|
|
#21 |
|
Sukiru#11148
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Xepherverse
Age: 31
Posts: 1,729
|
awesome love the advice
__________________
|
|
|
|
|
#22 |
|
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Join Date: Sep 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 1,818
|
Thanks for the mention, means a lot to me.
![]() I'll check into the freelancing stuff, would be great experience and great for connections. My contribution of tips for to this thread is to take everyone's opinion at heart. Take everyone's opinion in consideration and do something with what people say. Even if they know jack shit about art, if they spot something iffy, that's an indicator something is wrong (unless you can justify this really well). Any constructive criticism is there to help you, not to insult you. Especially for a client or boss this is crucial, since it's their call in the end. And in reply to mythix' post. Don't worry too much about theft of your final works (if it's a personal project that is). Just don't ever post source files of your works because that's your proof it's yours. PS. Shameless promotion for our project which is nearly done. It's called awesomenauts (www.awesomenauts.com) and is gonna be a MOBA (Massive Online Battle Arena) game on xbla and psn. Can't reveal much more just yet but more info will be given at E3. ![]()
__________________
Last edited by Nullifidian; 06-2-2011 at 07:08 PM.. |
|
|
|
|
#23 |
|
Nothing.
|
Are you going to E3? I was going to see if I could get off work next week and attend. Would be pretty badass.
And yes, critiques are a massive part of the job, get used to making revisions, lots of them! By no means does a harsh critique say your work is bad, so you still need to be able to take things lightly and not get discouraged by it.
__________________
|
|
|
|
|
#24 |
|
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Join Date: Sep 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 1,818
|
I'm not going to E3 myself. A couple of the founders are going to talk about the game there.
__________________
|
|
|
|
|
#25 |
|
Nothing.
|
Now lets look at the type of freelancing you need to STAY THE **** AWAY FROM.
This is a perfect example. http://www.freelancer.com/ Lets look at this main page and break it down for a second. For starters, this is the type of freelance site where the designer is the one bidding for the job in which case 95% of the time, the person who bids the lowest amount gets to do the project. This will likely end up earning you somewhere around $3-8 an hour for the work you end up doing. Look at the statistics they put up in the mid-right of the page. 2.5 million users, $91 million in earnings, 1 million projects. So the average amount earned by anyone per project is only $91. Your time and effort is worth more than that. If you were to get hired on at a company as a graphic designer, they can pay you less of an hourly wage, because it is a stable salary. As a freelancer however, you can expect to easily earn at least DOUBLE what any company would normally pay you as a regular employee. Most graphic designers who are employed make around $13-$17 an hour, a freelance graphic designer should make $25-$45 an hour, simply because it is an on-demand, one time job. As a newer person who is looking at this type of site for the first time, you might think "holy crap this actually seems awesome! Look this one is liek $200!". Some of the listings will be reasonable, but those will also be the ones that have the most competition from other fellow artists. Look at one listing from my side of the industry, animation. http://www.freelancer.com/projects/V...n.1082866.html If I didn't know any better, I would just say WOWWWWW $750 for a 45 second animation!!!!!! Luckily I'm no noob. Look at the video references that were given. Those types of animations not only take weeks/months to complete, but are also usually headed by a team of animators, not just one. So let's say you're fast at drawing and animating...like REALLY FAST...and you can get this thing done in under 3 weeks. That's 8 hours a day, for lets say 14 total working days (9-5 m-f), and we're going to assume you get the maximum amount offered (LOL). 14 days, x 8 hours per day = 112 working hours. $750 / 112 = $6.69 an hour. You can go eat a dick because I'm not working for less than minimum wage on something like that. Not to mention, you will not get the maximum, because some kid in China is going to love working for 6 bucks an hour. Now lets look at the type of site you should probably use often http://jobs.freelanceswitch.com/categories/1 This type of site immediately lists the price each company is willing to pay for the project, and is usually going to be a fair amount. These are the companies that know the freelancing industry well, and are willing to compensate you for your hard work. All you have to do with these types of sites is show them your portfolio, if they like what they see, you're hired. Lets break this down a little further. http://jobs.freelanceswitch.com/jobs...esigner-needed This is a great example of what to expect from a company that you want to do a project for. The pay is $250 per infographic. (if you don't know what an infographic is click this http://www.dzinepress.com/2010/03/40...ping-analysts/ ) Now if I were to make an estimate of how much time it would take me to design a graphic like this, I would put it at about 6 hours or so. $250/6 = $41.66 an hour, which is right on par with my earlier statement about how much you should be making. The only drawback to this site in particular is that it does require a $7 a month subscription, but many other sites do not require this at all. The biggest underlying statement I'm trying to make here is that you need to always be paid for your skills. If you're new at the business, and just want some exposure, extra spending money, or practice in the industry (all of which are great) then by all means, a freelance bidding site is perfect, and should be used to its fullest. If you're confident in your photoshop and illustrator skills (if you think you could produce a graphic like those infographics I linked you to, then you are confident) then you should have no problem bypassing this entire bidding system. If you don't think you could design something on that sort of caliber...well...then I guess now you have a great goal to shoot for ![]() I really hope some of this stuff I'm babbling about in this thread gets taken seriously. I love working in this industry, and I know once you take a step into it, you will too ;D
__________________
Last edited by darkshark; 06-3-2011 at 05:30 PM.. |
|
|
|
|
#26 |
|
FFR Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: in your worst nightmere
Posts: 551
|
As topic says 'professional artist' it has been mentioned various times that after one gets __insert art degree here__ credential then .....
Here's the problem, what if I do not have any of such credentials nor the ways to get them anytime in the near future. I am currently going to college for biochem major and will not be able to attend any sort of art school since they REQUIRE you to quit your other school, and I am not willing to do that. Not to mention the tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars I don't have. I am a fairly hard worker in the field of visual art and am about to put in a lot more work into it as it is one of my major passion. From the above post it seem to me that credential is what matters, even in art. Is this true? Am I screwed because I have no way of acquiring such educational degree (art 101 doesn't count I think). Either way though, I will work as hard as I can on it for as long as I can. The only difference this will make is if or not I will starve to death, or rather how much sooner I will starve to death if I don't have a paper saying I am an artist. PS. I know op said degree is NOT needed, but is there a cap on non-degree people. Times are changing pretty quickly, all these sites seem to all have a 'degree' section for artists to present themselves as a graduate of so and so.
__________________
Reminder for self to make new sig. Last edited by Renevatia; 12-22-2011 at 08:42 AM.. |
|
|
|
|
#27 |
|
Zageron E. Tazaterra
Infrastructure & Game
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 6,463
|
A degree means absolutely nothing if you are good enough. No matter what you are doing. The internet has so much more, and usually better, resources than a University or College. If you put massive amounts of time into it, which I'm sure you have, and create a very impressive looking portfolio I am sure you could easily acquire yourself a job in character concept design. Just look for a tiny and insignificant company, work for very little and create a base of 'credentials' for your self. Eventually you'll apply for a bigger company with "I've created character concept art for X different studios, who have created XX characters using my creations. X of these games were extremely successful, and X of them are available on Steam. ______ game won an award at Indie GDC, and etc...."
Really it comes down to if you get noticed or not. To get noticed, you have to start really small. (I'm sure you want a professional opinion, but I can assure you that this is pretty accurate.)
__________________
|
|
|
|
|
#28 |
|
Forum User
|
It all depends on what you have exposure to, if you have the discipline for attention to detail that's been self taught, if you can understand methods and theory for marketing and have evidence to know that said techniques work-- a lot of the attention to detail parts that you wouldn't ordinarily know to look and seek out knowing is taught in school, which for me I found handy; I'm sure you could learn it all by yourself and if you do, sure, you're more than qualified.
And yes, now if you can make something impressive and get exposure, it's something you need in order to be a thriving part of the industry. It's almost a celebrity status among certain companies now, the art teams, so to be a part of a game that particularly stands out graphically, or anything for that matter, it's great to be a part of. I think a degree is sometimes seen as a reassurance that the person with this good looking portfolio has indeed the knowledge to back up his or her designs or concepts.
__________________
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
|
|
|
|
#29 | |
|
Nothing.
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
|
|
|
|
#30 |
|
x'); DROP TABLE FFR;--
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,334
|
"If you like to draw every once in a while and think art is just pretty cool, well, I'm actually going to tell you to pick a different career path because honestly only the ones who are truly dedicated and have that passion make it in this industry anyway"
This applies in just about every industry, and is the strongest advice ever, however obvious it may seem. You'll always do the best and earn the most doing what you love doing. Honestly I think there's no real difference between passion and obsession; you need to be obsessed. If you're half-assing it, you'll get half-assed results. |
|
|
|
|
#31 |
|
Forum User
|
Exactly what the problem is with many people in my program at the moment, they're in there because they figured "Art was apparently my biggest interest in high school maybe on par with something more science related therefore I should choose art because it seems like my best option,,," meanwhile we are into 2nd year 2nd semester now and they are still pumping out the same generic designs they did in 1st year, or before, maybe with a kerned headline this time. Not to be narcissistic about it or anything but as far as I can tell, only me and 3 other people in my class have consistent improvement in our work, that is in and around or above the accepted design standards we have today.
On a side note, my school's a bit different-- we go through a lot of talk in our natural media illustration and the first year class "creative concepts" about how we can flex the creative side we already have, and into some topics of psychology on how we can make ideas connect through the means of visual metaphors. All things I normally do but still, for the people not quite there, it was worthwhile.
__________________
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
|
|
|
|
#32 |
|
`~`
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,299
|
lmao Spenner I'm in the EXACT situation you are.
With all honestly more than 80% of the people in my program don't actually belong here and it baffles me what the **** they're doing here in the first place. Either I have high standards based off my own design skill or the quality of work those people produce are just ridiculously poor and half assed. It's already 2nd year 2nd semester and I -barely- see any improvement from most of the people in my program, aside from the notable people that I can deem actual designers who will actually succeed in the industry. I've even had one-on-one discussions with some of my professors (mainly my typography and layout profs) and they wholeheartedly agree that there is a HUGE gap between the students who will actually become successful designers and those who will graduate and end up working a shitty job completely irrelevant to what they studied. As cocky as this sounds, luckily I fall into the handful of students that the professors can see succeeding in the industry after graduation. I don't **** around with my works and I usually I put my all into everything I do; I'm just that passionate about what I study. The works I'm most proud of are the ones I absolutely know will be well received by professors and peers in addition to getting good grades. I only wish that there were more people in my program that have this sort of mindset and motivation. I'm tired of seeing the same generic, half-assed SHIT being shat out every semester by students. #GDiselitistandmad
__________________
Last edited by Gundam-Dude; 12-23-2011 at 03:19 PM.. |
|
|
|
|
#33 |
|
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Join Date: Sep 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 1,818
|
Today a guy I know asked me for criticism on a song he's working on. Rather than listening to what I had to say he had to justify every point of criticism I made. After he was done ranting I told him I'm merely giving him my opinion, and he has every right to do nothing with it. I also told him he should open up to criticism more and not be so defensive about everything. He then proceeded to say that I am unable to handle criticism as well because I disagreed on ideas he had for some of my drawings in the past. Besides the fact that it's irrelevant to his case wether or not I am able to handle criticism, this ticked me off a bit so I'm going to elaborate my old post a bit on the point of criticism.
Inability to handle criticism is not the same as disagreeing with someone. Everyone will have positive and negative responses to their work and you have every right to disagree with someone's view as there's a lot of subjectivity and differences in taste involved. Not sharing someone's view does not mean you're unable to handle criticism. However, even though you ultimately choose which responses you build further on, it is wise to listen and give some thought to everyone's opinion and their explanations (especially those with more experience) as they all hold some sort of truth and might just be a mind-blowing revelation for you. If you're new to any art form, you can't really form an educated opinion yet so you have nothing to defend. It's wise to follow up on any advice given at that point and try out different angles to tackle a problem. That said, frantically defending yourself or lashing out at the person giving you criticism will make you look like an asshole who is insecure and unable to handle criticism. Keeping calm, giving arguments to your choices and using those arguments to conclude that you do or do not agree with his opinion however gives a much different impression. It all depends on your personal (educated) judgement in the end. You can maintain an open mind to criticism, but If you have an intelligent, educated and thought out argument for a decision, you're allowed to disagree. Just make sure it's convincing enough. (unless it's your boss or a client demanding you to do it or you're ****ed lolol)
__________________
Last edited by Nullifidian; 08-10-2012 at 09:43 PM.. |
|
|
|
|
#34 | |
|
ごめんなさい (/ω\)
Join Date: Aug 2012
Age: 25
Posts: 2,291
|
Quote:
Only through mistakes are we able to learn, and when we can't learn from our mistakes we are unable to move forward and improve. I try to take criticism seriously as a method of improving all the time and it HAS helped in the past and it most certainly will in the future. Don't forget you have your inner critic always criticizing you too, whether you decide to listen to it is up to you. I try to. P.S. I completely forgot this thread existed. All the stuff in here is very helpful. |
|
|
|
![]() |
| Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|