and i didnt agree with that then and i dont now. i dont think anyone should be universally town read especially on d0 when we quite literally have 0 information other than literal conjecture. this post feels like youre trying to say something while saying nothing.

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

@Sunfan

Is it safe to assume that if you left my DBP wagon is because you think he's likely town or it's another case of "I want to keep DBP alive for similar reasons as Star" ?

ps: do you town read xel/bugkid ? I can see it for bugkid based on meta, but if you have a meta read on Xel, I really don't know.

sorry I missed the PS

I'm kind of reevaluating all of my townreads reads rn, but I was reading both of them as town yesterday

bugkid just felt genuine and honest (and this is in contrast to me finding DBP more lacking, they both reentered the thread at about the same time yesterday) when they were posting
I need to decide how much I care about what I would still say is a bad response to my question about whether or not they were town (yes I care a lot about their response to this question of mine, I have caught wolves for the right reasons on it before and this is the same vein)

Xel I was townreading for his apology to raeko, it is a line where wolves just rarely find themselves able to words the way that he wordsed if that makes any sense at all

as dumb as it is, I might care about xel's apology to raeko still a bit today. It isn't in the tier of the three things ben did, but it is a tier beneath, I'd say.

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by bugkid666

i think i am ok with sunfan's defense, because i fundamentally disagree about star being a worse kill than ben but i can at least understand why you'd feel that way. though i pointed out possible "contradictions" i hope i explained sufficiently why i didn't agree with that resulting in a wolf read. i also really dont understand why you are so dead-set on botchi being scum but i'm going to assume that you are noticing something that i simply cant, at least not right now.

i didnt love freezin's vote on botchi and would like to hear why you felt compelled to move that direction so close to eod.




who is the most universally town read? sunfan? i think i remember someone saying that and i didnt agree with that then and i dont now. i dont think anyone should be universally town read especially on d0 when we quite literally have 0 information other than literal conjecture. this post feels like youre trying to say something while saying nothing.

I am not deadset on botchi being scum, I definitely get why it appeared that way, though

[bugkid666]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

I have the associative reads too, but I think more importantly, several of his posts (the ones where he argues some town/scumleans) are couched.

"I think X might be town, but I want to hear what sunfan has to say"

"This person might be a wolf, but maybe X is instead"

"If X is a town, then Y is a wolf"

He has positioned himself to always have an "out" in case things don't go in a convenient direction. Preemptively adding wiggle room.

There's a general lack of commitment to any real idea. Most substantive reads are always couched in "or maybe this other thing instead."

that's what's primarily driving me towards ben. The associative leans are extra flavoring

fwiw i didnt quite understand the slight push towards dbp yesterday, i'll have to revisit who conjured that up. now that i'm reviewing though, this in particular feels akin to hateandhatred towards me. it's giving "you play this game and behave differently than me therefore you must be scum" lets try not to fall into this trap.

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by botchi246

i dont mind star or benguin flipping, i am leaning toward benguin though because of the sunfan and freezin implications

but id go with star too
decisions

Does botchi knows he's supposed to use [twgv][/twgv] tags ?

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

missed this, somehow

definitely give me just your top town then, if that's alright and you see this in time

It's you and it's not even close. Might even be my ride or die read for this game which is probably a bad idea on the 2nd day but everything you posted in that explanation and the follow up felt genuine

[bugkid666]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

bugkid just felt genuine and honest (and this is in contrast to me finding DBP more lacking, they both reentered the thread at about the same time yesterday) when they were posting
I need to decide how much I care about what I would still say is a bad response to my question about whether or not they were town (yes I care a lot about their response to this question of mine, I have caught wolves for the right reasons on it before and this is the same vein)

what was my bad response to your question? i thought you loved my "please kill me" comment, i feel betrayed. /jk