TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Kind of did that homework for you if you'd be so kind as to actually read my posts.

okay i weel

[XelNya]

I'm gonna kinda begin from BoD but skip some of the prewrites because while sure they're cool, I'm sure they got covered by now.

And this is gonna be sloppy, I'm only gonna devote an hour and a half to this post if it kills me.

Bar this one:

Originally Posted by tiloco217

Xel is playing this game very weird. I’m pretty sure he’s the shitposting type and there has been very little of that from him. Instead we got early game content and then nothing but the occasional quip (and even those aren’t shitposty. they tend to be something seemingly productive that he never goes back to). The biggest issue I have with him is that he was present for many hours leading up to eod and would occasionally drop a comment on something said but he would never actually do anything. Being around for that long he had to have had some time to actually put some effort in but he just never did.

I wanna state before I address this: I am not making excuses for my lack of EoD, and this SHOULD be ignored when reading me, which is why I'm spoiling it so you can skip it if you feel you can't ignore it.

It was one of those days where I just failed to have an attention span. I was trying to write posts, but I couldn't get myself to hammer at a post for more than ten minutes or so. It's very difficult to have cohesive content, and not allow for opportunistic mistakes when I can't sit there for more than ten minutes.

Now for the votes on me

The votes on me were roundbox, haku, and freezin and I think they were in that order but haku and freezin might have been switched.

roundbox going on me randomly is very interesting. I think there’s a strong case to be made for this being either alignment. I’m going to have to go over his posts more when I have time and consistent internet. I think his read on me was something like “flipping on xiz a lot means he’s stuck between wanting to play with him and wanting to evaluate him fairly”. If he hadn’t voted on me I would have probably assumed he thought I was town from that. It’s fairly true but I don’t understand how being torn by wanting to evaluate him is a mafia sided problem. Please elaborate or tell me how badly I misinterpreted your read.

Going back and *actually* skimming through roundbox's posts on you, it wasn't really that random. He says (I have added your quotes in to save you some effort

So his vote on you isn't that surprising? Especially since his swap to you is within 5 minutes or so of the post I just quoted.

Freezin’s vote on me is noteworthy because it means he didn’t vote on light which I think he would do as mafia. I doubt he would have gotten any slack for putting it on light there as he already said he wants inactives dead. Him instead bandwagoning on me is fairly towny I think.

It's really not because he says:

So him voting you is a sign that he thinks the light wagon is bad, which in hindsight yeah, leads me to also conclude he'd be more townie.

But outside of hindsight, I arrive at the same conclusion. Because he's still trying to direct the wagon away from a hit he fears is bad.

The only one that I think comes out possibly mafia in my votes is roundbox and that’s pretty tentative. At first I found that really weird but very few people in the thread had a good reason to vote on me outside of those three so if any of them jumped on the bandwagon then when I came back town they would look really bad. I had been taken off the table by a pretty large percentage of the game at that point. Come to think of it that makes roundbox even less likely to try to start after me as mafia.

I already kinda went over Roundbox, so I completely disagree with this conclusion, even if he wasn't flopped. His jump onto you was semi-premeditated, and not exactly, backed up terribly.

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Ok then, looks like two factions.

So let's talk about just this part of your post seriously. What made you so quick to jump to the notion that there's two factions rather than stating there's a possibility of a vigi-type roll? Why do you completely just post nothing but white noise about some iso of blind and tiloco and end it with no actually worth while conclusion? Town MML would have walked out of that ready to fire shots at one of them I think. Especially when you state that you're leaning blind scummy when you walk out of that iso.

So why the fucking shit do you decide I'm a better vote over all of that work you just did?

Originally Posted by Soundwave-

Rewind the record and put yourself in wolf tiloco's shoes.

Does the stack of votes scare you?

Maybe.

But night falls, it's time to choose your mark, and you calm down. Do you kill off your voters?

Maybe. It was a close call.

But you only do it if the situation threatens to be as drastic the following night.

Not really sure why you're speculating on Tiloco's wolf tacts. You can sumerize this into "do you think wolf tiloco kills one of his voters?" and have been done?

Originally Posted by Soundwave-

The alternative, Haku wolfed and roundbox shot, is even weirder because why would you shoot roundbox right now?

Also to be kept in mind: I would think a 1-shot vigi claims in this scenario so if it doesn't happen then a potential vigi is multi-shot

I'm liking you less as this goes on by the way. Your theory crafting is overshot by the self assured tone of your post.

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

I guess that's not impossible in a mystery game but I find it unlikely. There was a third party last time, there likely is this time as well.

Am I over-reading into this as an inconsistency?

Originally Posted by inDheart

still, why not xel? you had been considering him and the wagons were not huge at all

I too would like to see this response. You said something very peculiar:

Originally Posted by Celirra

Xel you better post more in d1


I really dont like the game you're playing!!!!!!!!!!


Are you shy

only the wolves will bite, but hopefully we'll get one tonight

but why would a wolf be scared of wolves

Also worth noting a general lack of follow up pressure on me after making such a post.

Nice.

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

I legit don't know who has the better point between Blind and Xel lol (Concerning Haku)

I think both Haku and Roundbox where generally townread (Haku WAY more so) that what we really should be getting out of this is that it wasn't a town friendly Vigi....unless that Vigi is dumb as bricks. Past that, there really isn't anything to speculate on.

Nice attempt to shovel a discussion into an early grave btw. I'd be more ok with this if you had directed it to a better topic.

Originally Posted by inDheart

soundwave

whether this is actual wolfiness or just me being annoyed is something i'll sleep on

Noting this to see if it's revisted or not.

Originally Posted by blindreper1179

He lied here because HE COULD OF FUCKING CLAIMED, but he has a point.

I'm also curious to something. Of the people on the LK train, pick the one(s) you'd say were likely the scum pushers.

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

Haku dying doesn't surprise me at all. Roundbox is a pretty weird one and I agree that it was probably a non-town aligned third party kill. That would make the most sense to me unless we just have a yoloing vigi

I do wish you were still here to explain why you think RB is a third party kill so confidently...

But alas. I missed my chance.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

To do list:

Wagon analysis
Necro reads list
Reaction test
Does it add up? (Progression analysis)

Noting to check later if this is followed up on.

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Because of the wagons I think Manti has the most suspicious vote next to Cel. Cel looks a little better because he was walking about going between InD and Light beforehand though but the fact that he voted for who one of his scumreads was voting for without taking that into account is pretty weird in and of itself.

I think my scum list would be

Blind
Xel
Manti
Then either Xiz or possibly Cel

Strong. Will not lynch town would be
Freezin (getting off the Light wagon)
Raeko / Wayward Vegabound(normal Raeko bullshit, plus I doubt she would sub out as wolf this quickly)
I probably wouldn't vote Debackpack this phase.

Everyone else is either slight town or null. Half of my strong town leads are fucking dead.

I actually take more issue with this than I did at a glance earlier.

Notibly the raeko read, and dbp read.

Neither of which are actual reads, and are more like placing them to satisfy making this look good.

Aren't you better than this or did you aquire a bit of elf dick in the mouth? (AKA You choking there buddy pal fren?)

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Oh hey a post

No one is giving a reads list because I was the first and got scum read for it so duh no shit no one is doing it. It's super anti town though. Reads list get people talking.

Xiz for being different and he hasn't come back and made me feel better. Yeah, he has a legit excuse for being afk but when you leave with me feeling uneasy then I am still gonna be uneasy

I literally explained why I was reading you that way in that post.

Freezin I have played with many, many times. He is not near as aggressive as wolf on d0, and he legit seems like he wanted to further the game. The lynch all inactives strat is pretty stupid in most situation but he makes that suggestion as town all the time. As wolf, he isn't normally around long enough to make that argument (He'll just vote for the lowest point count and bounce). Not only that, but everyone who jumped off of Lightknight saying it was too easy a lynch look better. There where three who did and two of them are dead town. As far as I'm concern that makes him super clear.

Does he need to say more? hell yeah. He shouldn't get lazy, but at this point its down to rather or not I respect his post and not rather or not I vote him.

DBP is pure, 100% meta read. He came back three times that day and he doesn't as wolf normally. Now what he was saying was hit or miss (many more misses imho) but he was here and that's enough to make me feel like he can have a little leanway.

Now if he drops off the map we can revisit him, or if he says some seriously stupid shit, but with so many scumleans already there's not a point to worrying about him.

... Are you and WV / Raeko possible partners?

I loahte partner economics but... You strangly seem content to just pass her along.

Originally Posted by Celirra

Let's see....


It's hard to go off much because so far this day has been pretty.... quiet


Anyone not mentioned is null.


DarkManti is hard to go off of, as he's either using facts and picking specifically to help and clarify issues without causing too much fuss, or he's being relatively quiet and only talking if he feels he needs to to avoid discretion against him, and him clearing things up in the way he has been is more to make him seem relevant. If memory serves, most of what he has said isn't terribly... new info per se, so I'd lean him scum before I lean him town right now.

I have trouble seeing MML/Blind as T/W based on their interactions; I'd sooner lean them TT than WW because it felt fairly genuine from both sides.

InD I'm still iffy on for d0's actions that I mentioned, but his d1 so far has been clean and made me less confident.

Xel is still fishy for same reasons as I said EoD d0

Why you no vooooooote hereeeeeeeeeee

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

why you complain of a lack of shit to go off of, but won't commit to pressure yourself?

Let me step up then fren.

Originally Posted by Soundwave-

Raeko.

YOU HAD ONE JOB.



Lynch all liars.

Someone manages to be less useful than me, and more white noise than MML.

[twgv]Soundwave-[twgv], whatcha doing there bub?

Lar you're next, just so you're not blindsighted when I swap to you later if Soundwave actually doesn't make legit want him gone.

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Ok then that was pretty quick. Tokzic has 53 post. His first was page 13 and his last was the infamous "Triloco is town get off post" we all know.

---
To Freezin:


in response Freezin's post that at least two are town:


In Response to Freezin saying that if he had money he would bet that in Vegas:


Keep in mind that he had a vote on DBP at this time and had already said Freezin was reminding him of his wolf game---

----and criticized Freezin's consistency ---

--- making it seem like of the three he liked Tri the best. I can't find him saying that he slanted him town, though. He never comes close to saying straight out that Tri is town.


This is the most progression of reads concerning Tri before Tri's rushed reads list, which Tokzic commented about:



--

For the record I disagree that the post he was talking about at the end there deserves town points. Tri is literally saying he is running out of time and will give us less content then plan. That's pretty non-indicative.

Not gonna quote fix this, but finally a post I strongly like from you.

Maybe you won't be next.

Maybe.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Necro reads lists:

+ > Positive impression of player via reads
- > Negative impression of player via reads
~ = Net neutral impression or N/A

=======

Roundbox:

3) inDheart > +
5) Celirra > +
6) XelNya > -
8) Xiz > ~
9) Tokzic > ~
10) tiloco217 > -
14) DaBackPack > +
17) FreezinIce > +

Haku:

Haku doesn't really have the easiest reads to sleuth out. Alot of shade and paranoia and very little solid reads.

3) inDheart > +
4) MixMasterLar > +
5) Celirra > -
10) tiloco217 > -
11) DarkManticoreX2 > -
12) blindreper1179 > -
15) LightKnight924 > -
17) FreezinIce > -

AGGREGATED RESULTS (Similar reads):

tiloco > -

If you think the list is incomplete or missing info let me know

Let me double chedck I interpret this correctly:

The sections of this are divided into reads the players in question had before they died?

I rly wanna make sure I understand this properly.

And so we end, on current reads list from me.

Wouldn't lynch 100%:

FreezinIce - Been liking you since D0, keepin' that alive because I lack a reason to adjust you.

Leaned town:

inDheart - I dunno why but I can't bring myself to put you anywhere else.
Tokzic - I wanna see where the inqueary goes before adjusting you again.
Celirra - I'm mad you won't make a push, but it's not that you're not forth coming with your thoughts, and ideas for whom you'd do it to.
DarkManticoreX2 - tho that eod was mentioned to be kinda trashy, I need to follow up on this and adjust, but his current posts while scarce, aren't bad or too floaty for my taste.

Null:

Xiz - - - - - - - - - - - l >
DaBackPack l > > All of you have posts that feel more white noise, or just haven't actually had a contribution, or one worth noting on my end.
Blindreper1179 - - - - l >

Scum leaned

MixMasterLar - There's redemtion in sight for you maybe. MAYBE. But as it stands, you are arguably not a horrible lynch, and your flip I think, would give us pretty good info.
Wayward Vagabond - That Raeko post I quoted has me concerned. This one can change easily with townie oriented posts to come I hope.
tiloco217 - Mostly how that post you wrote from memory doesn't stick well to me. I've played LTWG with you, and your memory is fairly good.

Pure Scum pile

Soundwave- DO. ANYTHING. MORE. THAN. NOTHING. You are literally practically mocking us that you're wolf.

[XelNya]

Took like 30 extra mins

worth

[XelNya]

Oh I mseed up my vote tags

Soundwave-

[XelNya]

And someone is gonna be like

xel wai u no push lar

because his response matters, but there's a glaring issue in a town who is here but not fucking doing crap and just spouting trash

[XelNya]

Also man that drained me mentally.

But it feels good.

[Soundwave-]

Nyan nyan nyan.

I am cat.

Call me "Kitten"

Can cat be woof?

Only flip will tell.

[Soundwave-]

I'd post something useful but I don't feel like it and have business to attend to so I'll see ya in like, 12 or 18 hours or something.

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by Soundwave-

I'd post something useful but I don't feel like it and have business to attend to so I'll see ya in like, 12 or 18 hours or something.

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by Soundwave-

I'd post something useful but I don't feel like it and have business to attend to so I'll see ya in like, 12 or 18 hours or something.

Post something useful

[Soundwave-]

Sorry bub, not skipping school for twg.

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by Soundwave-

Sorry bub, not skipping school for twg.

[the sun fan]

votecount:
Lar (1)- blind
blind (1)- Lar
soundwave (2)- inDheart, Xel
tiloco (2)- Manti, Freezin
dbp (1)- Tokzic

[Soundwave-]

I think town Xel pressures Soundwave.

I'm trying to think who I would expect to be doing the pressuring, and while Xel isn't at the top of my list, I'd account that more to the fact that people, myself included, need to do a collective stepping up of game.

[Soundwave-]

Also, to clarify, I fully intend to be more proactive following my daily responsibilities and recovery from said responsibilities and failure to be more responsible the previous day. Hopefully by then more will have happened to comment on, as well.

[Celirra]

Brief thoughts on this night:

1) Light is making the bare minimum effort in my mind and isn't really... saying much to find wolves. Either disinterested town or wolf. Xel, I do wanna hear why you're so insistent on light being town.

2) I have trouble with a world where Xel/Light are W/W unless Xel is truly playing the obvious pairing game. W/T is possible for sure I think.

3) From there, I am actually a bit confident that Sound/Xel is W/T based on recent developments mostly; I wanna go back to D0 and look it over a bit but I doubt I'd find much, given how inactive Xel was.


So:

Between Xel/Light/Sound, I'd motion there as 1 to 2 wolves; Either Light/Sound (this made me giggle due to your names), or only Xel; unless Xel is really fooling me. I'd sooner say Xel/Sound than Xel/Light as W/W, but I'd even sooner say each of those pairs is W/T.

And, given that I'd sooner say Light than either of the other two cuties, following this procedure I'd be comfortable with Light/Sound for lynch.


But again, this is all over the night's analysis and some preconceived notions of the people in question, and is missing a lot of rigorous analysis of the game. I'm gonna go over and read back a bit (see: a bit more than a bit at the least).

[Celirra]

did I say light? I meant freezin

[Celirra]

I guess you two are similar in some ways and that might be why I read freezin as such, oops.

[Celirra]

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

Soundwave

I call wolf precognition.

I'm gonna bring attention to this too actually, and the replied to comment.

WRT that,

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Nah don't think light is a hit

I feel like to develop those thoughts on Soundwave while overlooking Freezin, is a bit.. silly; but, I also can't help doing similar so I might be silly too.
While it isn't distinctive evidence and I wouldn't throw down on it, it is things like this that make Freezin a bit suspicious




also, I don't remember if I got an explanation of this as I asked for actually, but I haven't looked over start of D1 in a little bit, I will do so after I post this and you can all laugh at me if I just did another silly thing.
I know he explained me but I want more detail. Who could the +1 be? Why this pairing specifically, or is it a matter of independent cases?

Originally Posted by tiloco217

don't let him slip by. xiz, celery, xel, +1 is a real world

also, for future and my own reference, dead EoD targets:

Originally Posted by roundbox

I'm gonna meta read Celery as TOWN for keeping consistency across games. As someone who has openly admitted to never being a wolf (and me reading him very correctly in the last turbo, a game I was actually trying in), I feel like he is playing to his standard this game.

I think I forgot to state a quick few things about Freezin last post that make me feel he is pretty much always town from my POV and relates to my concept of consistency.

Freezin's anger/abrasiveness started off at a low boil (telling MML to go "drink a glass of water") and has escalated into what you see now. His consistent aggression is of notice, and I don't think anything is necessarily out of place.
A shower thought made me recollect why Freezin is so concerned on the flimsy T/T reads that people are providing is because of something he said in the postgame of our previous bigTWG. He stated that getting into an open argument in thread seems to almost always get you townread, which he admitted was a strategy he used as a wolf to get some town cred. His partners were able to easily townread him by piggybacking off of this "hey a wolf wouldn't be this obvious and get into a fight, so this interaction MUST be t/t" logic which seems to pervade in FFR's analysis of common threads. Freezin being increasingly skeptic of this tactic being used to manipulate people is more along the lines of towniness, far from any "I'm gonna be a dickish wolf so I can distance myself from everybody" strategy.

Also, the Persona 5 thing LUL

Originally Posted by roundbox

tiloco

arm wrestle me, fuckers

[in reply to DBP]

Originally Posted by roundbox

cognitive dissonance, half a town point

Originally Posted by roundbox

air of suspicion around xel, will revisit this thought

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I'm fine with this being a wagon.

tiloco217

Originally Posted by Lightknight924

Thank you Soundwave.

I can only provide what I feel is true.


It's true that dabackpack is coming down hard on me, and that could be because he is either genuinely curious to my playstyle, or he is already aware and that he wants to use it as a picking point to accuse me of being a wolf. I've played with backpack for a few games now, and the meta I get from him is that he is often a player with an internal ambition that's often hidden behind an amicable approach from a town perspective. This is the root of my uneasiness.

I also feel like MixMasterLar is doing the same thing, and looking for the next easiest excuse to push for a lynch.

Originally Posted by Lightknight924

I'm going to leave my vote on DabackPack, because I feel that I'm being pushed against strongly, and that it's a deliberate move coordinated by the wolves to pile votes onto me. I'm not saying for sure that dabackpack is a wolf, only that he is a catalyst in a mislynch, if you guys choose to lynch me. I honestly don't have more to provide than this.

also for what it's worth, haku and round were both convinced of light as town. Maybe there was a wolf on the light wagon pressuring it.

[Celirra]

also I hope Xiz comes around to chime in eventually.


also I hope InD didn't walk into another pole, it'd be cool to hear his thoughts, he's still wolf leaning a bit for me.


also WV you replaced in then didn't do diddly, pls say something (I see you lurking now!!)


Also sup to the other quiet people who I'll hold off naming right now, like Tokzik and DBP and Hawaii

also has blind really contributed much this game...? I don't remember, so if he has he didn't do anything to leave an impact on me.