Ingame Song Information

[qqwref]

Since this is still the FFR difficulties thread... I think the three files released today are FMOs. And here's why:
- Clockwork starts off easy, but it's full of 220bpm stream patterns (some with little 32nd bits in them) and 32nd rolls. That's almost the same speed as Necropotence (222bpm). They're not all straight rolls either (some have slower 16th 4321 patterns after, some have a 32nd before, etc) so they are pretty tricky to read and hit.
- Floating Hour has a TON of jacks at 129bpm (that's the speed of the main section). Not just single jacks, there are jumps that intersect on one note, 32nd minitrills (with at least one 434 pattern), and some short 32nd streams. So this file requires a pretty significant amount of speed to AAA.
- It's Only Natural has a seriously dumb trill section. That's it, the rest of the file isn't really hard. But that trill (which, oh yeah, isn't straight 16th rhythms) is tough to FC, and I think it's a little too much to have a 3 minute long mid-VC with something like that in it. It's not quite as bad as the one in Sonata, but still. Ugh.

[jimerax]

I say,

Clockwork - 76-77, could be FMO
Floating Hour - 75
It's Only Natural - 73-74

[Coolboyrulez0]

Originally Posted by jimerax

I say,

Clockwork - 76-77, could be FMO
Floating Hour - 75
It's Only Natural - 73-74

This is correct, imo. Low FMO, High VC, Mid VC.

[stavie33]

Master Maid should be VC. It's the first time I've sat down at a song and said "wow, this is piss easy, I should AAA it", and AAA'd it immediately, don't know why I didn't do it before. You can jump trill all the rolls, and everything else is REALLY simple 16th jumpstream, similar IMO to Planetz and stuff, every 75 in the game is harder IMO.

[qqwref]

So wait, you guys are honestly sitting here and looking at Novo Mundo, Choprite, J&C, Angel Island, Rottel, LW1, etc. and thinking that they are all *harder* than Master Maid, Flying High, Feldschlacht, and the other extremely technical "high VC" songs?

[OneHandNow]

Originally Posted by stavie33

Master Maid should be VC. It's the first time I've sat down at a song and said "wow, this is piss easy, I should AAA it", and AAA'd it immediately, don't know why I didn't do it before. You can jump trill all the rolls, and everything else is REALLY simple 16th jumpstream, similar IMO to Planetz and stuff, every 75 in the game is harder IMO.

i find master maid to be a pretty high FMO compared to novo mundo, choprite, etc.

a lot of "technical VCs" as qqwref mentioned are actually harder than a LOT of FMO files..

[stavie33]

Originally Posted by OneHandNow

i find master maid to be a pretty high FMO compared to novo mundo, choprite, etc.

a lot of "technical VCs" as qqwref mentioned are actually harder than a LOT of FMO files..

FYI, I still can't AAA Novo no matter what I do, I ALWAYS get a BF on those rolls, where in Master Maid, it's nearly impossible to get a good in the rolls if you jump trill right, while in novo mundo, it's too slow to jump trill so you have to roll it and it's an awkward speed that starts at a jump, so I always hit a good somewhere

And yes, all the 75's that are not VB are harder to AAA than half the low FMO's IMO.

[stavie33]

Originally Posted by qqwref

So wait, you guys are honestly sitting here and looking at Novo Mundo, Choprite, J&C, Angel Island, Rottel, LW1, etc. and thinking that they are all *harder* than Master Maid, Flying High, Feldschlacht, and the other extremely technical "high VC" songs?

3 things

1. Out of all the FMO's listed, I've AAA'd all of them BUT Novo Mundo and J&C (both of which I've BF'd)
2. Master Maid is the example of a non technical file, and what makes most of the FMO's, it's just fast, but very straight forward
3. I think that every 75 except VB is harder than nearly all the low FMO's, as they carry the same syndrome as Master Maid, fast, but simple patterns, where as the 75's (and other technical VC's like Feldschlatt, Keep in Mind, Bus Rides with People, Djdj PVC, etc.) are slower, but have extremely complex patterns and weird beats, with strange colored bursts and jacks, I think they are ALL harder than almost every 76-77.

PS Angel Island should be VC

[jimerax]

Originally Posted by stavie33

PS Angel Island should be VC

I have to agree with this, and it's not even borderline.

VC now.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by stavie33

3. I think that every 75 except VB is harder than nearly all the low FMO's, as they carry the same syndrome as Master Maid, fast, but simple patterns, where as the 75's (and other technical VC's like Feldschlatt, Keep in Mind, Bus Rides with People, Djdj PVC, etc.) are slower, but have extremely complex patterns and weird beats, with strange colored bursts and jacks, I think they are ALL harder than almost every 76-77.

Right, and since the 76-77s have been ingame longer than most of the new 74-75s, I think it makes a lot of sense to push the new high VCs up to low FMO.


PS: Here's a way to objectively, numerically determine whether the community seems to find one song easier or harder than another (although you can only do it for songs that have been out at least a few weeks, to allow people to optimize their scores a bit):
1) Get a list of all people who've recorded a positive score on both songs, and include their scores. Remove anyone who hasn't passed both songs (their P+G+A+M is not equal to the max possible combo). If you want, you can remove people who aren't good enough at the song (say, anyone with more than 20 misses or more than 100 boos).
2) Convert the score into Lost Raw Score (LRS), which I'll define as G*25 + A*45 + M*60 + B*5. This is the difference between that score and the AAA, PA wise.
3) Remove anyone from the list who has the same LRS for both songs.
4) Now, give one point to the first song to each person who has less LRS on that song, and the same for the second.
5) If the first song has more than 55% (pick a threshhold, something above 50%) of the points, you can say that that song is easier. Similarly for the second song. If neither has enough points, you can say that there's no significant difficulty difference.

[Niala]

Originally Posted by jimerax

I have to agree with this, and it's not even borderline.

VC now.

STOP TAKING AWAY MY FMO AAA'S!

God help me *mumble mumble...*

Is this game seriously turning into: "Ohey, let's go check Niala's level ranks and see which FMOs he's AAA'd and then turn them into VCs!" 'cause this is the third goddamn time you've done this.

/rage

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Stavie, all I have to say is you need to stop being biased when coming up with difficulties. Enough of this "oh if I can AAA then its easy and should be a VC", thats not how you determine difficulties. You dont go by how well YOU do on it. You should just stop offering your thoughts, everytime you post you look retarded and arent any help. Mater Maid a VC, common now, you should be kicked in the nuts for that. >_>

[bob bob]

just because you can aaa, dosent mean everyone else can


derp

[stavie33]

Originally Posted by Plan_Bsk81127

Stavie, all I have to say is you need to stop being biased when coming up with difficulties. Enough of this "oh if I can AAA then its easy and should be a VC", thats not how you determine difficulties. You dont go by how well YOU do on it. You should just stop offering your thoughts, everytime you post you look retarded and arent any help. Mater Maid a VC, common now, you should be kicked in the nuts for that. >_>

I almost never base a difficulty on how well I do on the song, you can look through this entire thread, and other than that post, it will be hard to find, if you look at where I define difficulties, it's based strictly on steps. And based on steps, just compare Master Maid to For FFR, Master Maid is significantly easier in almost everyway, basic 16th jumpstream that's more simplistic than half the VC's we have now (much easier than Balloon Fevers jump parts), and the roll walls are no where near as complex or annoying as the switch in patterns or awkward speed of the roll walls in For FFR. I can name over 8 VC's with significantly more complex rhythmic patterns and faster speed than Master Maid, and just because something has roll walls, doesn't mean it should be FMO, look at the roll wall at the end of Procrastination on Paper. I don't see a single FMO thing about the file. GoSW is significantly harder and more complex, same with Novo Mundo, which has mini jacks, strange patterns and jumpstream at an extremely awkward speed, with a roll wall that starts on a jump and can't be jumptrilled. Nothing about Master Maid is hard. Kick in the nuts? Are we talking about the same file?

[stavie33]

Actually, looking at my post, I never said it should be VC because I AAA'd it easily, I just stated I did to support my opinion. In both of the posts I said it was due to simplistic jumpstream and jumptrill'able roll walls. Both of which, by now, are def. VC patterns, otherwise Feldschlatt, Djdj pvc, Keep in Mind, Bus Rides with People, Szeretscetlan, Twelve, Counter Strike Gun Sounds, and even Crash the Beat! should all be FMO. All of those have either more speed, or significantly more complex patterns, bursts, and jumpstreams.

VB started the trend and proved the point a long time ago: 200 BPM stream is significantly less difficult than slower, but more complex rhythms and patters involving colored notes. That's why VB was moved down to VC, and we have technical files with bursts/awkward colored patterns (like OMW v2 and Jeanie and Caroline) as FMO's. Back when people knew nothing, Gradius was FGO because it was fast stream, while EHHS was VC. Back then, people pretty much said the faster the stream, the harder the file, excluding stupid **** like Silence, which people just thought was stupid. Now, we realize (with speed mods) that faster stream doesn't make something harder. Tell me what about Master Maid is FMO deserving, other than the easily jumptrillable rolls walls. If that's the only thing about it that's FMO, then Crash the Beat, with strange 24th parts, and jumpstream, with PATTERN CHANGING roll walls, would be considered FMO. I'm not high, I'm comparing files and I don't see a single FMO thing about Master Maid. Don't call me retarded.

[bob bob]

you aaa'd holy orders, that must make it a 10 then?

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Originally Posted by bob bob

you aaa'd holy orders, that must make it a 10 then?

Probably because the only hard part is the trill so it would be a 10 in his eyes.

[Niala]

Originally Posted by stavie33

Actually, looking at my post, I never said it should be VC because I AAA'd it easily, I just stated I did to support my opinion. In both of the posts I said it was due to simplistic jumpstream and jumptrill'able roll walls. Both of which, by now, are def. VC patterns, otherwise Feldschlatt, Djdj pvc, Keep in Mind, Bus Rides with People, Szeretscetlan, Twelve, and Counter Strike Gun Sounds should all be FMO. All of those have either more speed, or significantly more complex patterns, bursts, and jumpstreams.

Since we're here:

Feldschlatt I agree
didj pvc has easy frames to hit the patterns so you can **** around with the timing and still get perfects really easily so no
Keep in mind never played it
brwp is kinda awkward I guess but there's nothing that screams FMO to me
but maybe
screntelaqteateaior etc. is just long, it's not hard so no
Twelve isn't that bad the patterns are pretty comfortable so no
csgs is too short, if it repeated then maybe, but no

also master maid is an fmo stop being a prick.

[kjwkjw]

Originally Posted by Niala

also master maid is an fmo stop being a prick

Definitely this, not only because of the rolls, but also because of its density...

[who_cares973]

stavie for the love of god shut the **** up you biased asss. everything youve ever suggested has been based on how well you can do it. this goes for seriously everything from song difficulties to ****ing skill token reqs. REALIZE THAT NOT EVERYONE IS AS GOOD AS YOU AT SMASHING KEYS