TWG CLXIV: Classics Man - Game Thread

[thesunfan]

back, KFC was closed

[thesunfan]

I'm at the point where I think I'm gonna vote for Shado tbh
Lar/W&B seem more townie than not and this is what I think Proph would do to a partner here

Xel is the hardest person for me to read rn, I won't clear him for voting for Shado but I do see the like... laziness kind of kicking in on his end imo

Haku is town so that leaves Jade, not too stellar posts at this point in the game, I agree that having them as a #2 is a fine 2nd choice

I don't actually think that this Shado is the same Shado as last game, but I do still think he's a wolf

his posts this phase and at EOD last phase reek of "I'm being pushed on correctly for reasons I think are bad" and his comments to Lar double that feeling imo

town is almost always completely fucked if we're wrong, but I don't really get the feel that wolves really WANT this lynch to go through, I don't at all feel like anyone has been posting in such a way as to give me this feeling, and that's the feeling I would expect if Shado was town

[MixMasterLar]

Did I miss that post that Proph was going to make for me or did he dip out after trying to imply that I was the one not engaging him?

Checked back a few pages but I didn't see it

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

town is almost always completely fucked if we're wrong, but I don't really get the feel that wolves really WANT this lynch to go through, I don't at all feel like anyone has been posting in such a way as to give me this feeling, and that's the feeling I would expect if Shado was town

Yeah, there's an awful lot of hesitance methinks. We can at least agree on that.

[Hakulyte]

Shado, why would you think that Xel thought you were the Vigi?

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I'm VT.
I think Xel was referring to me when he said that he knew who the vigi was because I was hard-townreading him last phase and he said he knew who the vigi was after saying "they could've easily nightkilled me"

Which makes him look a lot worse imo for voting me.

XelNya
CFD onto here, please!

I don't think is Witch is wolfy, but I know I'm town so I'll definitely selfpres if it comes down to it.

I'm refering to this first paragraph.

[Wineandbread]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Is this supposed to be a Russian accent? Cause I read it in a Russian accent..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpndHtdl9A

[Prophylaxis]

Some of Shado's posts that I thought were townie, tone-wise:

Originally Posted by Shado

C'mon. Don't stop posting. Tell me more about how you're never wolf here and why town fears you? Or tell me you're town and you're tired and you got frustrated with everyone townreading you
Talk to me

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

This reminded me that I wanted to look into the progression of your vote on me, because I remember asking what caused you to reverse your read on me and don't think I got a response.

Let's see: Townreading me all game, an example:

Townreading and more townreading. Starts to note in his read, but still townreads. Then, when I pushed on him for what I thought was a vigihunting slip
I'm gonna add the post he was responding to in this:


It's the first inkling of anything that could be inferred as Xel having suspicions of me. (attempt at having a bad narrative has the connotations of assuming negative intentions on my part). Nothing majorly alignment indicative here

...
then..

BAM, an openly voiced suspicion and a vote out of nowhere (will bolden parts about me that I want clarification on) :



So, Xel. I asked you this earlier and didn't get a response.

What caused you to reverse your read on me so quickly? Any specific posts come to mind?
Also, what's your opinion on the question you asked everyone in your read of me? Why hide your opinion, despite already posting a vote and a scumread of me?


and then this right before EoD ^


There's so little progression here overall
Like, please explain to me how you went from such a strong townread to such an instantly voteworthy scumread in the short span of The Thunderdome

From Shado, this was a very solid case on Xel that I agree with.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

That's everyone except me, you, and MML, right?

I'm hesitant because I'm not solid on these answers. Hence why I said "reluctant" town PoE.

I think Wabby is the likeliest town there. He hasn't seemed to push an agenda, and his scumread of me yesterday seemed to come from a genuine place.
Proph seems towny to me as well, but I hesitate here because, if MML is wolf, I think Proph could be a likely partner. I say that 'cause of a post of Proph's that threw up some alarm bells in my head in his section on MML. Swa it while doing Xel's ISO, so not 100% sure where to find it, but I can look if you want me to later.

I think Jade is always a wolf here. The only hesitation I have about Xel is that he's written posts this phase who I think are his partners, and I don't think that's a very wolfish thing to do at mylo
I don't want to give up reading sunfan, but holy shit is he hard to grasp. I feel like I had a point earlier when I said I could see him pushing hard to lynch me as wolf, so the lack of that is slightly towny, but I could also see him reasoning that there's no reason to risk leading the lynch and instead trying to direct stuff from the shadows.

Sunfan's a damn good wolf. I really hate giving that reason, but I find myself thinking "if, but" a lot when it comes to him. I think, if he's a wolf, we'd be better off lynching someone else today.


sorry, just realized this post might not be very legible to read
I kinda just typed while thinking, but whatevs

Good progression on reads.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Reading Xel has made me question more than I'd like.
His ISO is weird, but not all bad.

The quoted post, for instance, is pretty towny because I think wolfXel would take advantage of people (Haku in this case) saying that me and AA are always W/T. Instead, he said "bad" a hundred times at Haku's logic that me/AA are always different factions.

This post shows that he has no agenda with regards to his Xel scumread. He's scumreading Xel, sure, but he's willing to take in new information and think about things differently.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

We've been through this. I was looking in the wolfgames to find examples of you wifoming, because MML said you NEVER wifom as wolf.


We've been through this. I did explain differences in my meta, but there's literally no way I hypothesize openly about self-made generalizations about me, that could be quoted out of context forever, even if they may not accurate to begin with. Not happening.

You didnt support that world at all. You unvoted despite being told I would always self pres. That mightve been a reaction test or hesitation or whatever reason you had, but that isn't because you supported me. Xel would've flipped if what you're saying was true.

.. We're at mylo with 0 lynched wolves. Town's been wrong all game.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

"seeing his flip" is so passive. You're talking about ending the game here, there are no options except a successful lynch.
What miserable reaction are you talking about? Are you saying you're "reading me scum" because of me feeling done with the game after spending ALL DAY in thread trying to prevent people from mislynching me?
That's just a bad read, and a bad reason for a read. You said you don't see me ever giving up as town, but you literally have no precedent to judge from. Go read my wolfgame last game. Go read the turbo before that. I'm fucking tenacious when all I have to do is twist people's words/intentions to divert suspicion off me. Look at me this game, I've literally done the opposite of that. Was I frustrated when a day of defending false accusations just led another player to vote me? Yes. Did I come back and try to clean up my game? Yes. At the time, my motivation was to prevent myself from being the cause of town losing. Now, my motivation's changed. Even if I'm mislynched here, I won't beat myself up over it. I've fought, called out people, had better reads than the consensus, advocated for the lynches I believed in, and ended up misread hard. I don't even think town will win this game anymore, I just really don't want to lose in a sweep. Even that's starting to look unlikely, but I'll keep trying as long as I can. I'm really not a wolf, and you need to get off me if you aren't either.

I could be buying the AtE here, but I am willing to believe the bolded.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

To people saying I'm repeating the same thing over and over, you're clearly not reading my posts.
I've been trying to PoE since the start of this phase by slowly building a town base.
Aorn that is Haku, Wabby 100%.
I think sunfan is likely town as well, if I'm reading him right.
Proph would be close behind them but MML raises a good point in asking "what content" he's referring to when he townreads me. Almost like he tried a pocket and backed off, although idk why he'd try to pocket me of all people and why here. I guess if he's wolf he might just be trying to get townread for going against consensus, but I don't know.
MML I thought would be wolf if Proph was (see earlier read for deets) but I don't think thats the case after he called him out like that. I'd put him above Proph, actually.

That leaves Jade and Xel. Xel has some things that make me question his wolfiness (see earlier reads for this as well), which is why I've been saying Jade over Xel lately.

Also gtfo me with that "oh he's not reading people he's just being defensive" bullshit. Reason so many of my posts are defensive is because there's literally no point in leaving "after I die" type reads right now. If I die, game's done. Simple as that.

If Shado is a wolf here, I really don't think this is the type of read he'd make on me. I feel like he would try to appease me by saying I'm a top town or whatever, but this read on me has a lot of nuance and I'd be very impressed if he faked it as scum.

If Shado flips scum here I can't wait to eat crow.

[Wineandbread]

Here's where I'm at after reading AA/Shado stuff:

Town: Me, Proph, Haku, MML probably
Null: Jade, sunfan
Scum 60/40: Shado/Xel

It's honestly a toss up for me atm

[Wineandbread]

The other thing though is if I assume Jade and sunfan are both scum, Xel would make a lot more sense in this than Shado

However, without considering partners, I feel Shado is a better lynch

Does that make sense? That probably doesn't make sense.

[Prophylaxis]

I still want to lynch in between Xel/Jade!

I don't really see how Jade is hunting scum with their last couple of posts; they've just been telling people to get off them:

Originally Posted by Jade Harley

still dont understand why youve been dogging me the entire game and your never here to explain it when im on its just shade me then dip so get out here you yellow bellied coward!!!

Originally Posted by Jade Harley

shaddap!! i dont care if haku is town (which he is in my mind) or wolf

those posts were objectively dumb!! (:

I presented reasoning as to why I wanted to lynch you in one of my big posts, IIRC. It's mostly wagon analysis + PoE. You really haven't done much to make me reconsider that read.

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by Wineandbread

The other thing though is if I assume Jade and sunfan are both scum, Xel would make a lot more sense in this than Shado

However, without considering partners, I feel Shado is a better lynch

Does that make sense? That probably doesn't make sense.

it doesn't

[Wineandbread]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Sometimes, I feel like TWG has made me a better person. More capable of listening. More understanding. More deliberate in my speech. More clear in meaning, and more attentive to perceived intentions and reactions. Better able to admit my faults and my mistakes,
Some days I feel addicted to TWG, unable to put my phone down or get off my computer until I'm 30 minutes late to a meeting, class, kick it, or date. Sometimes, I think of deadlines in terms of dayphases and feel doubtful I can get shit done if they coincide.
Some days I feel like TWG has made me a worse person. More snide, sardonic, and sarcastic. More uncaring and less empathetic, although potentially better at faking it. More impatient, more arrogant, and yet more unsure of myself all at once.
Some days I feel like I hate TWG. The fights, the anguish, the frustration. Misunderstanding others and being misunderstood by them. The false narratives that get spun around me until I'm in a cuccoon of falsehood waiting to die, or the ones spun by me to lure others to their demise through my lies.
But..
Most days..
Most days I feel happy to be here, guiding and being guided by others. Coming closer to truth or having it snatched away. Pitting mind against mind, melding or melting one another. Word against word, weighing one or weakening it, and worrying, or worming away. Personality against paranoid personality, pushing and pulling, pulsating together to discover shared stances and identical ideas, or screaming letters through screens to see your way win in the end.
Whatever the kind of day it is, I love this game, and you're all pretty incredible for playing it with me.

This feels a little too poetic

[Wineandbread]

Is EOD tonight? I forget

[Prophylaxis]

EoD is tonight, yea.

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

Some of Shado's posts that I thought were townie, tone-wise:

His tone has been bad most of the game though, starting with his sudden push on Raeko

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

From Shado, this was a very solid case on Xel that I agree with.

There was alot of time and Shado development between most of Xel's posts. While I would have liked Xel to explained where he was coming from a little better, that was not a sudden flip on Shado like your boy is trying to spin it as.

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

Good progression on reads.

If you say so

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

This post shows that he has no agenda with regards to his Xel scumread. He's scumreading Xel, sure, but he's willing to take in new information and think about things differently.

Again, if you say so. He's also now saying I'm probably town as well but that doesn't make me think better of him.

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

I could be buying the AtE here, but I am willing to believe the bolded.

I'm not.

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

If Shado is a wolf here, I really don't think this is the type of read he'd make on me. I feel like he would try to appease me by saying I'm a top town or whatever, but this read on me has a lot of nuance and I'd be very impressed if he faked it as scum.

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

If Shado flips scum here I can't wait to eat crow.

I could make a joke here but if half your argument is a variation on "If I'm wrong here then I am shocked" while you are toting the unpopular opinion then chances are you need to rethink why you believe you are not wrong.

I feel underwhelmed right now, but at least you gave me more then one or two quotes.

[MixMasterLar]

Basically, Proph, you are not convincing me I am wrong on Shado and you fail to present to me a believable world where he is town. Put the Kool Aid down and actually look at Shado's game. At this stage he's repeating insults, even. That's not the play of a town who is trying to prove his towniness by helping town.

[Prophylaxis]

Just.

Is there anything I can say (or do) to make you possibly re-evaluate your Shado read? Because if there's nothing I can do, then it's a waste of time I think.

I am actually considering the world where I get pocketed by Shado here but then what is the scumteam? I'm a little wary because people say that he has a good scumgame but I've never experienced it, so.

Maybe I'm just wrong here?

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by Wineandbread

The other thing though is if I assume Jade and sunfan are both scum, Xel would make a lot more sense in this than Shado

However, without considering partners, I feel Shado is a better lynch

Does that make sense? That probably doesn't make sense.

Im just going to throw out there, and I'm sure SunFan would agree, that at this stage it doesn't seem out of ScumFan's range to bus Shado.

Rather SunFan is actually scum this game I think we will revisit tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

I still want to lynch in between Xel/Jade!

I don't really see how Jade is hunting scum with their last couple of posts; they've just been telling people to get off them:

They're not, and we will need to revisit that tomorrow.
but I ain't rolling the dice on Xel/Jade when I'm this sure that Shado is a hit.

Originally Posted by Wineandbread

This feels a little too poetic

As Swan Songs often are.

[TWG Jade Harley]

hoi eod is in like an hour

wheres shado at?

@proph those obviously arnt scumhunting posts those are haku is being dumb posts!!

and every time you make a point about me its about my lack of scumhunting...

actually read my posts and youll see im trying to make sense of things as best as i can

and if thats not scumhunting, then what have you been doing all game??

¯\_(ツ)_/¯