Why aren't rates above 1.0 counting for scores?

[mi40]

overthrow the tyranny!!!!!!!!!

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by bmah

I'm probably in the minority but that's my thoughts.

I'm unsure if you read many of the prior posts, or all of what YoshL discussed with you. I am interested in what you have to say in regards to what I (and others) have posted on the matter from your mentioned points.

It was a decent thing to bring up, but from my standpoint (and from others here) it doesn't really seem to hold up. That is, unless there is more to be said from your end in relation to our posts.

[bmah]

Originally Posted by foxfire667

I'm unsure if you read many of the prior posts, or all of what YoshL discussed with you. I am interested in what you have to say in regards to what I (and others) have posted on the matter from your mentioned points.

It was a decent thing to bring up, but from my standpoint (and from others here) it doesn't really seem to hold up. That is, unless there is more to be said from your end in relation to our posts.

I actually wanted to keep my opinion to myself and I didn't give Yoshl permission to post my thoughts on here. I've talked to him at great lengths already and I do not feel like going through this again. I have certainly read through this chat. *grumbles*

[mi40]

hehe

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by bmah

I actually wanted to keep my opinion to myself and I didn't give Yoshl permission to post my thoughts on here.

Then I apologize, I was unaware of this.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by mi40

i played vertex beta on 1.5/1.6 a couple times and even then the trills can't be cheated as jumps

also for legacy songs, for the files that have split jumps, you need to play them on rates at least 2.0 for the split jumps to become normal jumps - which in turn make the rest of the files insanely hard (jacks)

Addressing this, haha: at 225 BPM, 16ths become two-frame hits 100% of the time (900 tpm / 60 s = 15 tps; 30 frames / 15 = 2 frame separation). With a perfect window that is three-frames wide. At 1.5 rate (20 tps), roughly 50% of the taps will fall within two frames, and the other 50% will be one frame apart. Just a matter of hitting it at the right time.

In response to the whole playability concept - the frustration of not being able to play certain songs on rates doesn't increase playability; if anything, it's going to frustrate players that cannot access what should be an option for game manipulation. There's really nothing that can be done about this -- creating a retroactive unlock of sorts won't do any good for the replayability factor, but forcing people to play lower level songs over and over again is certainly going to piss people off. It's also especially bad when you run into really long songs (I'm going to feel sorry for someone who has to play World Tour or Trinity multiple times to get rates working).

I also agree with Anaru -- if a person enjoys a song or file, they'll likely have given it a full play (or multiple full plays) and will use rates due to familiarity.

[rushyrulz]

I read 1.5 pages of this thread.

Short answer: It ruins the integrity of the game by allowing players to speed through longer files, ruining the music the way the artist intended it and ruining the file the way the stepper intended it. It's only fun to play on rates when you're playing for fun.

[Coolboyrulez0]

I'd prefer 0 also and just let people play like they wish instead of arbitrary limitations, if there absolutely MUST be a standardized playthrough I would be very upset if its more than 1.

[Tim Allen]

Most people speeding through the lower leveled files have already playing them.. probably idk but I've AAA'd every file under level ~60 at least once, most under 30/40 twice and I don't want to play these 40 minute rock songs again come oooooooooooooooon

[TC_Halogen]

Here's my question:

Did this discussion of songs played on rates involve forcing a person to play the song to be able to play on rates or was it so that they could record scores? The discussion currently going on somewhat deviates from the initial question here.

You can resolve both the playability issues and the issues with respecting the artists by allowing people to play songs on rates, but only allowing the song to -record- a score after a full, non-rated run has been done. That way, players aren't forced to play a song fully to play it on rates, but they are required to give a song a full play before being able to record a given result on it.

[TheSaxRunner05]

This wont affect many players anyways, only the active interested vets, who have FP 10+

Besides no one complains about "ruining the authors intent" on SM, people play on rates all the time and those scores are held in a higher regard than the 1.0 scores

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by TheSaxRunner05

This wont affect many players anyways, only the active interested vets, who have FP 10+

Besides no one complains about "ruining the authors intent" on SM, people play on rates all the time and those scores are held in a higher regard than the 1.0 scores

You make a valid point, but the situation is slightly different for FFR -- the separating issue here is that FFR actually acquires permissions to use artist music (as opposed to SM, which does not). Artists occasionally get really excited to see their music in a game like this, but they are musicians who do have an intent with their music, and rate mods might ruin that intent.

Your point about Flash Player 10 is an interesting one... not everyone uses F10 or newer when playing the game -- however, if casual players play the game on the browser (due to not knowing about standalone play), they'll experience all of the benefits that us community goers opt out of using due to performance issues/preferences.

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

It ruins the integrity of the game by allowing players to speed through longer files, ruining the music the way the artist intended it and ruining the file the way the stepper intended it. It's only fun to play on rates when you're playing for fun.

It's the exact same file, except faster.

I don't understand what people can't get about this, either the files get tons more plays from people of all skill levels, or they get tons less because lots of players don't care to touch them. If I was a musician or a step artist on FFR, knowing that people will avoid my step / music because it's easy or long would annoy me, not people playing it slightly faster so they can enjoy it more.

FFR has over 1400 public songs (and almost 200 tokens), and with a player who can AAA semi-high level files, the sheer number of songs way below their skill level is pretty tremendous. You can't seriously tell me that encouraging a player to actually touch hundreds of new songs and step charts is doing anything but helping bring recognition to step artists and musicians. You also can't seriously tell me that bringing rates into the game wouldn't make working on FFR's ridiculously huge (and still growing) public rank list, a much more enjoyable and manageable task for anyone who tossed it aside before. Rates are an incredible thing, and I truly believe that if they are added without any strange prerequisites they could lead to some pretty nice results.

[alloyus]

Really don't see an issue with having to play a song once before you can have rate scores record for it, most of you are being so sillyyy

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by alloyus

Really don't see an issue with having to play a song once before you can have rate scores record for it, most of you are being so sillyyy

Forcing a one time play through completely defeats one of the big things that could come about from adding rates into game, which would be giving players motivation to attack their public ranks (and have fun doing it). Sure, playing a harder file normally isn't a big deal at all, but imagine having to play hundreds and hundreds of files below your skill level one time before rates are allowed on them.

It would take all the incentive to play the easier files to improve ranks and essentially throw it out the window, because nothing changes. If you have to play it once, then they are still bored and annoyed, and they would AAA at the end anyway. People not touching the easier files now would still not touch them if rates were added with this restriction.

[bmah]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

You can resolve both the playability issues and the issues with respecting the artists by allowing people to play songs on rates, but only allowing the song to -record- a score after a full, non-rated run has been done. That way, players aren't forced to play a song fully to play it on rates, but they are required to give a song a full play before being able to record a given result on it.

This is what I was suggesting all along, and I was a little upset that the people I talked to refused any sort of compromise. This is why I'm not bothering to chase after this topic. What you're saying is my one and only suggestion.

[TC_Halogen]

It seems like the only sensible solution to accommodate for both sides -- why is it being so heavily disregarded?

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

It seems like the only sensible solution to accommodate for both sides -- why is it being so heavily disregarded?

My prior two posts pretty much sum up my opposition to such a restriction.

If this restriction were to be added though, I guess it wouldn't affect me in the least so whatever I guess (just thinking about other players and public ranks in general). That is if I assume rates even are going to be added to the game anyway.

[mi40]

i still don't get why a full playthrough is required

any other rhythm game out there that can be played on rates don't require a full playthrough, so why does ffr need a restriction like that?

rates are a sitewide feature and a non-exclusive feature

there shouldn't be anything, even a full playthrough, barring someone's desire to play on rates

[mi40]

it's almost like we're forgetting that, higher rates recording opens up HUNDREDS of SONGS to players who are otherwise ALREADY WELL ABOVE a certain skill level

most players who are past a certain skill level DON'T PLAY / VISIT older songs (ie. Dance 1, Funk, Hip Hop) because it's not fun for them

requiring them to do a full playthrough defeats the whole purpose of higher rates recording, since it goes back to: "oh hey, i need to spend hours and hours before these scores will record for me... i'll just go back to dance 2 and misc"