The Etterna Project - Page 6

MinaciousGrace · 09-30-2016, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jousway

ATTN MINA

I rewrote your noteskin to make it 1 file, if you find any bugs with like I did the port wrong or you want to change anything please tell me and I'll do it for ya

http://jousway.co.uk/Unlimited_Stepm...yZeroJedit.rar

oh shit thanks i was going to do this but never got around to it

@youngjii dinglesberry pretty much nailed it

basically the game spends much less time figuring out what to render and a lot more time actually rendering it, the result is higher fps and smoother gameplay however if you leave the fps uncapped it'll basically tax your gpu to the maximum, particularly at the menu screen where nothing is going on and you might hit 5000+ fps

i'll see about having the non-gameplay framerate capped by default

youngjii · 09-30-2016, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinglesberry

Check up in the thread, to me it sounds like you have SM set to uncapped FPS in the menu, so its getting real high and making your gfx card overwork (I'd feel thats why it makes the high pitch noise). (that also explains why it only happens with the mod and not default 5.0.12)

I believe theres a setting in the theme.ini to cap FPS in menu, Mina recommended 300 i think

EDIT: np mr one post, see ya later fam.. maybe someday u will post again, i hope it fixed it, god bless <3

I see, that makes sense. Set it to 300 and the noise went away, thanks.

Full Tablet · 10-19-2016, 11:34 PM

For the Waifu system, I proposed using a Normal Distribution to fit the distribution of hit timings, and use the fit to give a value that represents the overall performance in a play. This post will explain that system with more detail.

In each chart there are both objects that have timings (regular arrows), and objects that have no timing window (hold notes, mines, etc...). Notes that have no timing windows remain unchanged in this proposed system (except for changing their point values, like the current Waifu system does with respect to the old DP system).

The total points obtained from objects that have a timing window is:
Number_of_Timed_Objects * Representative_Points

"Representative Points" is a value that represents the overall accuracy of the notes hit on the play. It's max value is 2 (hitting everything perfectly), and goes down to -8 (missing everything).

Calculating the Representative Points
1) Take the error in milliseconds of each note that was hit.

Take the sum of the squares of those errors (that value will be referred as "s"), and the count of the hits and releases that weren't misses (referred as "k").

2) Count the amount of misses notes (referred as "m").

3) With that information, calculate the Normal Distribution with zero mean that fits the data the best, obtaining the standard error Sigma (details of the calculation below).

4) Use sigma to calculate the "Representative Points"

Erf is the Error Function (while Erfc, appearing below, is the complementary Error Function). Each variable is the upper limit of the timing windows of a certain Judge setting (for example, the BOO timing window is 150ms in Judge 5). The value is equal to the average amount of DP points obtained per object with the Normal Distribution we found.

Note that this formula just defines a scale for what we are trying to measure, and the only way it affects balance is how Objects that have timing windows are weighted against objects with not timing windows (the function was chosen so the balance between both kind of objects remain the same as in the previous system). For making scores directly comparable between different Judge settings, it's better to use constant values for the timing window values (for example, the ones belonging to Judge 5), regardless of the setting the user set.

Using the parameters of Judge 5, the scale looks like:

Typical AAAA scores have a sigma of about 7ms (7ms has a value of 1.999999915 RP).
Typical AAA scores have a sigma of about 12ms (12ms ->1.998221949 RP)
Typical AA scores usually are about 25ms or less (25ms -> 1.863658612 RP)

Calculating the Standard Error "Sigma"
The variables are:
s = Sum of the squares of the timing errors of hits that weren't a Miss.
k = Count of hits/releases that weren't a Miss.
m = Count of Misses.
T = Upper limit of the timing window for a BOO, in ms. This timing window represents the limit of the error for a note to be considered "hit", any note hit outside this window, or not hit at all, is considered as "being hit anywhere outside the window" for the Maximum Likelihood Estimation.

Case without Misses or Hits
This is undefined, default to 0 Representative Points or something.

Case with only Misses
In this case, Sigma approaches infinity, the Representative Points are -8.

Case with only Hits
Sigma is simply

Case with Misses and Hits
Sigma is the positive number that solves the equation:

The equation doesn't have a simple closed form solution, but it can be easily solved numerically with Newton's Method (since the function to find a root for is convex and monotonic).
A first approximation of Sigma (that always is smaller than the real solution) is:

With BS = T/Sigma.
Function to find the root for:

It's derivative:

Note: Because of numerical errors while using double floating-point numbers to calculate the functions, for high values of BS, it's more accurate to use a series expansion near Sigma=0, instead of attempting to calculate their values with the exact formulas.
If BS > 7, then:

If BS >20, then:

The, starting with the initial approximation for sigma, iterate with Newton's Method until F[Sigma] is small:
Sigma[n+1] = Sigma[n] - F[Sigma[n]] / F'[Sigma[n]]

Testing this algorithm, it takes about 0.8ms in average to find an accurate value for Sigma (with an absolute error of 10^(-7)).

MinaciousGrace · 10-20-2016, 12:36 AM

eyy yeah i haven't forgotten about your proposal, i meant to setup different curve approaches earlier on before getting sidetracked with the work on the custom build and compare them side by side

the good news is now that i'm requiring the custom build for my theme anyway i can just build the ms scoring system into the base game, the bad news is i have to build the ms scoring system into the base game

after the trial run with the current system i'll say i'm not particularly thrilled with the result and i think a better solution can be found (i originally wanted to model off normal distributions and both you and another person have suggested methods based on it) so building them into the game and running them side by side is the next step to be taken

but im not gonna lie its prolly gonna be another month before i get any tangible work done there

choof · 11-15-2016, 03:45 PM

it's been a month
wher game

choof · 11-15-2016, 04:12 PM

I might go full autism tomorrow and look into your code and fix it so it calculates things for 6k. before waifu, sitting on a 6k chart would show full data for it. now, i can't see notecounts and graphics don't load at all. this has been an issue for a while but I don't think I ever brought it up because I think that I'm the only person that plays 4k at a level high enough to warrant the use of wife scoring and j5 play, AND plays 6k at a level high enough to warrant the use of wife scoring and j5 play. I know what to expect out of nearly every 6k chart, given that I've probably played the majority of them. not seeing notecounts is a non-issue to me. but it could be an issue to those that use your fixes/builds and would like to try playing 6k here and there.
unless looking into your code to fix things for 6k is an effort in futility; if so, pls let me know so I can spend my day off drinking a lot of coffee and posting a 4k score thread before I crash.

MinaciousGrace · 11-15-2016, 04:30 PM

if you can compile the game you can get the updates now
xwidget is on vacation or some shit so there wont be another full release for at least a few days minimum
or
technically the current release has the capability to already do what you want
but the theme is still coded to pull values from the old lua chartkey system not from the game
so you could just make minor edits to the theme

MinaciousGrace · 11-21-2016, 11:03 AM

the value displayed on music select is generated and saved along with the cache file written to the disk however the score specific rating at evaluation is recalculated specific to the score percentage you attained and for whatever specific set of notes you played (in case cache isn't updated or you use file altering mods like no jumps etc)

the latter is what is used to aggregate into your player score

MinaciousGrace · 12-4-2016, 07:57 AM

check op doofi

**Coolboyrulez0** · 12-4-2016, 08:18 AM

the future is now

Gruzzly_Bear · 12-4-2016, 08:23 AM

make stepmania great again

thanks mina and xwidghet you saved stepmania and added a whole bunch of cool shit in the process <3

**rCaliberGX** · 12-4-2016, 08:26 AM

Them's fightin' words

mwes · 12-4-2016, 08:33 AM

HYPE

p.s. Mina how do i migrate my profile into the new build

MinaciousGrace · 12-4-2016, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rCaliberGX

Them's fightin' words

fuck i know i hate that i've started unwittingly using that term interchangeably with file and chart

to move your profile go to your current save/localprofiles and figure out which folder belongs to your profile, then copy it into the counterpart localprofiles folder in the new installation

you can probably overwrite the default profile safely but you might want to delete it first anyway

alternatively you can use the profile merge function in the options -> profile to merge another profile into the default one and then rename it

actually the easiest method is just to delete the save folder and copy and paste the one from your old installation into the new one

James May · 12-4-2016, 09:40 AM

Just going to point out that people may have to install "Visual C++ redistributable for 2015" for people using Windows 10 since it is going to (at least for me) point out that you're missing a .dll file needed to run the sm build.

PolygonEater · 12-4-2016, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James May

Just going to point out that people may have to install "Visual C++ redistributable for 2015" for people using Windows 10 since it is going to (at least for me) point out that you're missing a .dll file needed to run the sm build.

I made the installer install the redistributable/direct X if either are missing/too old, so I guess there's some way my check fails on some systems since it worked every time on my machine. :\

choof · 12-4-2016, 01:58 PM

I'll work on an orbular-style noteskin that based off of dividebyzero

James May · 12-4-2016, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolygonEater

I made the installer install the redistributable/direct X if either are missing/too old, so I guess there's some way my check fails on some systems since it worked every time on my machine. :\

What I had to do to fix it was install both the x64.exe & the x86.exe installer in order for the .dll file to even show up on my computer. Not sure why but it was a recent issue from when I looked at the Microsoft help page.

Edit: From here https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...8-8734a440d516

Quote:

Go to Microsoft website and download the Visual C++ Redistributable for Visual Studio 2015 from https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/down....aspx?id=48145. You are going to want to select both ‘vc_redist.x64.exe’ and ‘vc_redist.x86.exe’ files to download. Once the files are downloaded, restart the computer as prompted.

(Of course, I didn't have to restart my computer but it's been a common issue with other programs that needed that .dll)

choof · 12-4-2016, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James May

What I had to do to fix it was install both the x64.exe & the x86.exe installer in order for the .dll file to even show up on my computer. Not sure why but it was a recent issue from when I looked at the Microsoft help page.

Edit: From here https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...8-8734a440d516

(Of course, I didn't have to restart my computer but it's been a common issue with other programs that needed that .dll)

you technically only need the x86 installer because this is still a 32-bit program
you shouldn't need a restart but anything you install something like this, it's recommended

Celirra · 12-4-2016, 05:16 PM

Man the theme and build are great and such
but for some reason
the timing window feels different
like for the receptors
or maybe the default offset or something
and that upsets me
because I'm already rubbish
and it's making me more rubbish
which is a bad feeling.

Also domestic abuse by wife tbh but thats normal.

10-19-2016, 11:34 PM	#103
Full Tablet FFR Player Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 2	Re: hello allow me to introduce to u my Wife For the Waifu system, I proposed using a Normal Distribution to fit the distribution of hit timings, and use the fit to give a value that represents the overall performance in a play. This post will explain that system with more detail. In each chart there are both objects that have timings (regular arrows), and objects that have no timing window (hold notes, mines, etc...). Notes that have no timing windows remain unchanged in this proposed system (except for changing their point values, like the current Waifu system does with respect to the old DP system). The total points obtained from objects that have a timing window is: Number_of_Timed_Objects * Representative_Points "Representative Points" is a value that represents the overall accuracy of the notes hit on the play. It's max value is 2 (hitting everything perfectly), and goes down to -8 (missing everything). Calculating the Representative Points 1) Take the error in milliseconds of each note that was hit. Take the sum of the squares of those errors (that value will be referred as "s"), and the count of the hits and releases that weren't misses (referred as "k"). 2) Count the amount of misses notes (referred as "m"). 3) With that information, calculate the Normal Distribution with zero mean that fits the data the best, obtaining the standard error Sigma (details of the calculation below). 4) Use sigma to calculate the "Representative Points" Erf is the Error Function (while Erfc, appearing below, is the complementary Error Function). Each variable is the upper limit of the timing windows of a certain Judge setting (for example, the BOO timing window is 150ms in Judge 5). The value is equal to the average amount of DP points obtained per object with the Normal Distribution we found. Note that this formula just defines a scale for what we are trying to measure, and the only way it affects balance is how Objects that have timing windows are weighted against objects with not timing windows (the function was chosen so the balance between both kind of objects remain the same as in the previous system). For making scores directly comparable between different Judge settings, it's better to use constant values for the timing window values (for example, the ones belonging to Judge 5), regardless of the setting the user set. Using the parameters of Judge 5, the scale looks like: Typical AAAA scores have a sigma of about 7ms (7ms has a value of 1.999999915 RP). Typical AAA scores have a sigma of about 12ms (12ms ->1.998221949 RP) Typical AA scores usually are about 25ms or less (25ms -> 1.863658612 RP) Calculating the Standard Error "Sigma" The variables are: s = Sum of the squares of the timing errors of hits that weren't a Miss. k = Count of hits/releases that weren't a Miss. m = Count of Misses. T = Upper limit of the timing window for a BOO, in ms. This timing window represents the limit of the error for a note to be considered "hit", any note hit outside this window, or not hit at all, is considered as "being hit anywhere outside the window" for the Maximum Likelihood Estimation. Case without Misses or Hits This is undefined, default to 0 Representative Points or something. Case with only Misses In this case, Sigma approaches infinity, the Representative Points are -8. Case with only Hits Sigma is simply Case with Misses and Hits Sigma is the positive number that solves the equation: The equation doesn't have a simple closed form solution, but it can be easily solved numerically with Newton's Method (since the function to find a root for is convex and monotonic). A first approximation of Sigma (that always is smaller than the real solution) is: With BS = T/Sigma. Function to find the root for: It's derivative: Note: Because of numerical errors while using double floating-point numbers to calculate the functions, for high values of BS, it's more accurate to use a series expansion near Sigma=0, instead of attempting to calculate their values with the exact formulas. If BS > 7, then: If BS >20, then: The, starting with the initial approximation for sigma, iterate with Newton's Method until F[Sigma] is small: Sigma[n+1] = Sigma[n] - F[Sigma[n]] / F'[Sigma[n]] Testing this algorithm, it takes about 0.8ms in average to find an accurate value for Sigma (with an absolute error of 10^(-7)). Last edited by Full Tablet; 10-19-2016 at 11:50 PM..

10-20-2016, 12:36 AM	#104
MinaciousGrace FFR Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: nima Posts: 4,278	Re: hello allow me to introduce to u my Wife eyy yeah i haven't forgotten about your proposal, i meant to setup different curve approaches earlier on before getting sidetracked with the work on the custom build and compare them side by side the good news is now that i'm requiring the custom build for my theme anyway i can just build the ms scoring system into the base game, the bad news is i have to build the ms scoring system into the base game after the trial run with the current system i'll say i'm not particularly thrilled with the result and i think a better solution can be found (i originally wanted to model off normal distributions and both you and another person have suggested methods based on it) so building them into the game and running them side by side is the next step to be taken but im not gonna lie its prolly gonna be another month before i get any tangible work done there

11-15-2016, 03:45 PM	#105
choof Banned Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 8,563	Re: hello allow me to introduce to u my Wife it's been a month wher game

11-15-2016, 04:12 PM	#106
choof Banned Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 8,563	Re: hello allow me to introduce to u my Wife I might go full autism tomorrow and look into your code and fix it so it calculates things for 6k. before waifu, sitting on a 6k chart would show full data for it. now, i can't see notecounts and graphics don't load at all. this has been an issue for a while but I don't think I ever brought it up because I think that I'm the only person that plays 4k at a level high enough to warrant the use of wife scoring and j5 play, AND plays 6k at a level high enough to warrant the use of wife scoring and j5 play. I know what to expect out of nearly every 6k chart, given that I've probably played the majority of them. not seeing notecounts is a non-issue to me. but it could be an issue to those that use your fixes/builds and would like to try playing 6k here and there. unless looking into your code to fix things for 6k is an effort in futility; if so, pls let me know so I can spend my day off drinking a lot of coffee and posting a 4k score thread before I crash.

11-15-2016, 04:30 PM	#107
MinaciousGrace FFR Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: nima Posts: 4,278	Re: hello allow me to introduce to u my Wife if you can compile the game you can get the updates now xwidget is on vacation or some shit so there wont be another full release for at least a few days minimum or technically the current release has the capability to already do what you want but the theme is still coded to pull values from the old lua chartkey system not from the game so you could just make minor edits to the theme

11-21-2016, 11:03 AM	#108
MinaciousGrace FFR Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: nima Posts: 4,278	Re: hello allow me to introduce to u my Wife the value displayed on music select is generated and saved along with the cache file written to the disk however the score specific rating at evaluation is recalculated specific to the score percentage you attained and for whatever specific set of notes you played (in case cache isn't updated or you use file altering mods like no jumps etc) the latter is what is used to aggregate into your player score

12-4-2016, 07:57 AM	#109
MinaciousGrace FFR Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: nima Posts: 4,278	Re: The Etterna Project check op doofi

12-4-2016, 08:18 AM	#110
Coolboyrulez0 VICES Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Germany Age: 32 Posts: 10,042	Re: The Etterna Project the future is now

12-4-2016, 08:33 AM	#113
mwes FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: From the holy sea of golden flame Posts: 58	Re: The Etterna Project HYPE p.s. Mina how do i migrate my profile into the new build

12-4-2016, 09:40 AM	#115
James May FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2012 Age: 32 Posts: 3,817	Re: The Etterna Project Just going to point out that people may have to install "Visual C++ redistributable for 2015" for people using Windows 10 since it is going to (at least for me) point out that you're missing a .dll file needed to run the sm build. __________________ bananas

12-4-2016, 01:58 PM	#117
choof Banned Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 8,563	Re: The Etterna Project I'll work on an orbular-style noteskin that based off of dividebyzero

12-4-2016, 05:16 PM	#120
Celirra FFR Player Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: London, Ontario Age: 28 Posts: 749	Re: The Etterna Project Man the theme and build are great and such but for some reason the timing window feels different like for the receptors or maybe the default offset or something and that upsets me because I'm already rubbish and it's making me more rubbish which is a bad feeling. Also domestic abuse by wife tbh but thats normal. __________________ ,, 　,＿, -ｰ'"{ 　゛ヌﾉﾉﾉﾉﾊヾ　ﾉ li.ﾟヮﾟﾉi 彡と} 猫.{つ Last edited by Celirra; 12-4-2016 at 05:32 PM..

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