TWG CLXIV: Classics Man - Game Thread

[AragakiAyase]

MML first mentions raeko (not remembering her) in post 303

shado pings her in 382 (not very directly, but w/e)

MML calls her out for going UTR in 445, mentions policy lynch

shado says mellon feels defensive in 504 with respect to being called UTR, I said he was shading her here

so MML was actually the one who brought up the topic first

shado pushes a bit more in 722 and 729, and then MML pushes a lot more in 763

so I don't think I have the timeline wrong, MML was actually the one to mention raeko first, you (shado)

now let me see if I actually like how you did your push

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

Do yourself a favour a read the thread. at this point it seems you have misremembered (perhaps intentionally?) several things.

y so hostile?
I haven't misremembered anything.
What "several things" are you referring to? Care to remind me?

[Charu]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

who?

@ShadoWolfe

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by roundbox

Looks like calling you utr is the hip, new, fake scumhunting thing

It is as dumb as the one that affects mr. Dabackpack

I don't necessarily disagree with what he's saying, but his insistence on dropping my meta feels like an appeal to me, or maybe a pocket attempt

[mellonxcollie]

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

And yes I'm being super defensive about this because it's really annoying.

I responded because you made it seem like I only won as SK because of other people's bad play, which is not only insulting but has nothing to do with this game. And I've had this thrown in my face countless times and I am sick of it.

I've also seen a lot of time been wasted and many mislynches due to people not being "active enough" day 1 and it's annoying even when it is done to others. It's a stupid way to play the game and makes us lose so yeah I'm going to respond

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

What hottake?

What shading of mellon?
Do you consider "and mellonxcollie" to be "throwing shade", so to speak?

Not at all very impressed with the larger "reads list" post this came from, tbh..

going through your ISO, why is there so much shading of people in it shado?

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

@ Number 2:

They're strange, but I wouldn't say wolf yet. It's more like "why are you acting like wolves?" and "what are you trying to accomplish out of it?".

I think we need to figure out intentions of why they're doing what they're doing first and the best way to do that is to ask them directly so..

@AA / sunfan / DBP

Can you answer these two questions in bold?

I thought it was funny

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

you just have to make it known that you're an alt
ps Haku's right Harley is FreezinIce

are you being serious here?

[mellonxcollie]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

y so hostile?
I haven't misremembered anything.
What "several things" are you referring to? Care to remind me?

You seem to think I called you wolfish or a wolf. Can you quote where I did that? You can't, because it never happened

You also clain that I "blew up" at your ping, despite there being multiple posts in between which I was obviously responding to. I was not responding to your ping in those posts, so where is me blowing up at you for simply saying "mellonxcollie"? Think you've misremembered that too

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

OK, mostly caught up?

I'll look into this more deeply in a bit, but from now on, can you not remove the link to the post you're quoting when you quote posts? it makes it harder to validate what you're saying, as well as analyze the context of what you're posting

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by TWG Jade Harley

[This will be my only character breaking post. Since there seems to be confusion that is distracting people, I am freezin and this is an alt I made specifically to roleplay as Jade Harley, which I will be doing for the duration of this game following this post. I will be active tonight after work. *ollies out*]

wow

I am choosing to not let this affect my reads-making attempts tho

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

going through your ISO, why is there so much shading of people in it shado?

His reads mostly echoed things that had been said, with Charu and one or two other people being notably different than previous things dropped in thread. I called him out on it. I was actually hoping he'd respond to that at the time, but whatever. There a problem?
You should be familiar with my playstyle, is there anything that stood out?
I call em how I seem em, where I see em, when I see em. I've always played like this. If you don't like it, idk what to tell you.

[AragakiAyase]

here's most of shado's progression on mellon, please read the spoiler

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Hah! You were on my mind cause of "hiiiiiyoooooo" and then 0posts after, not even a "geez so many shitposts! I'm out, night!"
But yeah that isn't alignment indicative imo, I only said I wanted to see more of yoy. Funny that you're so defensive about it, though...

shado shades raeko here for being overly defensive, after she'd been called out by MML and then shado for not posting much

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

In the postgame of the game itself, when responding to everyone hating on you for succeeding at staying UTR:

Go read the postgame, you wouldn't have even made it close to the end if not for staying UTR. The "dumbtell" only helped towards the end.




Maybe. But saying "And mellonxcollie" in response to Haku's "Requesting a TWG Jade Harley post." after she popped in with a "hiyo" and disappeared isn't quite the same thing, wouldn't you agree?

he then goes on to say that her victory in the SK game was largely due to being UTR, which understandably makes mellon mad

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Unvote
Say what you'd like about lame/annoying metareads, but my vote's going on mellon if she doesn't start posting.

In the game she won as SK by being UTR, she told "her haters" to suck it up 'cause it worked out for her. The following game (FE), she was wolf again and won by replacing an inactive Zenith and remaining mostly UTR for the rest of the game. While I applauded that at the time, both times, what tends to happen when you play back-to-back UTR strats is that you neatly get that added to your meta. If you don't like it, play a couple of active wolf games to change your meta. As it is, I don't care how high the horse is you're trying to be on by saying that reading you by activity is annoying. Post, or get lynched.

what's great about this part is that she hasn't posted anything since earlier up until here, and now it's coming to ultimatums already "post or get lynched", yet he's unwilling to even vote her for pressure?

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Not as out of the blue as you might think. Read her ISO. Nine posts total this game, seven of which are defending herself by calling everyone who's noted her absence a wolf.

mellonxcollie til further notice

and then after charu says that this is out of the blue, then he votes mellon? why do you have to say "until further notice", why didn't you vote her initially, and then

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

lol she posted a lot last game, and she only slowed down towards the end.
The reason people were townreading her from D0? She was actually present.
Idgaf at this point. There's other people still in the background since the shitpost phase ended (witch, DBP, freezin, xel, roundbox to a certain extent), but it's odd to me that she's been able to come in to defend herself and tell Charu that she's here and he should talk, but then having nothing else to add.
Also weird that she thinks anyone who notes her absence is a wolf.

this post is just in here, continue to the next one please

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I was planning on just leaving the first post and moving on with my life, but she explicitly said the only way to pressure her is to leave a vote.

see:

why do you feel the need to justify your voting her in terms of what she said? I see nothing wrong with the pressure vote in and of itself, but the way in which you made it combined with your justification of it seems gross

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Why's that?
Something a little more specific than "she seemed genuine" would be nice, please.

now he wants haku to give something more specific for him townreading her, but she still hasn't posted anything more or content, so how is that a reasonable expectation?

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Look..

What I see is a tilted raeko who's tired of being wolf read based on activity.
I also see an excessively defensive raeko who specifically called me wolfish for saying "and mellonxcollie" in response to you saying you wanted to see more of Jade Harley.
I see that same raeko leaving after leaving a couple of seemingly genuine comments outlining how upset she is. If there's one thing she excels in, it's posting seemingly genuine comments about an event that affects her.

The way I see it:
a) she can start sharing her thoughts and posting some stuff in thread
b) she can continue to fixate on people wanting her to post more, leaving defensive comments, and disappearing after doing so
c) she can say she's busy, post a little tidbit here and there, and stay largely UTR

In cases b and c, I'm 100% fine with keeping my vote and seeing her lynched.
If case a starts to happen, I'll likely be moving my vote.

It's literally that simple.

more ultimatums here, it's not always black and white. I think shado is playing very level 1 here with respect to mellon and I know he's not a level 1 player

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

are you being serious here?

I haven't seen anything in rules about that specifically tbh.

The only thing I saw was that alts couldn't impersonate other players.

I just assumed that alts were supposed to tell who they are as well, but apparently I'm wrong.

[mellonxcollie]

People that seem towny to me so far:

I like Haku. He seems genuine. The vote on himself is just ? but seems like something town Haku would do. It seems kinda ballsy for a wolf to do for no reason

Lar has bad reads imo but I think that makes him look more towny in my eyes?

Proph's read list seemed good to me and the content he's had while he's been around looks good. Mostly a tone thing for this read

AA seems pretty good at least for today. He's been asking a lot of questions from multiple different players and he seems like the town AA I'd expect

I liked thesunfan's reads list as well, but I found the style he posted them in to be a bit odd, since I haven't seen him write many "essays" like that recently. However I liked the content of his posts

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

I like Haku. He seems genuine. The vote on himself is just ? but seems like something town Haku would do. It seems kinda ballsy for a wolf to do for no reason

Yey you like me!

...for self-voting?

ugh.

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

His reads mostly echoed things that had been said, with Charu and one or two other people being notably different than previous things dropped in thread. I called him out on it. I was actually hoping he'd respond to that at the time, but whatever. There a problem?
You should be familiar with my playstyle, is there anything that stood out?
I call em how I seem em, where I see em, when I see em. I've always played like this. If you don't like it, idk what to tell you.

I'm fine with you calling people out, I'm not fine with how you're doing it

you seem to be wording it so that it comes across as more subtle and serves to make the player look bad without so much encouraging them to change their behavior and do things differently. the end result is that you can continue to be "suspicious" of them while not even really pointing out clearly what you dislike and why you dislike it. so essentially, free suspicion with no threat of a pushback

first you did it to mellon, then charu in the next post, then proph, and there may be more examples that I've missed

to clarify what I mean, here's what you're doing and here's what I think is not shading, yet still getting your point across:

shading: "funny that you're so defensive about it, though..."
not shading: "why are you so defensive about someone calling you out for not posting?" (of note is that this is more how MML is doing it, which is probably why I like how he's pushed on mellon more)

shading: ".... Nice! Not sure if omgus or opportunistic, but whaaatever."
not shading: "what's up with the sudden switch here? I can't tell if you're being opportunistic or omgusing here"

shading: "Not at all very impressed with the larger "reads list" post this came from, tbh.."
not shading: "didn't really like this reads post, it feels like it could have used more x y and z. proph, can you do x y and z? why didn't you?"

I realize I'm nitpicking heavily on wording here, but I think it's important because this is something I see wolves do a lot: they shade someone without trying to get them to actually change their behavior

[mellonxcollie]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Yey you like me!

...for self-voting?

ugh.

yes that is one reason. Also your posting style and casualness of your tone, it seems very natural

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

Lar has bad reads imo but I think that makes him look more towny in my eyes?

Would you say rather that while you think his reads you can at least say the proper work is there

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

yes that is one reason. Also your posting style and casualness of your tone, it seems very natural

Self voting is almost always bad

What