ultimate stepmania vs korea drama thread

[leonid]

I exchanged some PMs with Jhlee and he thinks Staiain is behind everything (e.g. ordered Mina to sup his SoS score and such, sent viewers to Jhlee's streams to say Staiain is better etc). Theres some misunderstanding apparently so perhaps people involved in this should explain?

[ggsnipes]

The SoS score was mina trying judge 5 then changing back to judge 4 to my knowledge, I'm honestly sure Staiain said nothing about doing shit on his stream, he even tried to ignore everything.

[Staiain]

I actually almost stopped playing 4K games the last weeks to try to get out of this drama shit then I get shittalked and called out and accused of everything drama related, i don't know if you're reading what people in here writes jhlee but you need to fucking stop targeting me and wrongly accuse me for everything other 4k players say. if you want to beat my scores go right ahead I don't care about that. what I do care about is your nasty attitude and shittalking behind my back and trying to spread false rumors about me as a person to other people.

I wanted to get away from this drama then i see a bunch of reddit threads where you make fun out of me and my friends and even about my personal difficulties, you can't go anly lower than this, you should be ashamed of yourself.


You make fun of my unemployment which is actually caused by serious personal issues with depression and anxiety as well as a couple other factors that adds up to make it worse, but I can't say I am jealous of your life where the only "friends" are your 12 year old fanboys, when you stop playing someay noone will care about you, they will forget you existed, unlike me who literally have hundreds and hundreds of friends who i can travel around the world to visit and spend fun time together with anytime I want. I am actually doing something with my life.

Never talk to me or about me again, I am done with your arrogant and self-centered attitude.

[Charu]

Oh...

[Mahou]

Originally Posted by Jagakon

Idek who this jhlee person is in all honesty, this whole thing is just fucking ace. Mina vs jhlee livestream showdown when?

Honestly, doing this would probably just make matters worse considering there are a lot of players that aren't even 100% sure what Jhlee is really even capable of doing in SM.

I'm not going to corner anyone and I know I'm not heavily involved with this community much anymore; however, I did take some time to read about this entire thing because I just so happened to start picking up Osumania myself. Personally, I feel like this scenario shouldn't have got this far, and the fan base from both parties are just adding more fire to the situation. If we are going to blame anyone, we should all just blame ourselves (we all fucked up...well not everyone).
Jhlee is a talented rhythm gamer overall from what I've seen - and any great player I feel should be thankful for the time and effort it takes to get to a certain point. What drives him to play games is his personal initiative; however, regardless of what rhythm game a person decides to play, it's no secret that people have to put in a good amount of time and effort to get better at the game. Limitations are only set if a person decides to let it.
After seeing a bunch of insults being thrown back and forth (Jesus, that's some nasty shit being said), I feel like this is where I feel both parties have messed up (SM community and Jhlee's fan boys). If anyone can take a look at the past of what has happened around here in the FFR community, insulting people in the heat of the moment has never really solved anything. For example (and i'm not idolizing anyone) , but I still recall when Brandon was skillboosting and people were giving him a hard time - and from what I remember, he didn't have the best attitude either when he first started getting better. Look where he is now? In my opinion, he's grown up more and matured a lot from that entire incident. I can I totally understand why some SM players would throw out the cheating card and be upset about how he caries himself. I can also understand why Jhlee's competitive mindset makes him want to prove himself to people how talented he is. These attitudes kind of conflict because I feel like most of the top tier players because are pretty humble about their skill level.
@Jhlee
If you don't like these games, why put yourself in a position to play them? If anything, you're just causing more stress for yourself if you don't get the results that you want. You have a fan base - those in which that you inspire and look up to you at the same time. In their eyes, you've already proven yourself. So why go this far?
@SM top tier players....
By the way, I left it vague like this in regards to whom I'm referring to. If it's bs, shouldn't we just let it go? Even when he's done, I don't think many people are going to accept the scores as legitimate (whether it's because he didn't show real proof or if it's because how people personally see the guy).

In regards to his legitimacy, I will say that I have also analyzed the Cyber Induction video and watched some past broadcast that he had up last week. There are definitely some sketchy things I saw and I'm not using these observations to base his legitimacy at all. If he really cares about proving his legitimacy, here are a few things that he may take in consideration why people are skeptical about his scores. If not, let it go.
Observation #1
The Cyber Induction 1.5 score didn't have any hand cam at all and is nothing but a mere recording. Any experienced SM player that would stumble upon this (without knowing who the player is) might automatically assume "that is auto play". No keytaps were involved and there weren't any receptors in that run; considering he's plays Osumania (where he has his receptors present), it's very unusual for a player to rid themselves of the receptors - especially since the timing window (most play J4) is not nearly as strict as it is in Osumania. Maybe he could explain why he took them away for this particular run?
Observation #2
I want to point out something with the hand cam as well. Maybe it has something to do with the data being sent through OBS...but there are times where it looks like the hand cam is going faster than 1x. I'm not saying Mina is right, but the first thing that came in to mind was he was switching out recordings of his hands when he was picking certain songs - almost as if he had a repertoire of what was going to be played before the stream went live. Sometimes the play looks very nonhuman like. I'm not sure if it's a flaw in the technology he's currently using, but I who knows?
Observation #3
Hand technique. I was watching Jhlee play CoS 1.1 and compared it to Mina's hand cam when he was attempting the song. One thing that really strikes my attention is the posture of his wrists. As a matter of fact, his position always remains stagnant for any song that I've seen him play. When you compare this to players like Staiain/Mina/Eze, you can see their wrists changing determining on the rate/bpm/pace of the notes. Personally, I find it physically impossible to nail a js that fast with stagnant wrists. Once again, I could be wrong.

There are more observations that I have made, but these are the first few things that came to mind when kind of started looking at everything. I don't know how much Jhlee cares about getting along with community, and I don't know how much he really cares to prove if he's legitimate. If he's just pumping out scores in a community where a lot of people dislike him, it just really seems like a waste of time. After all, most of us play this game because we find it fun in the end.
In all honesty, since most of the top tier players are old/mature enough, I think everyone should just be able to try to move on from all this. That might be difficult since the fan base from both sides kind of like the drama (like it's fucking ESPN or something), but it's possible. You don't have to like one another and be friends, but we all should be mature enough to just mind each other's space.


@Jhlee, if you really want to prove your legitimacy in SM, you could do a traditional proof proof video (i.e. Leonid's or Brandon's proof video). I'm not going to lay out the format, but it's just something to keep in mind. Welp, that's my rant.

[ga##]

tag

[Elah]

Originally Posted by jhlee0133

stop fighting

haha what????

[Chocille]

Originally Posted by rrtyui

please enjoy game

2char

[icontrolyourworld]

hello jhlee0133, icyworld here. I don't mean this in a rude way, but please try to get along with stepmania's community including staiain and mina. They're not bad people at all and this whole drama thing is way out of hand. Thanks~

[Gundam-Dude]

you know

people in this thread making essay long posts directed towards jhlee should probably realize

the guy's english isn't very good and he can totally misunderstand things you're trying to say. it's not exactly considerate or practical without a translator

[Tyson ultima]

Leonid and or Ca25nada please translate some of the stuff to people so we can end this the drama ain't fun no more.

[Mahou]

Originally Posted by jhlee0133

http://www.twitch.tv/jhlee0133/v/29498397
here's Cyber Induction 1.5x, CoS 1.1x play with handcam

As much as I really want to believe you (please take this with a grain of salt), the handcam isn't going to be good enough for me if you're really trying to prove legitimacy. I would appreciate it if you read the observations that I put out in my earlier post. Please understand why I have questions about these things and that I'm not trying to call you a cheater right off the back.Maybe you could try to make some things more clear off the comments I made in my post? If his English isn't that good, maybe someone who's fluent in Korean can help the guy out?

[TC_Halogen]

This has gotten so goddamn fucking far out of hand it's not even funny anymore. This constant drama probably wouldn't have escalated nearly as badly as it had if it weren't for a ton of uninvolved parties deciding to butt their noses in where it didn't belong. The fact of the matter is that both Staiain and jhlee are coming across as pariahs out of their respective groups because their drama has been put under a magnifying glass by people who have no idea what they're talking about.

At this point, everyone simply needs to shut the fuck up and just end things. Let people play the game the way they are. The side that stops first, and stops in entirety (no further correspondence, no further discussion, no further drama elicitation, nothing) is going to be the group that turns out to be the better one, because it basically isolates the party that continues to bring things up. I'm hardly impartial, and I think some of the things that jhlee has said are complete horseshit because they go out of the context of the game and into personal lives, but some of the things that are being said back to jhlee are not helping. I won't even play innocent myself here, because I've hardly been innocuous (though most of the negative responses came immediately after the blatant personal attacks). However, all of the mania community (and at this point, I'll let mania cover StepMania and osu!mania because there is a reasonable overlap) is now being perceived as a bunch of over-dramatic people. The saddest part about it, is that people are sitting here and saying they want nothing to do with it, but the continued scrutiny basically stuffs the drama back in the faces of those involved and the vicious circle simply continues without end. Some of the people in the StepMania community that are normally the most calm and collected are even at their wits' end anymore, and that's a pretty telling sign that it's gone too far.

jhlee0133 - I see you in this thread: you want to help diffuse things? You've been called out for your performance on certain things and not once have I seen you actually initiate reasonable response in resolving any of your situations. Apparently you've taken the time to talk with leonid - how about you consult him for advice on verifying your legitimacy, because I'm unfortunately on the side of you having illegitimate plays knowing how StepMania's mechanics work. I also thought something was fishy with your Lost Dedicated BMS run, because yeah, there's a lot of frame perfect hits that simply don't make sense for something like that. BS calls don't mean that you're BS, it means that you're under scrutiny. You'd do better for everyone if you actually performed reasonable requests deemed by your implied skill level, rather than rubbing it in everyone's faces that you have an insurmountable skill level without truly proving yourself.

Staiain - as hard as it is, you simply need to let it go. It's painfully obvious that jhlee's following is a bunch of immature people that will likely stand by his side regardless of the outcome of his legitimacy, and that is simply something you're going to have to deal with on a case-by-case scenario. I'm telling you this as a friend, but your harsh responses are doing nothing more than exasperating the situation because you're not only acting defensive, you're also acting borderline arrogant and even doing the same thing that jhlee has been doing: you're attacking him personally. It's not just unacceptable when he does it, it is unacceptable when everyone does it. This is not something that gets resolved by saying "he did it first", because it's not going to ever terminate.

Someone has to be the bigger person, and given the grounds of the situation, it's looking moreso like it's going to have to be you. The good thing is that it pays reasonable dividends: if the drama continues and you can prove that you've not been reciprocating any sort of responses, it'll basically highlight exactly who is antagonizing who.

[Staiain]

can't say it ever was fun for me though but i guess it was fun from the sideline i guess

[Charu]

How are people posting for the first time when they registered last year

wtf

[snoverpk]

yall need some jesus rn

[Mahou]

Originally Posted by Staiain

can't say it ever was fun for me though but i guess it was fun from the sideline i guess

I can assure you Staiain, that it was not fun for me to come back after a hiatus, and seeing you hacked, and people ridiculing you. I might not like every single person that I meet in the world, but I do believe that nobody deserves that treatment. I also believe that Jhlee didn't deserve the attacks as well.

[TC_Halogen]

That still does nothing to explain the StepMania stuff though, and regardless - that's not even the point.

I'd rather you spent the time to do something about you and your followers having an absolutely deplorable attitude that is dragging everyone else into situations that they don't want to be in. What gives you the right to say all of this?

[TC_Halogen]

honestly you know what

i'm just not even involving myself in this anymore, it's pretty stupid. i'm gonna go back to enjoying my rhythm games the way that I want to, and i'm not going to get involved in this crap anymore because it's honestly been ruining my enjoyment of these games for the past month, if not even longer

i think others should take this attitude and just ditch the drama cold now

[Charu]

Play some Undertale while you're at it!