11 Things the Bible Bans, But You Do Anyway

[cixOclock]

Originally Posted by Izzy

What a terrible arguement.

Just because someone may have lack of knowledge or even a lack of discernability doesn't make their statements any less elligable.

And no I'm not aiming this at Bball.

If people are happy with what some call ignorance, then let it be so.
If people are happy with thinking that God does not exist, so be it.

There is no point in trying to think that one person is worse off than the other, I strongly disagree with full out fanaticism. But I believe whole heartedly in a God.

And I'm happy with it.
Same with how gays are happy with their life style. If they're happy with it, so be it.

But don't ever think that one human is lower or dumber because of what they believe...


And I am done... I think...

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by cixOclock

Just because someone may have lack of knowledge or even a lack of discernability doesn't make their statements any less credible.

No, that is exactly what it means.

[bballa48]

Originally Posted by Izzy

What a terrible arguement.

Did I say that?

I said I, you, and everyone else doesn't understand it--so in what way can you rule out that a higher power created it?

If you can tell me how everything, and I mean EVERYTHING in the world works based on scientific analysis in the absence of a God, then fine-- you win. But until you do, simply the uncertainty of life makes it seem entirely reasonable to believe in something bigger than ourselves.

Again, not trying to prove God exists-- I am not nearly intelligent nor willing to embark on that quest. I am simply arguing that no one has any right to attack religious people for there beliefs when it is pretty dang clear that religion has had a profound effect on many peoples' (including myself) lives and, like mentioned before, has done a LOT of good in this world.

Also, I never treated him like an idiot. I respect his beliefs, I just wish he would respect mine.

[MrGiggles]

Originally Posted by cixOclock

And I am done... I think...

It's really hard to stay out of this, right? These threads should be illegal, they're like heroin. "oh, I'll just try posting once, I'll do anything once" and then suddenly you're in some ****hole alley in New Jersey while sucking a guy's dick so you can borrow his smart phone to post about your religious beliefs on FFR. Or maybe that's just my experience.

[Reincarnate]

alright bballa, hit me with any question you want

[XDark_PrinceX]

you want proof bballa read the bible, the earth was created 6000 years ago? but yet quantum and carbon dating can prove to be over 65 billion years old and the universe itself billions of trillions, but no the bible said it was all created universe and all 6000 years ago. Everything in the bible points to proving its all false.

[Izzy]

I have no problems believing in the possibility of a higher existence creating the universe, however that would be the full extent of that belief and it has absolutely nothing to do with modern religions. The idea of defaulting to the belief of a higher existence creating the universe just because mankind can't explain 100% of everything is illogical.

Another thing to note is that creationism is in the realm of non-testability and pretty much renders it irrelevant anyway.

[cixOclock]

Originally Posted by Izzy

No, that is exactly what it means.

I find your lack of empathy disturbing... *force choke*

@@XDark_PrinceX:

It does not give a date, and even though the Bible says that a thousand years is as one day, its not meant to be taken as literal but more of an illustration as to how time is percieved by God.

Its like saying: "We'll get there in thirty minutes."
When the actual trip is actually 40 or an hour... (He's a bad driver don't ask.)

[~kitty~]

Originally Posted by cixOclock

Just because someone may have lack of knowledge or even a lack of discernability doesn't make their statements any less elligable.

And no I'm not aiming this at Bball.

If people are happy with what some call ignorance, then let it be so.
If people are happy with thinking that God does not exist, so be it.

There is no point in trying to think that one person is worse off than the other, I strongly disagree with full out fanaticism. But I believe whole heartedly in a God.

And I'm happy with it.
Same with how gays are happy with their life style. If they're happy with it, so be it.

But don't ever think that one human is lower or dumber because of what they believe...


And I am done... I think...

I feel like this is what I've been trying to say.

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by cixOclock

I find your lack of empathy disturbing... *force choke*

I don't get it. Are you trying to claim that someone can still be credible even with the lack of knowledge on a subject?

[bballa48]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

alright bballa, hit me with any question you want

To be honest, I know anything I say you will come up with a reason for it. I realize you are incredibly intelligent and will admit you will dominate me in this. No shame in admitting that, right?

I will say that your "evidence" for the initial creation of life is no more compelling to me than my evidence (intelligent design via a creator). You believe in the validity of modern testing instruments and techniques. What evidence do you have that these are correct? How do we know that all of the laws that guard the universe also held during the creation of Earth?

I would argue we don't know and that your evidence requires some faith as well.

Edit: You know what, screw all that. I am not going to get into a debate about which theory has more evidence.

Simply put, religion and the concept of "God" has brought a lot of joy and comfort to many peoples' lives. The fact that so many people believe in it is enough evidence, to me, that it obviously is "real enough" to have a positive effect on society. Whether or not the atheists here believe it exists or not is their personal choice but you have NO right to tell me or anyone else that we are ignorant for believing in something that we have FELT and truly believe to be true.

[cixOclock]

Originally Posted by bballa48

Edit: You know what, screw all that. I am not going to get into a debate about which theory has more evidence.

Simply put, religion and the concept of "God" has brought a lot of joy and comfort to many peoples' lives. The fact that so many people believe in it is enough evidence, to me, that it obviously is "real enough" to have a positive effect on society. Whether or not the atheists here believe it exists or not is their personal choice but you have NO right to tell me or anyone else that we are ignorant for believing in something that we have FELT and truly believe to be true.

Much better choice...


And oh ya, for future reference for whoever made this thread since my attention span is only 5 minutes.
Don't post anything to do with religion in chit chat.
It never stays that way...

okaizankubai

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by bballa48

To be honest, I know anything I say you will come up with a reason for it. I realize you are incredibly intelligent and will admit you will dominate me in this. No shame in admitting that, right?

I will say that your "evidence" for the initial creation of life is no more compelling to me than my evidence (intelligent design via a creator). You believe in the validity of modern testing instruments and techniques. What evidence do you have that these are correct? How do we know that all of the laws that guard the universe also held during the creation of Earth?

I would argue we don't know and that your evidence requires some faith as well.

Edit: You know what, screw all that. I am not going to get into a debate about which theory has more evidence.

Simply put, religion and the concept of "God" has brought a lot of joy and comfort to many peoples' lives. The fact that so many people believe in it is enough evidence, to me, that it obviously is "real enough" to have a positive effect on society. Whether or not the atheists here believe it exists or not is their personal choice but you have NO right to tell me or anyone else that we are ignorant for believing in something that we have FELT and truly believe to be true.

Of course anything you say "I'd come up with a reason for." That's what evidence IS -- and it doesn't require faith. Faith is belief with absence of evidence, by definition.

Your argument is like saying "Ungh, come on, Bill Clinton was never President. How can you prove that reality wasn't different a few years ago and that your memories are just false? Don't bother giving me any evidence showing that Bill Clinton was President because you can't prove that Bob Dole *wasn't* actually President."

There's no evidence suggesting that the laws were any different (although things get sketchy at t=0) before we were sentient. The current state of our universe can be explained through various processes and laws which govern rules which are still consistent to this very day. There are various ways we can date things:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dalr...old_earth.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH200.html

All of them use completely different approaches using completely different "clocks" and they're all consistent with each other. Under your logic, how do you know that what was true five minutes ago isn't true now?

Saying that "the current state of the universe just LOOKS as if it were billions of years old and governed by the same laws over time" is moving the goalposts. We go by evidence -- we don't look at the evidence and then posit something that is without evidence for the sake of upholding a different conclusion. There's already more than enough evidence to show that we weren't created by a designer.

I also advise you to check out http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html to see a massive list of Creationist claims and how/why they're debunked.

[Izzy]

Just for the sake of clarifying my point on creationism being non-testable, I wasn't referring to the idea of life being created. I meant something such as a higher existence starting the trigger for the universe or something to that extent.

[-zeroSKILL-]

Okay... As an agnostic-atheist myself, my deep seated hatred for religion began as a child when (from my perception) it was being force fed to me by family. I'm not going to listen to your beliefs and accept them as true without first seeing the evidence, and after explaining this even at age 6 they continued to try and convert me (and still do to a lesser extent today). This was the start of my hatred for religion.

My hatred for it has only evolved over time. I've studied it here and there and pondered over the huge logical fallacies of some of the scriptures and in the end exhausted myself in even trying to understand why people believe what I consider absolute rubbish. It's something I've given up completely on, but this also is not the reason for my absolute hatred of organized religion.

My hatred of religion was acquired when I began independently studying, most notably after I finished reading Michio Kaku's "Beyond Einstein: The Cosmic Quest For The Theory of the Universe" at age 12. After reading this book I began to look more closely at the world around me. I studied the way we had shaped our world, built everything we had from what nature had given us and marveled at the way we had progressed to where we were. When I think about the progress we've made as a society it always astounds me.

Science has put us where we are. Science is what continues to advance us.

When I think of the scientific advancements we could have made throughout history without religious oppression or religious involvement it actually gets me mad.

This kind of explains what I mean...


And we have the current issues that are widely known about in today's world that churches are fighting against such as stem cell research.

I don't want to make this post unnecessarily long, but I did want to clarify why I am extremely against religion. I have the agree with Reincarnate's comparison of religion to a toxin. It's poisoning all of your brains. Please stop trying to infect everyone else just because you now suffer from this poison.

[Reincarnate]

The Erosion of Progress by Religions (Neil deGrasse Tyson): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oxTMUTOz0w

It's really a shame

[speeddemon]

In a sort of response to the earlier argument about looking at the pros and cons of religion, what is charity next to the millions upon millions of lives destroyed in such horrendous fashions that the religious seem to excel at creating? So many atrocities can be attributed to religion it's not even funny. And while religion may attempt to shape morals, it is often twisted by those who are truly evil to justify their actions. For every person it helps to find the goodness in their hearts, I can assure you there is another who has simply used it to make themselves believe they are righteous.

My main problem with religion is the constant attempts at conversion and hatemongering, the corruption it often sows, and the hypocrisy that is often a result. To me, it's like a pedophile luring children with promises of candy beyond their wildest imaginations, then convinces them to keep silent out of fear of the repercussions. Beyond that, I am simply tired of the sense of self importance it brings. I have never in my life met a single person who does not believe they are better because they have found religion. Never. They may smile and nod, but you can always see the pity in their eyes, hear their whispers behind your back about "finding the way".

Granted many atheists will act in a similar fashion, shaking their heads and saying how blind the religious are, but at least the ones I've met generally do not put themselves on a pedestal and attempt to avoid religious debates because they know that people tend to become fanatical and many a bridge can be burned in a simple argument.

I have a great example from my own life about one of the problems with the religious. Approximately a year and a half ago, I met someone who made me question my own sexuality without even trying to, and so we attempted to date, etc. For the first 3 months or so it was great, because his parents had no clue. Then he told them, and suddenly any attempt to meet was choked, until finally, about 1 month after that, his mother had a massive argument in the hope to force him into breaking up with me because of her Christian beliefs. I did not see or speak to him outside of school for 2 months, then had no opportunity whatsoever after i graduated because of the lock down she put on his life. In time it lessened, but for the past 9-10 months i have only been able to see him approximately 45 minutes a week, between 6 and 7 am, all because of a religious belief.

Given how it destroys relationships as easily as that, can you really blame people for acting so abrasively towards religion, since oftentimes the basis for such a thing is from beliefs instilled by a religion?

[Reincarnate]

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Have You Heard This?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCn_TYbdXyM

I love this part (6:14 onward):

"I want someone to put electrodes on my head. And when I reflect on our kinship with the cosmos -- when I do the calculations that show that a 15 ton meteorite that we have at the Rose Center for Earth and space -- it’s an iron meteorite. When I do the calculations that shows if you take all the iron from the hemoglobin of the people in the tristate area of NY City. You can recover that much iron out of their blood and realize that the iron from that meteorite and the iron from your blood have common origin in the core of a star.

Tell me what part of my brain is lighting up? Because that excites me. That makes me want to grab people in the street and say “Have you heard this?!" That it is not simply as Carl Sagan says: “We are starstuff”. But there’s a more poetic and I think more accurate way to say it. It’s quite literally true that “we are stardust.” In the highest exalted way one can use that phrase.

And so I feel and I use words -- I bask in the majesty of the cosmos. I use words, Compose sentences that sound like the sentences I hear out of people who have revelations of Jesus who go on pilgrimages to Mecca, there is some commonality of feeling. I know it, I want someone to do that experiment. Because the day you do. If the same centers in my brain are excited by these comic thoughts as are going on in the mind of a religious person. That is something to know. That is going to be a really interesting finding.Because what that tells me as an educator is “Let me offer the Universe to the people” and they will start taking it in and they will start achieving those fellings that they had before. And I don’t care if they abandon previous feelings. I’ve got an offering that keeps growing, that keeps becoming more majestic. "

'I Am Offended!' - Richard Dawkins @ UC Berkeley: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaJel...layer_embedded

[~kitty~]

Blah, I give up. Religion has never done me any good. Whenever I think about my Religious family, I realize that I can just take the good things and leave everything else out, and actually not be in a religion. However, believing in a God doesn't make one lack of intelligence or wisdom or something. They can be truly intelligent and sane, but may think there's some reason to believe in such a thing yet lack the knowledge of it.

However, I hate the argument my dad makes. He thinks you can't deny God because you can't see "air," and you can't see God. Apparently this is what makes God exists and science stupid. I find it funny that to the atomic scale, you actually can see "air," and God is a being of existence that defies logic, depending on how you define who and/or what God is. I don't define God as most people do, and I am not saying he does exist. However, I think if God exists, there's no reason to believe he actually has emotions, or that he exists as a being like us with a consciousness like this, and there couldn't really be a train of thought in God, for he exists outside of time. It really makes you wonder, then, what is God? A lot of people I encountered say, "We are mortal and we will never understand God." That, I believe, is very hypocritical to say if you are a Christian. It implies that your Creator who apparently loves you in a humanly way (in which it almost would actually mean we are tiny 'God's') expects you to never know him until your death, but that's very sketchy. I would like a rational Christian to really tell me they can believe in their God.

If God exists, if an afterlife exists... I don't think it would be anything like what people say it is in their "holy books." There's no indication that we can believe any of it. However, the way I live my life, it could be convenient to believe there is, even if it seems absurd. Generally it helps with my mood sometimes. It pisses me off, however, to think of this God as what most people do, because then I would be better off dead. :s

I could never say that to my parents, though. They would hate me. I do think, though, that a lot of those who accuse Religion are biased. It's not that bad, and intelligent people can be religious and not in denial. However, a lot of you (especially Reincarnate) bring up good points in the flaws of Religion. Zero, that graph only represents Christianity, so it's not exactly determinate of your claim, but I wouldn't be surprised if the results were similar for others as well. This is probably going to be one of my last posts here, so whatever. Some of you might think I'm retarded or an idiot, think I am posting shit or something, but don't expect that to change how I think.

EDIT: Rereading what I typed, the reason I don't think the afterlife and God wont be the same is because of the convenience to us is just too great, and considering how the world exists, I can't really say that if these things exist, it really would make sense that a good God and a dream afterlife would be possible.

[OneHandNow]

I enjoyed those videos, Marcus.

Thanks