TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Ive gone from hating d0 to being ok with it since i learned how to stop getting myself nuked do

Knock on wood

The sole reason why I heavily prefer replacing in than playing from d0

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Yeah it serves no purpose now that the reasoning has been exposed. And I know you are probably hung up on the phrasing but it doesn't mean anything.

I think this eod will be spiced

No, that actually cleared it up. Thanks.

Originally Posted by XelNya

I kind of want to see ben or raeko flip

Not because of any particular thing, not even quite because I have any reason for it, but the nature of their interactions tickles the paranoia part of my brain and I can't articulate cleanly why

And they're not the only players to hit this right now

Like, another in game day will probably sort it out but the traded town reads feel a tangible arbitrary I cannot parse how i'd like to

Can you give actual post numbers or quotes please?

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Key operating word here is "could", I could do a lot of things, say a lot of things, but I only think you feel off about it because you want to feel that way about it as I highly doubt you could consider this performative when I'm just explaining why I've said what I've said.

Did you ask yourself why I would hold onto saying that longer than when I did? Seems a bit silly.

My "meta" w/ raeko is pretty developed as she's one of the few people I regularly find myself playing with, pointing it out as I did I feel helps her and I both out w/ moving forward.

Once you bring up the tell, it affects how she will behave towards you in this game and in future games.

You chose to give the reasoning about something that, unless I am misunderstanding, could still have happened naturally but just later on in the phase.

Since you had already referred to it, it is not really worse to give a bit more detail on it, which is what you are strawmanning my questioning of you to be. But I think bringing it up when you first did, seems suboptimal in a way that I think makes more sense from a wolf POV.

Can you please address this again?

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Once you bring up the tell, it affects how she will behave towards you in this game and in future games.

You chose to give the reasoning about something that, unless I am misunderstanding, could still have happened naturally but just later on in the phase.

Since you had already referred to it, it is not really worse to give a bit more detail on it, which is what you are strawmanning my questioning of you to be. But I think bringing it up when you first did, seems suboptimal in a way that I think makes more sense from a wolf POV.

Can you please address this again?

That's fine, I don't see how the behavioral shift could negatively impact me as I have observed behavior and eventually we'll have new behavior and the two probably don't look the same, so all in all it's a bridge that gets crossed later and I doubt it impacts this game. Her actual wolf tell would have already happened (like it did in the last game!) fmpov. I'm sorry if the explanation is poor, it's quite hard to articulate my thoughts on our developed meta and experience with each other and how that translates to reads between us.

You're not wrong, this probably resolves naturally, or I could've just mentioned it in post-game. In fact, I'm pretty certain I have mentioned this exact thing in previous games because this has been a recurring dynamic between her and I since my debut.

I very much disagree that you think this would be coming from a wolf PoV or any alignment really as I'm pretty sure meta discussion is as NAI as it gets, and it makes me feel you lose credibility moving forward.

[roundbox]

The Votecount
bugkid666 (1) - the sun fan
the sun fan (1) - _Zenith_
DaBackpack (1) - Hakulyte
_Zenith_ (1) - star-crossed

Unvote - FreezinIce

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

That's fine, I don't see how the behavioral shift could negatively impact me as I have observed behavior and eventually we'll have new behavior and the two probably don't look the same, so all in all it's a bridge that gets crossed later and I doubt it impacts this game. Her actual wolf tell would have already happened (like it did in the last game!) fmpov. I'm sorry if the explanation is poor, it's quite hard to articulate my thoughts on our developed meta and experience with each other and how that translates to reads between us.

You're not wrong, this probably resolves naturally, or I could've just mentioned it in post-game. In fact, I'm pretty certain I have mentioned this exact thing in previous games because this has been a recurring dynamic between her and I since my debut.

I very much disagree that you think this would be coming from a wolf PoV or any alignment really as I'm pretty sure meta discussion is as NAI as it gets, and it makes me feel you lose credibility moving forward.

Ok, I am going to operate from the assumption that it is true regardless of your alignment that the tell would have already happened and that there was a misunderstanding with that. The premise of my vote on you was with the opposite impression, but I'm going to see if I can sort you while you're here.

Personally, raeko is fairly neutral for me for now. Are there specific things she has posted that you like, or is it more of a general impression that she has not done anything iffy?

I think that meta CAN be NAI but it is utterly baffling to me that you think I should think it always be NAI or I "lose credibility"? It is much like anything else that can be included in a post, it depends what reason you are bringing up the meta and what the impact of it is. Is this a rhetorical thing for you or do you actually, genuinely write off all meta arguments as NAI?

[mellon_collie]

Originally Posted by XelNya

I kind of want to see ben or raeko flip

Not because of any particular thing, not even quite because I have any reason for it, but the nature of their interactions tickles the paranoia part of my brain and I can't articulate cleanly why

And they're not the only players to hit this right now

Like, another in game day will probably sort it out but the traded town reads feel a tangible arbitrary I cannot parse how i'd like to

huh?? Am I missing something? AFAIK the only direct interaction I've had with Ben was at the beginning of the game talking about floats... where did I town read him?? And you want to see my flip because of this phantom interaction????

I really don't understand this post at all and tbh the vibes are off Xel plz explain yourself

[mellon_collie]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Also, if you sus somebody as much as you can d0, is there a reason you are not voting?

What I meant was that at the time I made that post it was still so early it was hard to really suss anybody, so while I did suss Haku very mildly it was based off flimsy early D0 reasoning and not a very serious suss

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Who wants to have a thunderdome on d0

...maybe I havnt learned how to not get nuked after all

Hi

you haven't pissed me off enough to thunderdome though ;_;

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Ok, I am going to operate from the assumption that it is true regardless of your alignment that the tell would have already happened and that there was a misunderstanding with that. The premise of my vote on you was with the opposite impression, but I'm going to see if I can sort you while you're here.

Personally, raeko is fairly neutral for me for now. Are there specific things she has posted that you like, or is it more of a general impression that she has not done anything iffy?

I think that meta CAN be NAI but it is utterly baffling to me that you think I should think it always be NAI or I "lose credibility"? It is much like anything else that can be included in a post, it depends what reason you are bringing up the meta and what the impact of it is. Is this a rhetorical thing for you or do you actually, genuinely write off all meta arguments as NAI?

Before I answer the rest of this I'm gonna jump to the last bit here and answer the question directly, but then stop commenting on it because I feel like you and I could get into a lengthy discussion about that and it'll spiral us both out of the game (whether it be mentally or actually). I don't write all off but the majority I will, and specifically, if you dig through someone else's described meta I think you'll obtain poisonous fruit in doing so rather than simply giving you a different perspective as it should do. And what I mean by poisonous fruit is you're going to essentially breadcrumb yourself to death or you'll wind up being lost and out of track using information that doesn't necessarily apply itself to you.

As for the question about Raeko, what caused me to even blurt this meta out was the lack of seeing the typical w!Raeko interactions early on, namely being one where she exclusively singles me out in some way d0. I do understand that this is a dynamic situation and at any point it can change in an instant, and bearing that in mind, given even more time since then and now, she's still failing the "meta checks" I'd have. Now if you're asking me for more developed reads, I'd have to iso her and point out what I see from there because there's nothing immediately grabbing me from her passing posts.

[mellon_collie]

If Zenith is pocketing me it's working but that's fine I'll deal with that later, he's town in my eyes for right now

Really need to hear WTF Xel was trying to say in that post because I don't think I'm going to be able to focus on anything else in the phase

[_Zenith_]

I'll be leaving for work in a few here, won't be back until like right before EoD I think (get home at 10, think EoD is 11 for me)

think vote is fine to stay where it is until I get back

[botchi246]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

Ben is probably town
raeko is maybe town

you find the wolves from there, chief

bugkid has lacked some chutzpah imo

Originally Posted by benguino

Some reads:

-Raeko: town, like I mentioned earlier, I don't think a wolf would make such bold posts as she did

-bugkid: leaning wolf. I don't like the same post that (#99) that H&H also didn't like, the part that bothered me was moreso how...non-committal the post felt. Also, looking at this post in the context of bug's other posts, I feel like the posting progression feels a bit off. I also agree with Sun regarding the lack of "chutzpah"

-H&H: Although we somewhat agreed regarding bug's post, I also didn't like your post on bug's post either, I feel like posting one's thoughts on interactions/alignments isn't out of the ordinary, so your post felt like a cheap attack. I would say scummy, but I don't think both you and bugkid are both wolves.

-Star-crossed: leaning wolf, didn't like their early d0 post, see my post #185. One thing I forgot to mention, is that there was one decent nugget in their post, namely the "radical honesty" thing.

-haku: leaning town. My notes say "good vibse". Depsite not having played in forever, the posts feel very much how I would expect town haku to talk.

-freezin: I felt uncomfortable with that interaction, but that was moreso just personal feelings. I want to say town, but I want to see how sunfan reacts to your post #231 first.

-sunfan: slight town. I appreciate the town read on me, although I usually have a hard time responding to positive reads on me; my 0th order thought is "I'm getting validation, this must be a good person" but I know that's not how the game works. I know you're a very skilled player, and we're close enough friends that I feel like you can probably easily get inside my head and easily persuade and influence me. In any case though, I appreciate the continued encouragement, it means a lot. I feel we're at least a bit on the same wavelength regarding raeko and bugkid, so that pushes you a bit towards town for me.

yall are like buddies

Originally Posted by benguino

I feel like my townie game tends to be more of an "observer" style where I try to take in everything and then I spew my thoughts and insights (and then sometimes bounce). This can work well in the case that the insights are good, although in a game with so little information that could be considered "ground truth", a game full of just observers might not cut it. There needs to be folks that ask other players questions, poke and prod other players, since such tactics are more likely to give more information and insight.

soon after this, freezin attacks! was it proximity in the chat, is it attempted orchestration? also freezin, you had just caught up with reading in the thread. out of everything you read, benguin ends up being the one?

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

As a wolf it's very easy to fake activity by talking in parallel to events, giving general facts and advice without ever steer close to current events or reads. I'm not gonna fall for that, I'm a bear trap snapping shut on your foot.

Bad luck that you decided to pull that when I woke up and checked the thread

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Regardless I think I got some good info from the interactions so wasn't a waste

i mean this bluff was interesting, im not sure what you gained from it. did you actually think benguin's post were fluff?

[botchi246]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Before I answer the rest of this I'm gonna jump to the last bit here and answer the question directly, but then stop commenting on it because I feel like you and I could get into a lengthy discussion about that and it'll spiral us both out of the game (whether it be mentally or actually). I don't write all off but the majority I will, and specifically, if you dig through someone else's described meta I think you'll obtain poisonous fruit in doing so rather than simply giving you a different perspective as it should do. And what I mean by poisonous fruit is you're going to essentially breadcrumb yourself to death or you'll wind up being lost and out of track using information that doesn't necessarily apply itself to you.

are you also referencing raeko's wolf role in that last game with the fruit?
yall are being awful nice to each other, zenith and raeko that is.

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by botchi246

are you also referencing raeko's wolf role in that last game with the fruit?
yall are being awful nice to each other, zenith and raeko that is.

nah but that's funny

I don't think we're being nice to each other she just accused me of pocketing her and those are fighting words

[mellon_collie]

Originally Posted by botchi246

are you also referencing raeko's wolf role in that last game with the fruit?
yall are being awful nice to each other, zenith and raeko that is.

forming a town circle makes finding wolves a lot easier

This just seems like a genuine read from Zenith. I haven't gone back to look but I know I have targeted him as wolf and I think he's probably right that I do target him often if I'm wolfing (he's usually around the middle of the post count, not a low hanging fruit inactive but also not one of the top posters more likely to fight with me)

It's certainly enough of a read that I wouldn't want to vote for him today. Especially when we have "reads" like Xel's which seem to be completely fabricated

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Before I answer the rest of this I'm gonna jump to the last bit here and answer the question directly, but then stop commenting on it because I feel like you and I could get into a lengthy discussion about that and it'll spiral us both out of the game (whether it be mentally or actually). I don't write all off but the majority I will, and specifically, if you dig through someone else's described meta I think you'll obtain poisonous fruit in doing so rather than simply giving you a different perspective as it should do. And what I mean by poisonous fruit is you're going to essentially breadcrumb yourself to death or you'll wind up being lost and out of track using information that doesn't necessarily apply itself to you.

As for the question about Raeko, what caused me to even blurt this meta out was the lack of seeing the typical w!Raeko interactions early on, namely being one where she exclusively singles me out in some way d0. I do understand that this is a dynamic situation and at any point it can change in an instant, and bearing that in mind, given even more time since then and now, she's still failing the "meta checks" I'd have. Now if you're asking me for more developed reads, I'd have to iso her and point out what I see from there because there's nothing immediately grabbing me from her passing posts.

Ok, I guess fmpov I like and respect that you are concerned with how we are using our time. The wariness I have with referencing the meta, again, was that there is a downside to bringing it up in terms of how it affects the tell. It is not like a situation where raeko is under pressure and needs a defense. And so giving the reason seems motivated either because it amused you and you wanted to share, or because you think it will make people like you to share. Which I don't really think has much to do with the poisonous meta standpoint. I do understand that you already addressed this to an extent.

It might actually help me more at this stage to just let you cook and do what you think is best with your time the rest of this phase, so I do not even really care if you respond to this.

Originally Posted by botchi246

yall are like buddies

Sorry, can you elaborate?
I am inferring that it worries you when two people both defend each other, given you also asked about Zenith and raeko?
It does not inherently worry me. It depends how they do it. So if you have a point you want to make about it, then make it.

[botchi246]

I just like to point out connections. It helps when I look back on my posts.
Sunfan and Ben buddies are different than Raeko and Zenith buddies too.
The former being like friends and the other giving off an older brother younger sister vibe

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by benguino

I think I like this (and similar) posts from Raeko. I feel like this kind of line is something that would capture a lot of people's attention, and I feel like it's the kind of attention that a wolf wouldn't want, so I can't imagine a wolf saying something like this.

Originally Posted by benguino

Some reads:

-Raeko: town, like I mentioned earlier, I don't think a wolf would make such bold posts as she did

-bugkid: leaning wolf. I don't like the same post that (#99) that H&H also didn't like, the part that bothered me was moreso how...non-committal the post felt. Also, looking at this post in the context of bug's other posts, I feel like the posting progression feels a bit off. I also agree with Sun regarding the lack of "chutzpah"

-H&H: Although we somewhat agreed regarding bug's post, I also didn't like your post on bug's post either, I feel like posting one's thoughts on interactions/alignments isn't out of the ordinary, so your post felt like a cheap attack. I would say scummy, but I don't think both you and bugkid are both wolves.

-Star-crossed: leaning wolf, didn't like their early d0 post, see my post #185. One thing I forgot to mention, is that there was one decent nugget in their post, namely the "radical honesty" thing.

-haku: leaning town. My notes say "good vibse". Depsite not having played in forever, the posts feel very much how I would expect town haku to talk.

-freezin: I felt uncomfortable with that interaction, but that was moreso just personal feelings. I want to say town, but I want to see how sunfan reacts to your post #231 first.

-sunfan: slight town. I appreciate the town read on me, although I usually have a hard time responding to positive reads on me; my 0th order thought is "I'm getting validation, this must be a good person" but I know that's not how the game works. I know you're a very skilled player, and we're close enough friends that I feel like you can probably easily get inside my head and easily persuade and influence me. In any case though, I appreciate the continued encouragement, it means a lot. I feel we're at least a bit on the same wavelength regarding raeko and bugkid, so that pushes you a bit towards town for me.

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

If Zenith is pocketing me it's working but that's fine I'll deal with that later, he's town in my eyes for right now

Really need to hear WTF Xel was trying to say in that post because I don't think I'm going to be able to focus on anything else in the phase

You're actually owed an apology, because I made a huge error including you, trying to post on my work break. It should have been focused on Ben's read of you, for the above quoted posts.

The logic flow was thinking you and Ben had back and forthed more than you had, and in that context Bens read, if you examine it from a possible is scum perspective, is him and you faux town circling each other d0 to focus elsewhere.

From there, that faux town circle disincludes what seems to me, the univerally accepted townie, star, but includes a super casual inclusion of you. Which I could add in the hindsight of having actually skimmed your post history & interactions this time, but I'll omit that because this is a response, not accusation.

I fucked up not double checking your history like I normally would, that's a completely my bad, and sorry, and your callout of me is well deserved & placed.

[FreezinIce]

Damn Xel with backstep no jutsu, that's not something you see every day.

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Damn I was actually considering trying to post a secret word or phrase that would get you to not let the cat out of the bag so soon because as soon as you posted the good cop bad cop post I knew you knew what I was doing. But couldn't think of a good way to do it


Whatevs, I'll check in later. Headache went away while eating food but now it's back once I'm done. Gonna take some ibuprofen and take a nap

I already knew you didn't want me to
I would've done it anyway

there's a longer story here, one Ben already touched on, but when he is actually posting, I want to keep it that way (even moreso when I think he is town)

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

Hi

you haven't pissed me off enough to thunderdome though ;_;

It's ok, there's always later. Don't think we've ever had a deathmatch before now that I think about it.