TWG CLXIV: Classics Man - Game Thread

[AragakiAyase]

sunfan if you use ltwg/secret hitler to read shado on forums I will be disappointed

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I'm not a wolf, but I usually prefer outtalking people. I came pretty close to leaving you alive last game, but took the easier route instead.
You're right, though, specifically for this game. I said "usually" because I don't feel like I can out talk anyone atm. I've already spent too much time here this D0, and am now playing catchup with IRL stuff as a result.

Still, I don't understand the purpose of your post. If you're town, you draw a nightkill and frame me in the same breath by writing what you wrote. Why create that risk?

because I have more respect for (most of) the players in this game to not think on lvl 1 and associate my death with exactly one world

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

his adamance that Shado is town is kind of concerning, I know he does that sometimes when he's a wolf and can't believe that someone is getting pushed on, that's my only reservation

If I'm gonna get D0'd and defending myself isn't something I'm good at, isn't the least I can do is assert a town read for later?

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

and the few quotes I just posted make me think there's almost always one wolf between them, maybe even two just because of how odd that interaction is

I have a question for you.

What are the odds that my post @1235 was made before seeing haku stupidly throw out he thinks me and shado are wolves, to you? Because the way you quoted it and posted this part makes it look like you're trying to say shado and I cordinated (and with wolf chat 24 / 7 alright fair enough) but that's not what was going on there because you can probably imagine I was busy adding my parts into:

Originally Posted by TWG Jade Harley

i had a few regarding you!

your early play was really not good

I even stated as such.

it was full of snark and the opening callout on aa was really wierd! but its ok because that was early in the game and nobody was serious anyways

Fun fact. I actually do still think AA was try-harding more than he usually does. His shit-posting makes me even more weary even. BUT HIS LATER CONTENT IS GOOD AND AA IS HARD TO READ.

If you get my drift.

then you made this post which took the weirdness to the next level! you were complaining about shitposting when up till that point all your posts amounted to pretty much that

Just went over this I think well enough.

every post since then until your somewhat big one recently has been either quick quips or a single read! but your progression seems really...weak?

maybe weak is the wrong word??? simple maybe??? i dont really get a sense of how you think or why you think people are town and you dont explain it that well! and you dont really have scumleans that i can see

That's because I haven't shared, because I am specifically avoiding walls, which is a pretty big change to how I've played for a while. It's a more a feeling out the adjustment thing. I'm not gonna say this a moot point, because it's a good one. But that's my explanation.

so overall its hard to move you from null in my mind because you havnt done anything that is really transparent or clearly town behavior, its been kind of cryptic!

On being cryptic:

something like this is a good example! why is that town behavior in your eyes? what do you think about the backlash that attitude received? is he still town for you?

Gonna bold the parts.

It explains his meta read, it explains what she's doing that is making his read valid. I also agree with the read. The intent of this post is 100% townie 100% of the time. And in D0 getting a post this strong that doesn't make me paranoid will net you a town read at least for a while.

Short hand is he used this as a way to push his reads, get her to react, which resulted (post me making note he was in my town pile for it) in a stronger read for me.

or I guess the short hand is, the narrative you either intentionally or unintentionally painted by lumping "On the last part, he followed up strongly.

Shado's totes not getting lynched anytime early game if he keeps up his current course." 's post in there makes it look like maybe I'm reacting to Haku a little stronger than I actually did... Till well, the post I made after it.

I hadn't seen Haku's post when I was making this one. I'd been asked what I liked about shado, so I was explaining it, making it a point to use one of the posts I had quoted intentionally.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

oh by the way xel

the haku read was 99% exaggerated

Admittedly I probably did that because the back and forth with shado had me pretty mad tbh

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

sunfan if you use ltwg/secret hitler to read shado on forums I will be disappointed

then get disappointed, nerd, cuz its gonna happen
I get that video =/= forum, but they aren't too different

for instance I think inDheart is almost exactly the same between the two.
I think you're almost exactly the same between the two.

I don't really see why its any different than meta, albeit a slightly different kind of meta

[thesunfan]

I honestly feel like I already noticed what he did in Secret Hitler in his posts from last game, so I think it holds

I just didn't notice it until Secret Hitler

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

because I have more respect for (most of) the players in this game to not think on lvl 1 and associate my death with exactly one world

Or because you think you can't/won't get nightkilled.

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Or because you think you can't/won't get nightkilled.

yeah, yeah

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

I honestly feel like I already noticed what he did in Secret Hitler in his posts from last game, so I think it holds

I just didn't notice it until Secret Hitler

I hardly spoke in Secret hitler. I think I said like three lines, two of which were "I don't understand this game" and "jrodd is a liar"
I'm sorry if I have trouble comprehending your magical tell that you gained from that

[AragakiAyase]

@xel 1235 plausible yeah

Originally Posted by thesunfan

then get disappointed, nerd, cuz its gonna happen
I get that video =/= forum, but they aren't too different

for instance I think inDheart is almost exactly the same between the two.
I think you're almost exactly the same between the two.

I don't really see why its any different than meta, albeit a slightly different kind of meta

but can you even read me on forum

I think one of my tells on video is that when asked to give reads, I will falter a little before giving them because I have to fake it. that absolutely doesn't hold true for forums because it's not real-time

gl with your approach, I strongly disagree with it, real-time vs not is all the difference there needs to be

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by XelNya

What are the odds that my post @1235 was made before seeing haku stupidly throw out he thinks me and shado are wolves, to you?

Thiz guy makes me sad. Rejecting my creative ideas instead of just laughing and being like "hahaha, Haku, let me tell you why you're wrong~"

#disappointment

[Witch of Certainty]

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

i


lol why is it necessary to nitpick between scum reads or scum leans

fine, do you have any people that you find even remotely scummy?

it doesn't matter that it's been retracted, for all I know he could be just making an explanation up. as it is I find it somewhat plausible, but I don't think he's anywhere near out of his wolf range with his content this game

both actually do have to do with it, the one where xel strongly asserts that shado is town is part of making sure they're not seen as w/w. it's even more interesting that he seems to care more about how shado is read than he himself is

Because it's not a nitpick, I actuallly think the two are different? Reads, both scum and town, are thoughts based on analysis/deduction with a solid case behind them, you're saying you have concrete proof towards a person's alignment. Leans are just leans, thoughts based on impressions/senses/gut feelings of townishness/scumminess without much concrete behind them.

no, shoot me, go on

Okay, but why is he a wolf? And no, being "in his wolf range" is far from enough.

In the first of his two posts he quoted, he explains (pretty well) how he sees a post of Shado's as townish and says he's not getting lynched anytime early on the way he's going. I don't see how that is strongly defending Shado himself as town, only saying that he has at least one good post and isn't likely to be lynched if he keeps it up.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

I don't see why you're being so stubborn and narrow-minded about this

you seem to want people to word things extremely precisely, and then if what people offer up doesn't exactly match said definition then you take issue with it

I never even considered that someone would have a problem with "scum reads" vs "scum leans", and imo those two aren't even different, one is a subset of the other (scum leans are a subset of scum reads, just on the weaker end of the spectrum)

I also don't appreciate how you're trying to discredit me with the "Does seem like they're both fixed on that, hm?" if you have energy to be snarky then surely you have energy to come up with more than a few town leans

lol
See above for why I say there's an actual difference.

Ah, I wish I had the energy and power to come up with things from nothing. Guess I'll just stick to my town leans then.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

I don't like the fact that you're just hanging on sunfan's word for who to vote next

what if sunfan is a wolf? You don't even seem to be considering that possibility, and if you're town that's not good. even if you are strongly townreading someone, unless it's mechanical you always have to keep in mind the possibility that you're wrong, and at the very least it'd be less worrisome if you were to show some independent thought processes as to who you have suspicions of, rather than handing it 100% over to someone whose alignment you don't know if you're town. add to this the fact that sunfan is a strong player and it's even more concerning

I didn't say I'd be compelled to follow his lead.

what if! what if he's town, what if he's the vig, or the wolf RB? I don't know, all I know is that I feel like he's town and has reliable judgement, so I'm willing to follow what he thinks in the absence of having come up with anything I want to pursue myself. That is not saying "sunfan is town and I'll vote whoever he does without explanation!"

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

one more thing: why do people have to be "scummy enough" to vote? why can't you just pressure vote people, or vote people you have a mild suspicion of? voting people doesn't mean they'll definitely be lynched, in fact it often doesn't even mean you're scumreading them. and what is "scummy enough" anyways?

Pressure voting anyone besides a new player is silly, anyone with some experience can tell when not to be afraid of a vote. A mild suspicion doesn't justify a serious vote to me, deal with it. To me, it should, or at least that you have enough of a case on them that you're willing to declare your intent to see them lynched if it sticks. "Scummy enough" means you can bring a concrete case to show that they're scum.

[Hakulyte]

Post 1235 contains the magic words "The intent of this post is 100% townie 100% of the time."

That certainty, it's like you're a witch of numbers~

[MixMasterLar]

SunFan

I feel like you're sidestepping my questions with that "You're too green to say that to me" bit and that's something that I don't think is a towny trait of anyone's

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

but can you even read me on forum

...
alright, let's not fight

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

I'm saying that I think that Shado is in a bad place if he's a wolf
few people have the drive to continue posting in the manner in which he is likely to continue posting based on interactions and shit this game, and that's as both alignments, it gets even harder for wolves.

I feel like I can read him based on two different tells (one I only noticed in lTWG so I'm not positive it'll hold up and I haven't had the chance to see it yet), so he does have to take a chance if he's a wolf between killing me and attempting to get townread by me.

Shado is not clear if I live through the night, and he shouldn't be damned if I die, but if he's a wolf and I'm here tomorrow, I'm supremely confident I can dunk on him.

@lar
your question was not sidestepped, friend

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by Witch of Certainty

Because it's not a nitpick, I actuallly think the two are different? Reads, both scum and town, are thoughts based on analysis/deduction with a solid case behind them, you're saying you have concrete proof towards a person's alignment. Leans are just leans, thoughts based on impressions/senses/gut feelings of townishness/scumminess without much concrete behind them.

that's your definition of what "scum read" means, what I'm asking is if you have any reads that are on the scum side, if I must be so clear

no, shoot me, go on

Okay, but why is he a wolf? And no, being "in his wolf range" is far from enough.

he's a wolf because he's not being towny and because he seems to care more about how shado is read than himself. keep in mind I'm not asking you to sheep me here, I'm asking you to show a grain of independent thought wrt to scumreads

In the first of his two posts he quoted, he explains (pretty well) how he sees a post of Shado's as townish and says he's not getting lynched anytime early on the way he's going. I don't see how that is strongly defending Shado himself as town, only saying that he has at least one good post and isn't likely to be lynched if he keeps it up.


lol
See above for why I say there's an actual difference.

Ah, I wish I had the energy and power to come up with things from nothing. Guess I'll just stick to my town leans then.

hahahahahaha gj twisting what I said, but if you can't come up with anything you find suspicious then again, nagl

I didn't say I'd be compelled to follow his lead.

what if! what if he's town, what if he's the vig, or the wolf RB? I don't know, all I know is that I feel like he's town and has reliable judgement, so I'm willing to follow what he thinks in the absence of having come up with anything I want to pursue myself. That is not saying "sunfan is town and I'll vote whoever he does without explanation!"

but that's the whole problem: you're essentially doubling someone else's vote while simultaneously not thinking for yourself

Pressure voting anyone besides a new player is silly, anyone with some experience can tell when not to be afraid of a vote. A mild suspicion doesn't justify a serious vote to me, deal with it. To me, it should, or at least that you have enough of a case on them that you're willing to declare your intent to see them lynched if it sticks. "Scummy enough" means you can bring a concrete case to show that they're scum.

you don't need a concrete case to think someone is scum. you also don't need a concrete case to get other people to think someone is scum. pressure voting can do wonders for players of all experience, because a pressure vote can easily turn into a more serious vote if not addressed.

responses in bold

[AragakiAyase]

witch pending xel, no suspicions at all is and I will repeat this as many times as it needs to be said, nagl

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

fine, do you have any people that you find even remotely scummy?

Originally Posted by Witch of Certainty

no, shoot me, go on

[AragakiAyase]

quoted from the wolf himself last game

Originally Posted by j-rodd123

yes but im realizing now i have mostly villager leans #NOTAGOODLOOK

[thesunfan]

@witch, who is your strongest townread?
I know you had to have posted it somewhere, but refresh my memory please

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

It also has to do with the way you are commenting on various things in the thread and asking questions to a lot of people, kinda like the post I am responding to. It's just a town lean since you were pretty null for me before, but I wouldn't want to lynch you today basically

ok, noted

Originally Posted by Witch of Certainty

no, shoot me, go on

Wait, no scum leans? At all?

Pressure voting anyone besides a new player is silly, anyone with some experience can tell when not to be afraid of a vote.

I wasn't afraid of AA's vote last game but it totally wrecked my shit all the same.

So you're pretty misguided with this assumption