TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Holy wallpost, Batman

Reading now but skimming it, I think it's icky that HnH ises Haku defense of them to the tone of like three paragraphs and then votes him when he knows Haku can't defend himself

Very fucking icky

Okay so MixMasterLar just concisely said what I ended up spending an entire paragraph on; good stuff!!!!

[the sun fan]

Phone posting hard waah
Not a good day for sunfan and twg to comingle

I am going to look for that post if for no reason other than to prove to the gay people who live in my thread that it exists.

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

What are you saying dude?!

It doesn't matter who Haku's partner is. I thought it might be sunfan because I see this plan happening with haku solowolfing with afk weiss. But that doesn't matter because it's haku I'm talking about.

Haku KNOWS extremely well that we wouldn't vote him out mechanically if he's unvoted. That's why we didn't want to vote weiss out for you!

If he's wolfing, he's fucking winning because he's now unkillable because we have to live with the risk that a mislynch of him has a 1/3 chance to kill another town - it's not even a loose cannon but a guaranteed extra town death

I don't think town haku EVER leaves this game unvoted. I don't think there's a chance of that ever happening, because he knows if he somehow dies for whatever reason and isn't around to defend himself, and he's the vengeful spirit, he's guaranteed to result into another town death and town loses!

The issue I have with this logic is that... both of the other people around at SoD (me/Leetic) expressed thoughts that we heavily townread Haku, and Haku hadn't been getting suspected at all - this sentence lives under the assumption that we would have tried to get Haku killed at all? Which like.. hypothetically if Haku is mafia, then they would be winning regardless of whether they voted here or not (as long as they don't vote their partner); them voting or not voting just is not significant at all, in that aspect!!!

The thing is that I'm not sure whether this is mafia!logic trying to eliminate town that can't defend themselves, or town!logic that just has a bit of a narrow view; currently leaning towards the former a bit though, because if Haku is town (and your logic does not dissuade me of that notion), then this is just straight up a very mafia-sided course of action to take!!

[the sun fan]

Something leetic may have overlooked wrt claiming Freddy Kruger or not is the fact that wolves may have color seered the vengeful, and this could throw them off

[Arapocalypse]

Hateandhatred, here's a question for when you're around: let's say hypothetically Haku gets hypothermia and dies right now, flipping town!!! Who do you think is mafia in this situation?

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Ok I think I see what you're saying

We didn't not kill Weiss because he didn't have a vote out, we didn't not kill Weiss because he didn't make any content whatsoever

This doesn't apply to Haku, and Haku has played the game long enough to know FFR loves to lynch players who miss EOD so long as they have posts

There's no indication that Haku feels, or has ever felt in past games, that if he doesn't vote then we'll policy save him

Okay I'm trying not to spam, but I do want to emphasize that I'm reaffirming my townread on MixMasterLar; I should probably not spend time responding to all of Hate's posts because he's just doing it all already anyway!!!

[leetic]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

Something leetic may have overlooked wrt claiming Freddy Kruger or not is the fact that wolves may have color seered the vengeful, and this could throw them off

Besides the fact that it's not super likely they used the seer ability, the tracking ability is far more decisive. They either got a hit (in which it's between two people, or one if they targeted the vig killed player) or not (one to two options are eliminated). The only way this changes is if the Freikugel used the ninja ability.

[Arapocalypse]

I feel bad because I've read all of sunfan's posts, and like... some of them I do like? Just like, general vibes of some posts do make me feel like he's genuinely trying to solve the game at points; biggest example of this is probably how he talked about his Hate townread!!

Noting for the record that I'm not using any meta for him because if we've played together, it was either too long ago and/or in too different of a format; among us doesn't count either!!!! :P

That being said... he is not currently passing the bar of towniness that I've set for day 2, which I know is unfair to him because this is basically like day 1 for him, or 1.5 if we want to factor in the amount of info!!!! If this were day 1 then I could easily see me feeling comfy enough putting him as light town for now and moving on? Which just... isn't enough for a townread today, sorry!!!

Not really sure what you can do about this sunfan, sorry; you want to maybe talk more about your thoughts on Leetic?

[Arapocalypse]

Quick readlist of where I'm at:


Arapocalypse

Very very unlikely to ever vote today
Hakulyte
MixMasterLar

Unlikely to vote
leetic - I still have yet to see good reasoning for why he should be voted?? Would technically be open to discussing, I don't necessarily want to shut down that many routes at this point when we're essentially in endgame, and sure I could be wrong - I don't think I am, but this read is straight up not as strong as the above townreads!!!

I guess this is my PoE???
thesunfan - Just don't feel confident about enough to move him up, but I also don't think he's been posting anything particularly mafia-indicative - he's basically just a null for me, which means he's in the PoE at this point!!

Hateandhatred - I appreciate the effort they've put into this game, just like... the conclusion of it just being Haku and sure the other could be sunfan is just, not sure if I can ignore how very mafia-agended it would be if Haku is town here? Also don't think I mentioned, but would be curious if they garnered any more thoughts regarding the votes they recorded; I was looking forward to seeing where they were going with that, just am feeling like it's a lot more information over analysis, which is much easier for mafia to do when they're trying to look like they mknow what they're doing!!! Keeping in mind that mafia very much don't have to be subtle here, we're practically in endgame; all they really need to do here is look just towny enough!!

[Arapocalypse]

MixMasterLar, what do you want to do today? Guessing you haven't gone to sleep yet, as you haven't voted!!!

Right now I want to sit on Hate again and see how that feels, but do want to figure out if we need to do some pre-emptive vote coordination!!

[leetic]

As for Hate's Haku push, meh? I haven't been the biggest townreader of Haku but I think it would realistically require thesunfan to be partnered (I doubt w!Haku tinfoils Lar when there was no reason to if they're partners, Haku's "why do you townread me" towards Ara looks unaligned, this jump wouldn't make sense in a Haku/Hate world as sunfan would be an easier target) and I'd much rather flip sunfan than Haku. Though, if it is a wolf move, it seems to be a sign of desperation; if the goal is to lynch Haku, it seems unlikely to have the required votes when me and Ara both said we wouldn't vote Haku and MML was unlikely to be malleable. I think a desperate wolfteam in that scenario would also require sunfan to be partnered here? Eh

[leetic]

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

I feel bad because I've read all of sunfan's posts, and like... some of them I do like? Just like, general vibes of some posts do make me feel like he's genuinely trying to solve the game at points; biggest example of this is probably how he talked about his Hate townread!!

Noting for the record that I'm not using any meta for him because if we've played together, it was either too long ago and/or in too different of a format; among us doesn't count either!!!! :P

That being said... he is not currently passing the bar of towniness that I've set for day 2, which I know is unfair to him because this is basically like day 1 for him, or 1.5 if we want to factor in the amount of info!!!! If this were day 1 then I could easily see me feeling comfy enough putting him as light town for now and moving on? Which just... isn't enough for a townread today, sorry!!!

Not really sure what you can do about this sunfan, sorry; you want to maybe talk more about your thoughts on Leetic?

Can you show me what towniness you see in sunfan? For me they're playing this game quite like inactive mafia would (mostly posting about how they're going to be inactive, giving up pushes whenever there's any pushback, etc.) I don't think I've seen them towntell once

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

MixMasterLar, what do you want to do today? Guessing you haven't gone to sleep yet, as you haven't voted!!!

Right now I want to sit on Hate again and see how that feels, but do want to figure out if we need to do some pre-emptive vote coordination!!

Trying to get keys out of a car so already up later then I wanted, but I'm focusing on breaking into this fucker and then bed. I'm up at 5am tomorrow

I think I have to go Hate and here's why

-Stronger town reads elsewhere excluding SunFan (and would ideally wait til EOD to see if that was more viable but oops)

-Haku case feels really forced in places

-I fundamentalally disagree with a Haku wagon to the point I think it's harmful to towb

-this helps resolve previous CW and someone the night kills did shade

-.....man idk the whole push feels that bad. It really feels like scum knowing they have to make effort and picking some truly low hanging fruit no shut the fuck up inactives ain't low hanging fruit they are a fucking liability

And I hate voting here this early because I feel EOD will be telling for several players but I have to decide here and I mean fuck, apparently it's top tier sus not to vote so HnH it is

[the sun fan]

Sven if u r thinking it is haku and I, why not vote me
I am much more killable than haku

[MixMasterLar]

Don't let SunFan talk you into Leetic that's absurd. I'm staking my rep in the game that he's clean

Anyway this is my final post this phase, I have to draw a line now. Sorry

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by leetic

Maybe. I suppose the problem is you don't want the wolves to know what abilities the Freikugel has remaining. Having a definitive answer on who was the wolf kill and who was the Vig kill would be nice though and ideally if it's going to be revealed this phase it's not at last minute

What would you gain from this knowledge of knowing who was killed by the mafia/who the Freikugel killed, though? If you wanted to look at their reads, then why not operate under the assumption both were killed by mafia and take both into account?



Personally, I think we should just leave it up to the Freikugel whether they want to claim or not; don't really think it's that useful to get into this further today!!!

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

I am much more killable than haku

Dawg I don't have any room left in my sig and this quote is a banger

Ok out for real

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Don't let SunFan talk you into Leetic that's absurd. I'm staking my rep in the game that he's clean

Anyway this is my final post this phase, I have to draw a line now. Sorry

Ok is he gone now can we vote lar now

[leetic]

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

What would you gain from this knowledge of knowing who was killed by the mafia/who the Freikugel killed, though? If you wanted to look at their reads, then why not operate under the assumption both were killed by mafia and take both into account?



Personally, I think we should just leave it up to the Freikugel whether they want to claim or not; don't really think it's that useful to get into this further today!!!

But that's not very helpful is it? We can end up getting too the wrong conclusion by considering the wrong person. Nevertheless, it's getting a bit late in the phase for it to matter all that much

[leetic]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

Ok is he gone now can we vote lar now

Are you actually gonna have a strong push or is this more pussyfooting?