TWG CLXIII: Allies and Adversaries 2 - GAME THREAD

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by inDheart

well i suppose this has merit too

you guys not having doublecross to pass the time must have sucked

Whoa whoa whoa..

Can you explain that for me? Why does "not having doublecross to pass the time" suck? How does doublecross pass the time?
All tiredness aside, this really seems like its written from the perspective of someone playing on a wolfteam with doublecross..
Like, I try to read every post as if they were written from town or scum perspectives, and this one just doesn't make sense unless you're wolf with a doublecross teammate (or you're doublecross yourself).

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Whoa whoa whoa..

Can you explain that for me? Why does "not having doublecross to pass the time" suck? How does doublecross pass the time?
All tiredness aside, this really seems like its written from the perspective of someone playing on a wolfteam with doublecross..
Like, I try to read every post as if they were written from town or scum perspectives, and this one just doesn't make sense unless you're wolf with a doublecross teammate (or you're doublecross yourself).

straight fire

[ShadoWolfe]

Just finished a skim of meno's ISO. Not too sure because he's really devoid of content aside from two posts about disliking AA this game, but I'm putting him as slight-town because his apathy just seems like generally his genuine attitude for D0. If I had to guess, I'd say he hasn't given a fuck about sharing shit because he undervalues the info you can get from simply engaging in discourse with other players (which is sort of evidenced by his "summary of everything that's happened so far").

I disagree with his outlook on D0, but I don't think that necessarily stems from a scummy mindset. Slight-town for now, but this will be heavily dependent on his play from tomorrow onwards (as he won't have the D0 excuse).

[XelNya]

I did this a lot more differently than usual, in case you're like "wait xel wtf is dis"

Mellon:

This is the only post from page one that has any value

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

omg game is finally here

so i guess the new wolves are smarter than we were

This post is bad for a really important reason. It comes off as a cover via "I didn't roll wolf twice in a row."

I really dislike this post. If it wasn't a bit of a shit-post I'd have instantly scum read you for it.

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

I'm not saying it is less likely to happen in the future, I'm saying it's less likely that they used it during Night 0. If they used their sabo power and then not make a kill on the same target, it would be a complete waste of the power and they wouldn't be able to use it for another whole night phase.

there could have been some sort of other role that blocked the kill somehow or something, I'm not sure in this setup.

Tone-wise this post is good. Content-wise, my complaint is that she should know that sabo is two night cool down, not one, and you should know if blocking a kill is possible (hint: there's three possible ways.) Especially if you played in the last game.

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

ok let's see

people I feel pretty good about:
Shadow
Xel
Jrodd
inD

Not sure:
Xiz
AA
Meno
Haku

Bad feeling:
V - Where are you V? Contrasts sharply to the interest you were showing in the game/setup last week. and I know you have been know to go UTR as a wolf. Either way you're not helping progress the game much and I'm getting sketchy vibes
Sunfan - vibes I'm getting. It is a tone read but it's like he is posting in a paranoid and stiff manner. When I get these vibes about Sunfan in the early game I always doubt and ignore them but I am usually right?

Why would you clarify the only the scum leans? No one expects a quote wall here but?

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

I liked how he dove right into the game without hesitation. He brought up a few points that had entered my mind, so it seemed like he was genuine in his reads. He focused on many different players which is a town like trait. I especially liked this post he made

Gonna actually say I like this post.

AA:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

xel is tryharding? wolf

xel

This post is really funny.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

yeah actually wouldn't they be dumber because there wasn't a night 0 kill?

actually there wasn't a night 0 kill

See this post gets me now that I kinda think on it.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

hey maybe the lack of nightkill means there's no sabo wolf

Originally Posted by inDheart

none of the wolves are wolf-immune though? what are you suggesting?

i just have to figure something else happened

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

no I mean in the first round didn't sabo use their power to ensure kill went through? or am I misremembering? wolves could be scared of self-kill

UHG. Now that I am rereading this I am liking you less and less. Because I don't think you'd actually speculate the wolves are scared of a self-kill, because the chances might be super random but statistically they probably have a super high chance of netting a town first go. Later in the game sure, you'd have more reason to be scared but not this early?

I dunno. This is feeling way more off to me than it did earlier.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

Sabo guarantees that they can hit a town, yes

if there's no sabo in the setup it puts the wolves at risk of self-kill, hence they might have no killed n0

worth keeping as food for thought

But you know and realize the stratigic nature of not going for the garunteed kill with no information? Like let me theory craft a little on mindsets here and it may just be how I'd approach it but there's like, zero reason to drop sabo unless you've never wolfed before and are scared? I dunno. I don't see the advantage of securing an early kill vs netting an informed one later.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

I don't care about that part

I care about why it seemed like you thought someone was townreading him and wanted to throw shade at that read (or at least that's how it seemed), and then you pass off the original question as passive aggressive sarcasm

you may misinterpret questions habitually but I'm being extra specific and you still seem to be misinterpreting what I say and it seems like you're doing it on purpose

This is a good post though. Gotta give you that.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

Don't understand how me not always doing exactly what I was thinking of doing is Wolfy
Gjge

Ew.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

what do you dislike about xiz posts so far? same with raeko? why do you have concerns about V but are fine with shado?

This post is a little more gross in hindsight. Because I played it off as "alright maybe he was just skimming."

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

jrodd do you have a read on me?

Wait.

Maybe xizu is actually onto something. I haven't seen his case as of writing this but?

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

what do you think of my response to shado? agree/disagree there?

....

Jrod:

Originally Posted by j-rodd123

Your tone sounds tryhardy, not sure if fake

Haven't you played enough with AA to know his tone is this disgustinly neutral one unless he's tilted?

Originally Posted by j-rodd123

Ok bed time no real reads yet no one seems wolfy xoxoxoxoxoxo

It's been forever since I've played with you, but didn't you used to be a lot more aggresive early on or am I full of shit / confusing it with live twg?

Originally Posted by j-rodd123

villa circle so far

jrodd
xelnya
indheart
xiz/raeko

Wai u no explain

Originally Posted by j-rodd123

it's a pressure vote, we can only see what one truly is when their back is against the wall

This is not something I'd expect you to say wtf is this shit

Haku:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Can someone explain me why thesunfan is town?

Oh for fuck's sake.

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

This is trolling.


After playing Turbo X with him, this follow up makes no sense to me.

Flashback to Turbo with KnightsoftheNee/thesunfan who talked about him not having an avatar as wolf. #role tide tier

Sounds staged because he's expecting lol early calls by people like me.
Bold is a direct reference to me.

Appeal to emotions kinda. Makes you want to just go like "yeah, I feel for ya man".

Anyway, he's kinda aggro red flag friendly for me.

My wording was sarcasm.

/cringe

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

If you're wolf, you should get voted.
If you're town, you should be worried for your life after I die.

gl

thesunfan

/stabs a kitten with a chainsaw

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I feel like I'm getting teamed by AA/thesunfan openly and I'm assuming that "if they're wolves", the most logical reason to get me lynched based on my flip would be because they can change my flip to red.

I'm assuming wolves had time to talk with each others during N0 and come up with some strats and they're both pretty capable players.

JEEZ this is actually a super good post from you.

Like, wow.

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

So, I've been wondering a few things;

1.) Why did no one die N0?
2.) Why aren't we doing something similar as the first game to take advantage of the setup?
3.) Is there some value behind claiming things to take advantage of the setup?
4.) Where's ShadoWolfe?

1. Why aren't you postulating your own thoughts as a starting point?
2. Why aren't you steering the game to that direction?
3. ???
4. Dicks.

Xiz:

Originally Posted by Xiz

anyway
AA wolf
sunfan probably wolf, will check again when I care
melon feels wolfy too

Xelnya feels really towny

idc about anyone else

Fuck me I'm pocketed at this point and I don't even notice it, way to go xiz for making me feel retarded

fuck me man xiz just stfu and take my town read

Originally Posted by Xiz

Xiz: I'm serious
AA: Why, show me the posts
Xiz: [Shows posts]
AA: You are not reading my posts correctly
Xiz: Cool, but I read them like this
AA: Okay cool, but your wrong.
Xiz: Nah I think i'm right.
AA: But your wrong.


There I did our conversation.

I also missed this post originally.

How. It's funny af because it's true af.

V:

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

peeked AA green

balance of probability suggests the vigi died last night

I still don't get it.

/side note: being too lazy to go through his later posts around like pg 30, I love those posts.

Sunfan:

Originally Posted by thesunfan

you may be right

Baring xiz, he is right.

Originally Posted by thesunfan

xel, you feel weird to me

That early ping.

Originally Posted by thesunfan

I like haku a lot
I like raeko almost as much, watch me be wrong on her though
while I was eating just now, I got a townread on shado. I think it makes sense for him as town to notice that I'm being different and ask why. Even after I responded he seemed kinda skeptical and I kinda like that.
meno is my n0

wolves are outside of that
I don't really dislike anyone other than xel atm

This is a townie greggles post

this is what townie greggles looks leik

Originally Posted by thesunfan

its not really what I would or wouldn't expect from xel, its not something that I think most people say without it being forced

V is... concerning or whatever the exact words were don't really feel genuine. Yeah, V hadn't posted much, but concerning is a pretty broad word, especially to put at the end of a short thought like that. He hasn't really seemed too concerned by V either.

I dunno if you think me to be a player who would use a forced phrase or not. I'll just say it's just a wtf post, especially compared to the posts I got too lazy to go over later. Not being in the last game and only skimming it on breaks at work to pass time, if it's a joke I clearly would see it and be wtf.

InD:

Originally Posted by inDheart

haku can you explain your "chaos wolf confirmed" comment

Aye post is aye.

Originally Posted by inDheart

*gestures to the setup*

this is really early to say because
1. targeting is indirect
2. wolves must target humans (they can't set up you as one of their adversaries and paint you that way)

although a red flip would be pretty noisy for sure

Would you consider it a dumb-tell that Haku doesn't kow that wolves can use only one PR a night bar double cross?

Originally Posted by inDheart

i like this xel post he can be town for now

What is townie about it in your opinion?

ShadoWolfe:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Yo soonfun, what's with all your self-meta posts this game?

Aye.

241

I can kinda see it as an attempt to confirm if he's actually accomplishing a pocket or not. Sure.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I can't really see Haku doing this as town or scum tbh. Just doesn't seem like something Haku would come up with and implement.

Take easily provoked player
take player who does things he thinks will work
haku is smart enough to know that a lot of people can be provoked by him doing weird things in an at tempt to get the game going

I dunno. I could see it.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Fair enough. I guess I could see that as a basis for that question.


Why's this? Missed it the first time, but it didn't seem alignment indicative to me. Do you just like it when peeps say they don't know things?


It's not. A good part of your scumhunting is always forceful. I expect forcefulness from you. That part seemed off to me because it's what you were being forceful about that stuck out. It seemed like an inane thing to fixate on. Wasn't sure if you were just trying to pick something to be forceful about in attempt to seem town or not.


Yeah.. I think I might've been tunneling a bit at that point. A little over an hour ago, I would've sworn that you were a wolf who was scummily trying to frame me when I wasn't here.
Don't really think that's the case anymore after reading both my initial issues with you and your responses.


I read all the posts up until that point. I got the feeling she was being genuine. I said I wanted to look more closely into it, but that those were my initial thoughts. There a problem with that?



I thought it was redundant in that I thought he'd answer yes, but I thought it was a pointless thing to fixate on because he made it clear he thought you were acting scummy. I see where you're coming from, just not sure of your intentions.



All the rest of your posts? They seemed pretty par for the course, from what I remember. You're very hard to read, so I guess I might've fixated on what I thought was a bigger issue than it was in the hopes that I had caught you slipping. The fact that I responded to a post you hadn't even directed at me kinda shows me how tunneled I was, so I'ma reassess and move you back to null for now.

Love this post as a whole both tone-wise and content wise.

What alarms me though is the lack of being super disgustingly proactive.

Uhg I can't be fucked to do the rest of this, let me just sum up where I'm at atm.

1. j-rodd
2. inDheart
3. thesunfan
4. Raeko
5. Meno
6. ShadoWolfe
7. Vendetta21
8. AragakiAyase
10. Hakulyte
11. Xiz

Dark Orange is my lynch pool.
Teal is my I'm unsure, but I wouldn't lynch you. (Town lean.)
Regular text is my null list. (Type: Null.)
Green is townie pile no lynch today unless shit gets real.

[Vendetta21]

welp i finished the dishes and nothing new from anyone. i hope that i have not stalled the game bny making a convincing case against xiz, i think there are many good reading eyes besides the two i have

[Vendetta21]

Originally Posted by XelNya

V:

I still don't get it.

/side note: being too lazy to go through his later posts around like pg 30, I love those posts.

uhh what i'm one of the lowest postcount people in the thread why can't you dicipher my most recent posts i am not making subtle and elaborate plays everything i do is so basic and simple

[Vendetta21]

like you quoted my first post which is absent any reading, it was a;most a joke post. have you decided im not worth reading?

[Vendetta21]

xelnya do you have an internal tempo for d1 reads?

[Vendetta21]

it's always suspicious to me when someone reads greater than 50% town and just miraculously can't find anything wolfy early game

[Vendetta21]

they're all town, obviously! there is no one i want to lynch, ughh,, this is too hard just decide for me

[Vendetta21]

ok i am going to bed

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by Xiz

stop pushing false narratives to make you seem like you are tryharding.

Also melon shame on you for believing him.

Lmfao is this for real? Xiz are you wolfing? Resorting to calling me a liar because you can't actually do anything to me, just like in the turbo with funnygurl?

[AragakiAyase]

so let's see here

xiz calls me a wolf from the start, never gives a case on me on the grounds that I'll try to refute it, then goes to calling me a dirty liar with false pushes and lack of reading posts. I reISOd you just to make sure I wasn't missing something obvious, and no, I'm not. You call me a wolf, then refuse to give a case on me, refuse again, call me a wolf again, and now say I'm basically lock wolf and won't be moving your vote at all. I can understand the not moving if you're not going to be here, but you imply that you won't be moving because I"m a lock wolf, and I don't think town xiz is like this

Originally Posted by Xiz

anyway
AA wolf
sunfan probably wolf, will check again when I care
melon feels wolfy too

Xelnya feels really towny

idc about anyone else

Originally Posted by Xiz

stop pushing false narratives to make you seem like you are tryharding.

Also melon shame on you for believing him.

Originally Posted by Xiz

Xiz: I'm serious
AA: Why, show me the posts
Xiz: [Shows posts]
AA: You are not reading my posts correctly
Xiz: Cool, but I read them like this
AA: Okay cool, but your wrong.
Xiz: Nah I think i'm right.
AA: But your wrong.


There I did our conversation.

Originally Posted by Xiz

stop pushing false narratives to make you seem like you are tryharding.

Also melon shame on you for believing him.

Originally Posted by Xiz

Just as a reminder to everyone incase its forgotten:

I have little time to invest in this game but i'm trying to stay active. Walking to class and a few small things:


@AA Not just wolf but reading you in general, which is true. Also refer to my post about how our conversations go because NO TIME FOR DAT

@haku when you do something wired ill comment but your not on my radar

@aa im only unvoting because of v. read my posts, stop skimming.

Originally Posted by Xiz

stop pushing false narratives to make you seem like you are tryharding.

Also melon shame on you for believing him.

Originally Posted by Xiz

. j-rodd
2. inDheart
3. thesunfan
4. Raeko
5. Meno
6. ShadoWolfe
7. Vendetta21
8. AragakiAyase
9. XelNya
10. Hakulyte


town to wolfy read atm ill explain later otnight

xel
sunfan
jrodd
meno

(everyone else)

aa
raeko

Originally Posted by Xiz

You are a dirty fucking liar

I will probably not rest until you are dead.

Originally Posted by Xiz

stop pushing false narratives to make you seem like you are tryharding.

Also melon shame on you for believing him.

Originally Posted by Xiz

I'm getting triggered because AA continually fails to read my posts, fails to be open to opinions and pushes fake agendas.

aa

That's good enough for me for D1, I most likely wont be swapping.

Originally Posted by Xiz

I don't like a lot of what people have done this game.

- AA because of his lies, false pushes and lack of reading posts.
- Mellon because of her similarity to when I was a wolf with her last, along with I dislike how she sheep'd AA on AA's read on me, felt fake to gather steam. However Mellon for some reason is a little less wolfy then before to me, probably because of what sunfan thinks of her, i liked his analysis at the end on her.
- Sunfan could be a wolf, but I just said why. I still doubt it, and rather deal with him later then a dead sunfan d1.

Thats 3 haku so [shrug]

xiz is saying I'm not reading his posts because of what... The fact that I asked why he was unvoting me even though he had me in his wolf pile? yes, he had *one* post mentioning that, but I know I and everyone else in this thread forgets posts and doesn't constantly cross reference and also will just ask questions to clarify instead of reading the whole thread to find something that's not there, so I find this a very trivial thing to be hung up on, and not something worth scumreading for. Just to show you guys what I'm talking about though, here is turbo II where xiz was wolfing and couldn't do anything to me besides call me a liar and say I wasn't reading his posts:

Originally Posted by Xiz

Holy shit do you just skim my posts? Like if you are then I'll look the other way but holy shit it's like you haven't been reading my posts at all.

I'm going to say this for the 5th time now. Ethan, are you listening?

It's because of how confident charu thought zenith was town


Like please be honest with me ethan if you have been skimming my posts because you can't be this stupid

Originally Posted by Xiz

you are literally leaving out the main point of my argument, and twisting it to your advantage. Stop.

Originally Posted by Xiz

It was serious



Already responded to this. There were something like 3 or 4 cop claims some stronger then others or something during that time. If I was a wolf, like I said before, I would have gone hard in and used it to my advantage later proving how town I am by rescinding the next day or something.



Read the posts around this, specifically after this post. I don't feel like quoting. It's around 2 pages of this post. I stated IF arnt flips town, then I will look at funny due to how many town I had during that time.



I can't remember, I think I was looking at pairings, between you and funny but I don't think I got a lot out of it.




You missed the post where I said "thats all I want to say about that" to charu
I stopped talking about my thoughts on that situations for hoping the wolves would miss the cop.




Fuck. You. Ethan.

I posted that BEFORE you did. This post made you so fucking wolfy to me now holy shit. Stop trying to twist my wording, AGAIN.



Twisting my words again



Fair point. I disagree.



??? Th




Charu wasn't considering other options more. He was considering, but not the point of where he was willing to lynch outside.



Early gut read, like you said in the very first post. I didn't unvote because I saw the perspectives of (i think) cold kitten and I hated arnt's day 1. I was supportive. There are posts where I say I want to swap to zenith. But remember:

You hammered before I could swap

Don't use that shit logic with me

Originally Posted by Xiz

I'm looking at

AA/Ymia
AA/Charu now


Ethan unless you literally do a massive post explaining charu and funnygurl also, showing how THEY could be wolves, I think you will be my lynch for today.

[AragakiAyase]

I understand that town xiz is confident in his scumreads

but I'm also 99% sure that town xiz doesn't lock in an early read like this and refuse to ever say why I'm a wolf, except for calling me a liar with fake pushes (oh and he also doesn't point out any examples of that)

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

thesunfan

way too much trepidation and too much of "i think X but i could be wrong" -- tone like this signals he is trying to control as much damage as possible on day 1, worried about being wrong this early is weird because he supposedly doesn't know anything so why does he have to preface everything he does with that uncertainty? clearly is thinking more about how things will shake out later

this is par for the course and I don't actually know how much experience you have with sunfan but if you have even a few games you'd know this

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by Xiz

stop pushing false narratives to make you seem like you are tryharding.

Also melon shame on you for believing him.

Originally Posted by thesunfan

shit, thought you were gone

why do you care about mindmelding with me
why do you think you forgot about jrodd
do you think that raeko is too active to be a wolf
what do you think about the reads on her activity

also what are you shooting tomorrow

??? you have nothing to ask about his magical scumread on me that has absolutely no substance? do you think I'm, in Xiz's words:

Originally Posted by Xiz

You are a dirty fucking liar

I will probably not rest until you are dead.

Originally Posted by Xiz

stop pushing false narratives to make you seem like you are tryharding.

Also melon shame on you for believing him.

Originally Posted by Xiz

I'm getting triggered because AA continually fails to read my posts, fails to be open to opinions and pushes fake agendas.

aa

That's good enough for me for D1, I most likely wont be swapping.

[AragakiAyase]

really don't like xiz's sudden reversal on sunfan being a wolf, he claims he mindmelds on V's point in addition to what's here

Originally Posted by Xiz

In other news, sunfan is no longer town to me, hes null. Mostly from lack of mindmeld and I dislike his evolution of reads. I probably will want him dead but I rather not have him dead today.

I don't see the case on Xel, I like him still

Null still on haku
Null still on indheart, leaning town slightly for literally no reason besides it seems genuine

which would seem to push sunfan to null, but ALL OF A SUDDEN

Originally Posted by Xiz

I dont really anymore, it's more that I miss it
he's not on my radar. I think I initially had a read on him but forgot it.
No, I dont see raeko activity = wolf
reads of her activity? I don't understand. Her reads are weak, but they are passable?

Also sunfan moved from null not wanting to lynch to wolf status.

I would never be that obvious about if I was a vigi sunfan, town sunfan would know that. I'm now fine with him dying.

this post is what puts sunfan in the wolf pile? really? this is such a very sunfan post and I'm sure you know that xiz

[AragakiAyase]

oops not clear because no nested quotes, click on that quote to see what I'm talking about

it's this post though

Originally Posted by thesunfan

shit, thought you were gone

why do you care about mindmelding with me
why do you think you forgot about jrodd
do you think that raeko is too active to be a wolf
what do you think about the reads on her activity

also what are you shooting tomorrow

[AragakiAyase]

ok I like V a lot more now, in addition to him actually posting I like how he's switched focus to xiz. when I saw the suspicions of sunfan out of nowhere (V, then xiz in that order) I was thinking of a potential V/xiz partnership to kill someone who I think is fairly towny this game, but I think V's suspicion of xiz for "mindmelding" with him is what I'd expect from a town who lacks additional information and is therefore constantly questioning

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

because i haven't been thinking about my vote since i placed it and have been more focused on articulating my thoughts and reading, but obviously xiz

oh even better