TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

[Hakulyte]

Lame.

Copyright: leetic

[Hakulyte]

Understandable tho, I hope you do good at college and get good sleep.

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Understandable tho, I hope you do good at college and get good sleep.

Same to you my friend, Hope your week is good

ok peace everyone I really gotta doze off

[Hakulyte]

Both Sunfan and Ara looks okay with voting out H&H hmm..

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Well, I'm assuming every FFR player in this game who played with me knows that I'm town like 99% of the time here.

If there's a wagon on me taking advantage of the fact that I'm not here, it's probably your wolf wagon. It's not really a brag, more like a track record of constantly losing games the exact same way.


I don't think my thoughts are super reliable here. It's just that I gotta try something and see if others agree or disagree and then build from that. I think your guess is as good as mine.



The only objective things I've been considering is looking at votes and rereading the posts from the players that flipped.

I'm curious, do you generally consider yourself to be a heavy meta player?

I'm getting the feeling that you tend to read people based on your expectations of how they play, and don't really have a baseline of town or mafia that you base reads off of; it would make sense as to how you're approaching me, because you have no expectations and thus can't really seem to find me as town!!!

If so then that's fine, we can work around it then; we'll just have to get to the mafia first before you can tinfoil too hard on me!!!! :P

That being said, would it help you if I linked a game or two of mine?

(It probably wouldn't because it's been a hot minute since I've played a game like this, but I could always try!!!!)

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Would you guys prefer if I don't vote in case you guys figure out who to vote for later on ?

It could avoid wolves stacking on my vote and forcing a kitb.

For what it's worth, I think it's probably fine/better that you vote now in case you can't make it around later, unless you're absolutely sure you can be here at 2pm?



We just have to ensure that no one else votes who you vote for now, or only one other person does if it's Hate!!!

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

4 votes is insta. There's 2 wolves alive. 2+2 = 4. Parity 2:2. Could be insta and game over here if Freikugel miss.

My point is just that the game wouldn't be over if wolves decided to out and insta on town!Hate - Freikugel could just shoot them during the night!!!

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

For what it's worth, I think it's probably fine/better that you vote now in case you can't make it around later, unless you're absolutely sure you can be here at 2pm?



We just have to ensure that no one else votes who you vote for now, or only one other person does if it's Hate!!!

idk there's a world where there's no shot and the game can continue one more phase + potential hard claim into 3:2 -> 2:1.


The ideal would be to avoid the devil shot because the odds of the wolves getting it would start being decently high.

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

I'm curious, do you generally consider yourself to be a heavy meta player?

I'm getting the feeling that you tend to read people based on your expectations of how they play, and don't really have a baseline of town or mafia that you base reads off of; it would make sense as to how you're approaching me, because you have no expectations and thus can't really seem to find me as town!!!

If so then that's fine, we can work around it then; we'll just have to get to the mafia first before you can tinfoil too hard on me!!!! :P

That being said, would it help you if I linked a game or two of mine?

(It probably wouldn't because it's been a hot minute since I've played a game like this, but I could always try!!!!)

I would definitely like the skim through a few of your games to see if it's a similar narrative at least.

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

tbf, world-building is not a great strategy for directly solving the game. It would be more fair to say it's just looking at interactions that could make sense together. It's really easy to be wrong about these.

I only do it because it's forcing me to consider things I would normally completely miss, but those things are rarely right by themselves.

I'm only asking because I'm expecting FFR players to know me by meta, but I don't expect players from outside FFR to like how I play at all. I'm saying that because when I started playing like this, I pretty much got executed on sight.

I actually very rarely do worldbuilding, it's not part of the toolkit I typically use because the mafia teams tend to be larger and there are too many variables to easily keep track of!!! But I've lowkey always wanted to work on worldbuilding more because I'm not as strong in it, and what better time to do it than in a 4v2 scenario like this? Very compact, basically perfect to do some worldbuilding in!!

That being said, I did reread EoD again and unfortunately have not been able to find anything that would rule out the Leetic/MixMasterLar or Leetic/Hate teams though, so am just leaving it at that for now!!

Also, the way I'm approaching worldbuilding is fairly interaction-focused? Basically just trying to rule out worlds/narrowing things down from there, though I would like to practice some direct "team construction"-type things later if I have the time!!!

Yes, I've never seen you play before and have no idea how you typically play, outside of some meta shared like melon's that I've taken into account, but that doesn't really matter? The way I solve is keeping in mind the core difference between town and mafia, which is that town have no TMI; from that, a lot of town archetypes/characteristics can be found from displaying certain thought processes to certain interactions, all of which spiral out from that single tenet!!! Sure, no two players play exactly the same, but I believe that if you can identify that one key difference between town and mafia mindsets in a person, you can read anyone!!!!!

I'm certainly not the best at doing that, but from what I've seen, you're obvious town through the ways you've expressed paranoia that mafia would find difficult to fake/thought processes that display a lack of mafia agenda/genuine desire to solve that mafia would put less effort in because they already know the answer/that sort of thing, just a lot of different elements about your mindset that simply make more sense if they're coming from a town player rather than a mafia player!!

Sorry that got a bit long, I just like talking about mafia; hopefully it makes sense!!!

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

I got up to piss and decided I'd check the thread

I'm kind of bummed out because there's a lot I want to say but it will have to wait because college and I need to go back to sleep

I do have a lot to say, so stay tuned

Peace for now, irl demands my ass in college at 7am but I'm guaranteed-ish to be around from 17h server time to EOD, possibly for a bit this morning, but tbh if anything I'll just be reading the thread

No worries, looking forward to your thoughts when you're up and around!!! Good luck with college!!!!

[Hakulyte]

I tend to town read players that are trying to actively "attempt to solve the game" especially if they come to similar conclusions.

By example early game, MML posted early reads and I felt like I was more or less at the exact same place. That made me town read him. That is because I don't know if the reads are correct or not, but it made sense with the current information available.

[Hakulyte]

As for who I'm voting it's not really about finding a target to me, but rather isolating what's illogical if my town reads are correct.

If you gave me a gun and told me to shoot a wolf, I'd be likely to miss.

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I tend to town read players that are trying to actively "attempt to solve the game" especially if they come to similar conclusions.

By example early game, MML posted early reads and I felt like I was more or less at the exact same place. That made me town read him. That is because I don't know if the reads are correct or not, but it made sense with the current information available.

Interesting, do you feel like I haven't been actively attempting to solve the game, in that case?



(Also I'm currently working on finding some games of mine, will link in a moment!!)

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

As for who I'm voting it's not really about finding a target to me, but rather isolating what's illogical if my town reads are correct.

If you gave me a gun and told me to shoot a wolf, I'd be likely to miss.

Yeah, figured that is how it works for you based on how you were solving at SoD!!!


It's actually quite fascinating because that very often tends to be the way players naturally find their way towards solving after they've played for a while, in any community where social reads play a factor in their games; just interesting to see how people individually find their way there!!

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I would definitely like the skim through a few of your games to see if it's a similar narrative at least.

So these are both a bit old, but they're the most recent ones from a game of a similarish size:

2023: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/38093

2019: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/22563

If you click the Multi-ISO dropdown in the bar at the top of the page, you can find my username and ISO my posts from there!!

...Amusingly enough, I was eliminated day 1 in both games; didn't realize that until now, that's a bit embarrassing!!!!

Alignment spoilers in case you want to read them not spoiled on my alignment:

The first one I was town, second I was mafia, and yes I don't think I've randed mafia in a small game since then - it's been ages!!!!!!

If you really want I can link some more recent ones, but they are from much larger games so I approach games rather differently when they're at that size!!!

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

idk there's a world where there's no shot and the game can continue one more phase + potential hard claim into 3:2 -> 2:1.


The ideal would be to avoid the devil shot because the odds of the wolves getting it would start being decently high.

True, maybe the play would be to hold the shot and see how the F5 goes?



If we miss today and the devil shot goes off though, it being decent odds would mean that would be more okay for the shot to go through? Even if the devil shot doesn't happen, they'd be more likely to hit mafia anyway!!!

[Arapocalypse]

At this point... mainly I'm just waiting around for Hate/sunfan to give their thoughts, I think? I've mostly just been around now since you said you're only available for these hours, but I'll be off soon for most of the day (again, unfortunately) and will be back around 5ish hours before EoD!!!!!

Thinking I'll definitely link this one next time someone asks for a town game, if I remember; regardless of the result, I've rather enjoyed playing here so far and also generally liked the way I've been able to dig into this game!!!

[Arapocalypse]

thesunfan

Doing this for now, but I am very much looking forward to seeing what thesunfan says!!!!! Quite curious as to where he's coming from, as a new perspective on the game!!!

[Hakulyte]

I'll just say that I prefer the posts from your wolf game than your town game so, I guess that aligns with what's happening here.

I really need to ignore your posting style in the future tho and try to read you from something else.