06-9-2011, 08:13 PM | #41 |
Banned
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
KBO's like the shitstain of rhythm gaming
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06-9-2011, 08:47 PM | #42 | |
Supreme Dictator For Life
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
I never called them pointless. I called them dumb and silly =p.
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06-9-2011, 09:54 PM | #43 | |
behanjc & me are <3'ers
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
Quote:
I'm standing by my position of not adding in statistics/goals/mechanics such as grand total. I believe there are other ways of getting more players without having to stoop that low, such as achievements (that are meaningful, such as getting a certain rank on a set). I am also not opposed to a statistic such as "ranked total for the week," because at least that is temporary.
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06-9-2011, 10:03 PM | #44 |
Banned
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
so stubborn
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06-9-2011, 10:12 PM | #45 |
behanjc & me are <3'ers
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
When you're the lead of a project (or part of it, in this case), you have to have a clear goal and concept in mind. Whatever happens, you have to make sure you stick to it.
I can't possibly make everyone happy, and it's not realistic to listen to every suggestion that's been given to me. I know exactly what I want to see for Keybeat, so I'll accept suggestions that fit into what I want to see, but I'm not going to change my concepts and vision simply because a handful of people said so. Stubborn I might be, but stubborn I must.
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06-10-2011, 01:29 AM | #46 |
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
dude I can link you to so many authoritative talks and articles that will basically confirm what darkshark and others here have said.
"irrelevant mechanics" are part of what games are because games themselves are irrelevant. (I don't know what you mean by 'irrelevant', because I don't know how a mechanic can be relevant, so for this I assume you mean arbitrary.) Having a direct measurement of a skill that progresses over time mixed with a linear system of achievement is a recipe for a dead game. Seriously. You can have skill-based achievements but you also need achievements that aren't based on skill, because when you test a skill that's so cut-and-dry as your grade on a song you end up with a semipermanent aristocracy of achievement, and no new player finds that attractive. Here's the scenario when a new player plays KBO and all they have to work with is the grade on a song: "well, shit. I'm 150th out of 160 on this song. everyone has the max score, let me try a harder one." "oh wow, I barely got 20 notes into that. this guy almost full comboed the song." one week later "hmm. I need a game to play. What about KBO?" "...nah. I don't have anything to do there except be good, and those guys are already way better than me. when I get closer to their position, they'll be even better than they are now. why bother?" if you STILL don't believe me, watch this talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/tom_chatfie...the_brain.html It's tempting to think "well, we had a lot of people on KBO before, but now no one wants to participate." KBO's original success was partly because it had FFR's success to work with. And FFR succeeded in part because it made everyone feel like their efforts would actually do something, even if it was an arbitrary something. If you have a grandtotal, sure it's not a good indicator of your skill but people feel like they're actually getting somewhere. They have room to move. If you play only for better grades on songs, things are going to get stagnant really fast. Sure, some people might be motivated, but the vast majority won't. This doesn't just apply to music games; it's a principle which holds across all kinds of volunteering and is why political efforts at the state level work way better than at the national level: it's easier to be involved when you feel like your efforts are doing something. |
06-10-2011, 05:27 AM | #47 |
Dark Chancellor
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
ah...bufang not listening to the community again
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06-10-2011, 09:07 AM | #48 | |
FFR Veteran
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
Quote:
Been playing there quite a while. A couple of FFR's charters make charts for this engine as well, including JS and 0. |
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06-10-2011, 09:12 AM | #49 | |
behanjc & me are <3'ers
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
Quote:
This, however, is a matter of ethics, not concept. I personally believe it's unethical to artificially buff the "addiction" to the game without adding any real gameplay to it. You can technically make a food product extremely successful and addictive by adding chemicals to it, but there are consequences for doing so. Though they are less extreme in the case of gaming, they are still definitely there. I'm not disagreeing with your main point, that the players need to feel like their efforts are doing something. This is clearly true and a given. I simply am saying that there are ways of achieving this without stooping this low ethically. Games like Starcraft, for example, have plenty of ways of rewarding the player, while doing so ethically. Almost all of the achievements a player can get in the game are directly related to skill, and prepare the player for situations they may encounter in a PvP setting. They draw the player into the game, but in the end, the deepness and complexity of the game is what the player ends up loving, not the mindless superficial mechanics.
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06-10-2011, 09:17 AM | #50 |
Cowbelling FFR
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
By the way wasnt u stargroup who decided to remove arrows from kbo? I was active back then and that totally lost me until ffr starts lagging and kbo lags less, even with orbular.
Maybe sticking to your plan isnt working :P |
06-10-2011, 09:35 AM | #51 | |
behanjc & me are <3'ers
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
Quote:
Then plan not only worked, but it spawned a bunch of extra community input and activity in the form of working on custom noteskins. The key problem right now is the distinct lack of charts in KBO. We have a solid enough userbase across rhythm gaming sites that visuals, interface, etc. are not that much of a problem. However, no interest -> no submissions -> no charts -> no interest. The focus right now should be on breaking this loop, not discussing mechanics.
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06-10-2011, 09:38 AM | #52 |
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
KBO needs grandtotal and more permanent statistics. KBO should have arrows. That is all.
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06-10-2011, 11:50 AM | #53 |
Nothing.
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
SG you are pretty damn stubborn when it comes to this stuff. Everyone else on the team wants KBO to get up off the ground and all, but your "ethics" kinda hold things back. You're trying to "add gameplay" to a game that has very little gameplay as a whole. You smash 6 keys to a beat. Nothing more. You can make the game as mind bogglingly beautiful as you want, and add 10 trillion songs, but unless people have something to make them feel accomplished, then they aren't going to continue playing. WHICH IS WHY NOBODY PLAYS KBO.
If this were some sort of game with an in-depth storyline or something else that would immerse the player mentally, then I'd be down for cutting out statistics, but this is not the case. It's a repetitive game, based around SELF IMPROVEMENT...and if you can't track how much better you're getting, then there's no point in playing. ps tell blast to just use the default checkboxes o___o you don't need a graphic for those. |
06-10-2011, 11:54 AM | #54 |
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
P.S. nice judging panel
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06-10-2011, 01:01 PM | #55 | |
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
lets fucen DO IT. hueheheuehehuehueheuhue
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06-10-2011, 01:03 PM | #56 |
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
Let's add an adventure mode!
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06-10-2011, 01:04 PM | #57 |
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
With multiplayer co-op mode !!
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06-10-2011, 01:12 PM | #58 | |
behanjc & me are <3'ers
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
Quote:
I don't want grand total statistics. I'm okay with total for the week. I'm okay with total for the month. I'm okay with meaningful achievements. All of these things "track how much better you're getting." I still don't want grand totals.
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06-10-2011, 01:16 PM | #59 |
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
Please wait warmly as rhythm gamers are preparing....
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06-10-2011, 01:23 PM | #60 | |
Nothing.
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Re: KeyBeatOnline.com
Quote:
** Let's look at my grandtotal here on FFR for instance. I had an all time high of rank 3 in grand total score, BECAUSE I PLAYED THIS GAME A ****LOAD, and getting it to rank 3 made me feel accomplished, even though we all know grand total is not a measurement of skill in any way, it pushed me to PLAY MORE, which in turn MADE ME BETTER and I could track my actual skill progress through other statistical data on the site. I know for a fact a huge portion of this site likes seeing their grand total rank go up, and we all know exactly what it measures. Until you come up with a good replacement for grand total, I say it goes into the game. Last edited by darkshark; 06-10-2011 at 01:43 PM.. |
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