Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

[dore]

you have to have some sort of transparency in the system for judging to work. If you leave it open to the community, you can have a bunch of people going

1/5 song sucks
1/5 i cant fc
1/5 i hate [insert simauthor or musician or whatever here]
1/5 lol im going to do this to every file

with judges, everybody knows what everybody says about every file, and it's easy enough to air grievances about particular files/judges/whatever and have it worked out in an appropriate manner if someone feels treated unfairly.

I honestly don't mind having lots of judges. I also think it's good to have new judges enter the system and backups and whatnot. I'd rather see the system with multiple levels of judging though, because I think it's a little unfair for a file to get in the game/not get in the game but still be subject to the fact that you're making files for essentially a random audience (you don't know exactly who is going to judge your file, their preferences, their prejudices, etc.). It's impossible to completely put aside personal preferences and prejudices, but experienced judges are more experienced in doing so able to do so, and it's more difficult to do so while you're still getting into the groove of judging for FFR.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by dore

you have to have some sort of transparency in the system for judging to work. If you leave it open to the community, you can have a bunch of people going

1/5 song sucks
1/5 i cant fc
1/5 i hate [insert simauthor or musician or whatever here]
1/5 lol im going to do this to every file

Totally agree with that - many people (even veterans) won't be able to provide useful opinions. Also, considering that the people who make fine distinctions between 3/5, 4/5, and 5/5 usually get totally overruled by the percentage of users who vote 1/5, if we did any community voting system, we'd probably want to make it just a thumbs up / thumbs down vote, like on YouTube or the FFR profiles.

Originally Posted by dore

I'd rather see the system with multiple levels of judging though, because I think it's a little unfair for a file to get in the game/not get in the game but still be subject to the fact that you're making files for essentially a random audience (you don't know exactly who is going to judge your file, their preferences, their prejudices, etc.).

This is a really good point, especially since the line is so thin and judges can be so subjective (last batch: 17 = flat out accept, 15 = flat out reject). Maybe the files that are obvious accept or reject (like, say, 2+ points off the grey line, which in the last batch was 16 pts) would be treated as such, and the files that are closer to the line would be reviewed by a second group of judges, to see what a bigger consensus would say about it.

[ichliebekase]

Originally Posted by qqwref

This is a really good point, especially since the line is so thin and judges can be so subjective (last batch: 17 = flat out accept, 15 = flat out reject). Maybe the files that are obvious accept or reject (like, say, 2+ points off the grey line, which in the last batch was 16 pts) would be treated as such, and the files that are closer to the line would be reviewed by a second group of judges, to see what a bigger consensus would say about it.

Another thing to point out with this is there were many instances where the scores for one file from 4 judges was 1, 2, 3, and 4. I actually had 2 files like that. If something like this happens, I'd think that would be a case where it should be judged by another set of judges because of such a wide range :/

Subjectivemanias running wild.

[dore]

Originally Posted by qqwref

This is a really good point, especially since the line is so thin and judges can be so subjective (last batch: 17 = flat out accept, 15 = flat out reject). Maybe the files that are obvious accept or reject (like, say, 2+ points off the grey line, which in the last batch was 16 pts) would be treated as such, and the files that are closer to the line would be reviewed by a second group of judges, to see what a bigger consensus would say about it.

That's basically what I would prefer to see. Have teams like normal go through everything, and then files that get 15+ points or maybe 14+ go to a team of more experienced judges (who either could be spread out among the other teams or not judge the first round). Then Team Tass (lol) could make final judgments. Then for borderline files the judges could consider the original judgments as well as discuss amongst each other which files go in/out.

[kommisar]

wow are people still complaining about judges and bias? there's like 20 of us. the main reason is to avoid bias. get over it. your files don't make it in, there's obviously a good reason for it. no more whining plz.

[jimerax]

Final pic of this batch.


Also, as for 12 primary judges of this time,

[In]
Silvuh, bmah, Arch0wl

[Out]
samurai7694, buizel8888, Vote4Nixon

I'll determine the group members and files to judge for groups later, then send the batch file.

[who_cares973]

Looks like there will be a lot of rejects in this batch

[who_cares973]

wc judging checklist:

have you submitted to at least 3 batches before?
do you have at least one file in game?
have you stepped at least 15 files?
have you ever critiqued files before?
have you stepped a file in the past 3 months?
do you have prior judging experience?
would you say you have a firm grasp of the stepping basics?
can at least one well known stepper vouch for you?

if you answered no to 3 or more then you are not qualified to judge/backup judge in my opinion

[cedolad]

Originally Posted by who_cares973

wc judging checklist:

have you submitted to at least 3 batches before?
do you have at least one file in game?
have you stepped at least 15 files?
have you ever critiqued files before?
have you stepped a file in the past 3 months?
do you have prior judging experience?
would you say you have a firm grasp of the stepping basics?
can at least one well known stepper vouch for you?

if you answered no to 3 or more then you are not qualified to judge/backup judge in my opinion

what about sort of's? I have like 2 sort ofs.

[Gundam-Dude]

I answered no to the first two questions

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Originally Posted by cedolad

what about sort of's? I have like 2 sort ofs.

sort of = no

[Niala]

Since we're doing this: I answered no only to "Do you have a file in game?"

EDIT: Btw I resent Colibri again 'cause I'm a big *** and made more fixes. If it's not a huge trouble can you put it in the batch? <3?

[i love you]

I answered yes to all of them so I'm good hehe

[TC_Halogen]

I don't think it's entirely necessary to have stepped a certain amount of files to show an understanding of rhetoric. In terms of "finished" files that were outside of DF and shown to a demographic that is a bit stricter in terms of chart judgment, I only have 12 files (this excludes pad, as well).

I HAVE LIKE 70 WIPS THOUGH LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Coolboyrulez0]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

I don't think it's entirely necessary to have stepped a certain amount of files to show an understanding of rhetoric. In terms of "finished" files that were outside of DF and shown to a demographic that is a bit stricter in terms of chart judgment, I only have 12 files (this excludes pad, as well).

I HAVE LIKE 70 WIPS THOUGH LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

had about 160 wips accumulated through a 3-year span before i ragequit deleted stepmania last year.

Now I have ~2-3 because I take stepping more seriously, and spend more time on individual files rather than starting on new ones every few days.

[Arch0wl]

I'm not sure how many completed files I've made. I know it was over 150 after the release of the Hammer of Thor pack; it might be around 160 or 170 now.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by Coolboyrulez0

had about 160 wips accumulated through a 3-year span before i ragequit deleted stepmania last year.

Now I have ~2-3 because I take stepping more seriously, and spend more time on individual files rather than starting on new ones every few days.

I've tried spending time on individual files and sometimes, it really just doesn't help. A lot of these files I had given a good amount of effort to but they still ended up going absolutely nowhere.

[Coolboyrulez0]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

I've tried spending time on individual files and sometimes, it really just doesn't help. A lot of these files I had given a good amount of effort to but they still ended up going absolutely nowhere.

If you ever get stuck real badly, contact me.
I'll gladly take a peek at your WIPs and finish for them.

I guess I have some odd fetish with collaborating with every simfile artist on FFR and so far it's going relatively well.
[blu, samurai - in game; who_cares, xander, sf - in progress or submitted]

[Arch0wl]

HOW TO FINISH WIPs:

(1) have a laptop (which most college students probably do)
(2) have headphones
(3) go to IHOP or some other 24-hour place that just happens to not have internet

Trust me when I say the lack of internet will increase your simfile productivity by roughly 500%.

It's ridiculously nerdy to make a special trip just for simfiles, yes, but its not like you were going to do anything important anyway and you get to get out of your house as a bonus.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

HOW TO FINISH WIPs:

(1) have a laptop (which most college students probably do)
(2) have headphones
(3) go to IHOP or some other 24-hour place that just happens to not have internet

Trust me when I say the lack of internet will increase your simfile productivity by roughly 500%.

It's ridiculously nerdy to make a special trip just for simfiles, yes, but its not like you were going to do anything important anyway and you get to get out of your house as a bonus.

HAHAHA

That's so FUNNY because of how true it is -- when we were living in PA and waiting to transfer our internet service to and from charts, I finished seven different charts (four pad, three keyboard) in a span of around 4 days.