Dear Stepfile Artists,

[Shaydow]

and to site admins / submission judges. First let me say thank you, I appreciate new songs, and have always appreciated FFR. I was a subscriber long ago, and let my sub run over 5 or 6 months AFTER the site went down, hoping the extra income would help the site get back up faster. That said, I've got to rant...

What is the deal with new songs ( in this regard I am referring to anything 9+ ) and the difficulty of them? I'm sorry, I have always been a " casual " FFR player, it's my HOBBY and I like it, yet I accept that no matter how much I play, there is a limit to my skill level and I will NEVER be as good as, ummmm, " You Guys ". I'm FINE with this, HOWEVER, I am NOT fine with songs being VASTLY different in each category. I mean, I just came back to play all the new songs in over a month since I last looked up new songs ( I will be honest, most days I play I don't even open the site, I just launch the standalone and set random #-# based on how I feel / how long it has been since I last played ) and I was blown away, and NOT in a good way! It seems as though you step artists are trying to cater more to the " Hard cores and the cans " then to the " casuals and can not ".

Example? Let's look at Southern Cross. When I started it was an 11 ( FMO ). Now I UNDERSTAND why it was changed to a 10, I am not arguing that. Why I choose this as my example however was this once WAS an 11, and is STILL a 10, yet I played 2 new 9's today that made it look like you should make southern cross an easy 9 or even an 8! You guys are adding triples to EVERYTHING, trill and jump patterns that should NOT be 9's but 11, etc. Today playing many of the new 11's I got so PISSED, I don't even feel like I'm playing the songs anymore. So many times I felt you just added steps for ANYTHING YOU COULD. Playing drums one minute and have to do filler for background piano or vocals during the maybe 1/16 of a second the drums stop? COME ON. Your adding so much and trying so hard the songs just become a spam fest and don't even FEEL like the song, at least to me!

So what am I getting at? I want to FEEL like I'm playing the song! Do I have problems with new songs? NO. Do I have problems with new HARD songs? NO! What I DO have a problem with is the song trying TO HARD, and then " just because it has or does not have x patterns, it will be Y difficulty ". Just because it doesn't have those same patterns, doesn't mean it belongs in the same category! Stop over doing EVERYTHING, and for the love of Pete Judges, stop adding these over-layered songs to EVERY CATEGORY. When I'm playing a 9, it should FEEL like a 9, hell maybe even a LOW 10, not an 11! When I'm playing a 10 or 11, I want it to feel like a 10 or 11, not a spam filled mess that should be a 12!

In closing, I want to restate that I DO IN FACT appreciate everyone's hard work, I DO like new songs, and I appreciate that time and effort all of you step artists put into your songs. Make no mistake about this. I just feel MANY of the newer songs are over done to compensate for there now being less casuals, and many are in the wrong difficulty category, regardless of what patterns it does or does not have.

Thank you for your time.

Peace,
Shay

[rushyrulz]

I've never agreed more with anything I've ever seen, heard, or read in my entire life.

[justin_ator]

I'm upper tier compared to a lot of the casual FFR'ers such as yourself, and I entirely agree. I feel that because we are trying to limit it to 13 difficulties, too many of the lower difficulties are becoming increasingly hard. Hell, there are new eights out there that took me multiple tries to AAA, and a handful of VC's I had to try more than once on to FC, and that is saying a lot because there isn't much I haven't FC'd. The difficulty of new songs is making each difficulty level more and more vast, and the system is becoming extremely generic. Very well put, Shaydow.

[psychoangel691]

Now I've said for a while that we need a better difficulty system but it seems to me that the bigger gripe is about how stepcharts are evolving in general. [Correct me if I'm wrong] Things are always going to change eventually, if we kept putting in more of the same what fun would that be? And think about it, 4 keys doesn't give you much room to go places with, you're saying how things feel like spam and not the song but what is being represented is multiple instruments in the song which are layered together. If everything were stepped straightforward we'd have a bunch of low level charts that were pretty much all the same and it would be boring.

I might be misunderstanding your rant and please excuse me if I did. But look at how charts have evolved from when the site 1st started. CIA rave used to be an FMO lol.

[ninjaKIWI]

I disagree with pretty much everything you said. The difficulties are staying moderately the same, a 10 a few years ago is about the same difficulty as a 10 now. They have gotten slightly more difficult, as avmisses have been removed, which is completely reasonable.

Example? Let's look at Southern Cross. When I started it was an 11 ( FMO ). Now I UNDERSTAND why it was changed to a 10, I am not arguing that. Why I choose this as my example however was this once WAS an 11, and is STILL a 10, yet I played 2 new 9's today that made it look like you should make southern cross an easy 9 or even an 8! You guys are adding triples to EVERYTHING, trill and jump patterns that should NOT be 9's but 11, etc. Today playing many of the new 11's I got so PISSED, I don't even feel like I'm playing the songs anymore. So many times I felt you just added steps for ANYTHING YOU COULD. Playing drums one minute and have to do filler for background piano or vocals during the maybe 1/16 of a second the drums stop? COME ON. Your adding so much and trying so hard the songs just become a spam fest and don't even FEEL like the song, at least to me!

I haven't run into any problems with over-layering in recent files. Give me specific examples.

I also disagree with changing Southern Cross to a 10, there were no framers. When avmisses were removed, the file didn't get any easier. No reason to lower it in difficulty.

When I'm playing a 9, it should FEEL like a 9, hell maybe even a LOW 10, not an 11! When I'm playing a 10 or 11, I want it to feel like a 10 or 11, not a spam filled mess that should be a 12!

Difficulties are quite subjective. That said, I disagree with the notion that there are 11's that are denoted as 9's. The line does get blurred a bit, but only slightly between the very edges of difficulties. You're going to get some high 10's that feel like low 11's, and some low 11's that feel like high 10's. All due to subjectivity in difficulty.

It looks like you're having a problem with the way simfile artists are stepping files, and that isn't exactly something that can be argued very soundly. Simfiles are going to evolve and change over the years, so obviously the 10 of today and the 10 of two years ago aren't going to flow exactly the same. That doesn't mean the difficulty is any different.

[Poptronix]

Welcome to the new step era.

Also, hands are really normal, I don't think it's hard to press 3 keys at once.

Just turn yourself into a hardcore then you'll get somewhere. Casual gaming at this game will hardly get you any skill boosts.

[krunkykai22]

Dude, you are my new best friend, I completely agree 100%.

[ichliebekase]

Originally Posted by Poptronix

Also, hands are really normal, I don't think it's hard to press 3 keys at once.

Some keyboards don't allow you to press 3 keys on the arrow pad at once. I know my old keyboard a few years ago was like that, and for the index/one handed players, that obviously isn't fair for them to have to switch to spread or the letter keys when they don't want to.

But yes, I definitely agree with the OP. There does need to be a bit of a fix in the system, but I sort of doubt it will ever happen :l

[hi19hi19]

If you aren't enjoying the new files, don't play them.

Apparently this is a GAME that people play CASUALLY and just for FUN but not SERIOUS but yet they still HAVE to ENJOY every single LEVEL as if it was CUSTOM made FOR them?
ALTERNATING caps


EDIT- lest I sound too much like an ass, there is some good feedback hidden in that block of text. Be more specific with what "trills and jump patterns" you don't like, and I know many simfile artists will pay close attention. Me included. Constructive, specific, and concise feedback is appreciated more than you might think. TLDR rants that say nothing are ignored more than you might think.

[00Razor00]

You really can't get mad at simfile artists for stepping what's in the music.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

If you aren't enjoying the new files, don't play them.

Apparently this is a GAME that people play CASUALLY and just for FUN but not SERIOUS but yet they still HAVE to ENJOY every single LEVEL as if it was CUSTOM made FOR them?
ALTERNATING caps

This was actually another point I was going to bring up. As a casual player not going for scores it shouldn't bug you quite as much as those going for scores. I mean think about it this way there's over 1000 songs in game no one is going to like every single level in the game.

[Poptronix]

Originally Posted by ichliebekase

Some keyboards don't allow you to press 3 keys on the arrow pad at once. I know my old keyboard a few years ago was like that, and for the index/one handed players, that obviously isn't fair for them to have to switch to spread or the letter keys when they don't want to.

But yes, I definitely agree with the OP. There does need to be a bit of a fix in the system, but I sort of doubt it will ever happen :l

I didn't mean the inability to press 3 keys.

The OP said he just didn't like hands in general because of its difficulty.

I don't give 3 shits if other players can't hit more than 2 keys, that's really their own fault. I have like 10 keyboards in my house and they're really cheap to get. Keyboards nowadays can support up to 6 keys so something's gotta be wrong with their old-ass keyboard if they can't support anti-ghosting for 3 keys or more.


Besides, most of the active FFR community use letters instead of arrow keys.

[Shaydow]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

Now I've said for a while that we need a better difficulty system but it seems to me that the bigger gripe is about how stepcharts are evolving in general. [Correct me if I'm wrong] Things are always going to change eventually, if we kept putting in more of the same what fun would that be? And think about it, 4 keys doesn't give you much room to go places with, you're saying how things feel like spam and not the song but what is being represented is multiple instruments in the song which are layered together. If everything were stepped straightforward we'd have a bunch of low level charts that were pretty much all the same and it would be boring.

I might be misunderstanding your rant and please excuse me if I did. But look at how charts have evolved from when the site 1st started. CIA rave used to be an FMO lol.

The fun would be in the challange you presented YOURSELF based on the difficulty that was even ACROSS the board. The fun is in new SONGS, have we all forgotten that half the point of this game is the MUSIC?! Sorry, I love reading the pattern and making my old broken hands try to do them, but I am here for the MUSIC, and I am here to FEEL LIKE I AM PLAYING THAT MUSIC WITH 4 NOTES. It is the same reason I play Rock band, or Patapon. The MUSIC and the RHYTHM, NOT mindless " I have to turn off the music just to try to follow this because the steps are so off ". Look at my AAA record, notice I still have PLENTY on 3 - 8's NOT AAA, even though a LOT of them are. Why? Because those songs are FUN, I enjoy the SONG, AND, I enjoy the steps that go along with those songs, letting me feel like I am actually PLAYING the song, that I am interacting with it, not just " trying to keep up ". I have NO problem with FFR evolving, not one bit. Again I restate, I DO have a problem with MANY of the songs within each difficulty category being VASTLY different to one another. I do not even have any qualms with " Hard " songs, none at all, but only when they are in the correct difficulty level for that song.

[who_cares973]

This argument has been made before and people agree but nothing is ever done about it

[Oni-Paranoia]

Originally Posted by 00Razor00

You really can't get mad at simfile artists for stepping what's in the music.

This.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by who_cares973

This argument has been made before and people agree but nothing is ever done about it

And this. Make a thread.

[Poptronix]

Originally Posted by Shaydow

The fun would be in the challange you presented YOURSELF based on the difficulty that was even ACROSS the board. The fun is in new SONGS, have we all forgotten that half the point of this game is the MUSIC?! Sorry, I love reading the pattern and making my old broken hands try to do them, but I am here for the MUSIC, and I am here to FEEL LIKE I AM PLAYING THAT MUSIC WITH 4 NOTES. It is the same reason I play Rock band, or Patapon. The MUSIC and the RHYTHM, NOT mindless " I have to turn off the music just to try to follow this because the steps are so off ". Look at my AAA record, notice I still have PLENTY on 3 - 8's NOT AAA, even though a LOT of them are. Why? Because those songs are FUN, I enjoy the SONG, AND, I enjoy the steps that go along with those songs, letting me feel like I am actually PLAYING the song, that I am interacting with it, not just " trying to keep up ". I have NO problem with FFR evolving, not one bit. Again I restate, I DO have a problem with MANY of the songs within each difficulty category being VASTLY different to one another. I do not even have any qualms with " Hard " songs, none at all, but only when they are in the correct difficulty level for that song.

Use offset if you think the music syncing is off with the arrow syncing.

Technically speaking, FFR evolves with its music so you DO have a problem with the new step era.

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by Shaydow

The fun would be in the challange you presented YOURSELF based on the difficulty that was even ACROSS the board. The fun is in new SONGS, have we all forgotten that half the point of this game is the MUSIC?! Sorry, I love reading the pattern and making my old broken hands try to do them, but I am here for the MUSIC, and I am here to FEEL LIKE I AM PLAYING THAT MUSIC WITH 4 NOTES. It is the same reason I play Rock band, or Patapon. The MUSIC and the RHYTHM, NOT mindless " I have to turn off the music just to try to follow this because the steps are so off ". Look at my AAA record, notice I still have PLENTY on 3 - 8's NOT AAA, even though a LOT of them are. Why? Because those songs are FUN, I enjoy the SONG, AND, I enjoy the steps that go along with those songs, letting me feel like I am actually PLAYING the song, that I am interacting with it, not just " trying to keep up ". I have NO problem with FFR evolving, not one bit. Again I restate, I DO have a problem with MANY of the songs within each difficulty category being VASTLY different to one another. I do not even have any qualms with " Hard " songs, none at all, but only when they are in the correct difficulty level for that song.

Brevity is the soul of wit, brother.

Originally Posted by Translation

I enjoy the music of FFR just as much as the stepfile. Some stepfiles feel "off" from the music and this gets in the way of my enjoying the song.

There are some easier files I still play despite having AAA'd them. I do this because I enjoy the song and the steps seem to feel right for me.

I do not mind that FFR is evolving. My main complaint is not specifically about hard files, but rather that the range of challenge within each difficulty level is too broad.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Shaydow

The fun would be in the challange you presented YOURSELF based on the difficulty that was even ACROSS the board. The fun is in new SONGS, have we all forgotten that half the point of this game is the MUSIC?! Sorry, I love reading the pattern and making my old broken hands try to do them, but I am here for the MUSIC, and I am here to FEEL LIKE I AM PLAYING THAT MUSIC WITH 4 NOTES. It is the same reason I play Rock band, or Patapon. The MUSIC and the RHYTHM, NOT mindless " I have to turn off the music just to try to follow this because the steps are so off ". Look at my AAA record, notice I still have PLENTY on 3 - 8's NOT AAA, even though a LOT of them are. Why? Because those songs are FUN, I enjoy the SONG, AND, I enjoy the steps that go along with those songs, letting me feel like I am actually PLAYING the song, that I am interacting with it, not just " trying to keep up ". I have NO problem with FFR evolving, not one bit. Again I restate, I DO have a problem with MANY of the songs within each difficulty category being VASTLY different to one another. I do not even have any qualms with " Hard " songs, none at all, but only when they are in the correct difficulty level for that song.

No reason to get so upset I was merely pointing out that the same things over and over would get boring. The charts do represent the music it's just representing multiple parts of the music. I don't know if you're quite getting across what it is you're upset about. One minute it's about the difficulties being so vast, which I agree with I'd rather we had a scale of fifty or even 100 difficulties. But then you complain that charts have too much going on in them and that you don't like hands or this or that which is just evolution in stepcharting in general. Most times hands represent a loud sound in the song like a loud cymbal crash. If you truly listen to the music you'll understand what the stepartist is layering in and that it does follow the music.

I should also point out that we can't only cater to the casual players. There are a lot of players of all diff skill levels. This just goes along with charts in general, not the difficulty system being screwy. ffr has been around for a long time, we need some way to provide new challenges for people.

[Poptronix]

We used hands ever since life started, just saying. FFR pooped out charts from SM, and SM has been using them from the beginning.

So it's completely normal.

[ninjaKIWI]

Originally Posted by Shaydow

The fun would be in the challange you presented YOURSELF based on the difficulty that was even ACROSS the board. The fun is in new SONGS, have we all forgotten that half the point of this game is the MUSIC?! Sorry, I love reading the pattern and making my old broken hands try to do them, but I am here for the MUSIC, and I am here to FEEL LIKE I AM PLAYING THAT MUSIC WITH 4 NOTES. It is the same reason I play Rock band, or Patapon. The MUSIC and the RHYTHM, NOT mindless " I have to turn off the music just to try to follow this because the steps are so off ". Look at my AAA record, notice I still have PLENTY on 3 - 8's NOT AAA, even though a LOT of them are. Why? Because those songs are FUN, I enjoy the SONG, AND, I enjoy the steps that go along with those songs, letting me feel like I am actually PLAYING the song, that I am interacting with it, not just " trying to keep up ". I have NO problem with FFR evolving, not one bit. Again I restate, I DO have a problem with MANY of the songs within each difficulty category being VASTLY different to one another. I do not even have any qualms with " Hard " songs, none at all, but only when they are in the correct difficulty level for that song.

refer to my previous post.