Kommisar's Frenchman Stepmania Review episode 2

[gnr61]

i didn't realize he was trying to conform to the structure used by 90% of the people here o.0

do you realize the pejorative implications of calling anything that doesn't even try to adhere to some preconceived notion of how such-and-such should be done an "error?"

: rehashes arguments :
: plays king of the sea card :

[Patashu]

Originally Posted by gnr61

theres only an error in a simfile if you **** up something you were trying to do (eg. trying to layer every bass drum as a 1 note but forgetting one (read: not omitting)). :stepfile subjectivitay:

i'm sure the chart is terrible--the song sure is--but the vid hurt my eyes and i couldn't tell what was happening haha.

moral relativism

[kommisar]

well puppet why do you think everyone judges the same


pr this



layering that





INCONSISTENCY




when playing files everyone that makes files has the same idea of how a file should be made. this is thanks to years of people making files a certain way and it becoming the more popular way to make files.

[gnr61]

ok sure except that

a) -not- everybody judges the same--only people who are incapable of doing otherwise or, say, ffr judges who are required to judge that way. and

b) -not- everyone has the same idea of what makes a good file lmao how is it even possible to think this

neither PR, layering, nor consistency intrinsically add -any- quality to a file. in fact, you'll notice files that adhere to all of these things all the time tend to come out, by today's standards, exceedingly dull. if breaking from the "rules" adds ANYTHING to the file, then why is it a rule and how can you possibly justify calling it an error?

is for seasons (dcmp) completely ridden with inconsistencies and pitch relevance errors? of course not because those things weren't applied strictly to the file and it ended up being much more entertaining/expressive than, say for seasons (dcp1). if everyone judged the way you say they do and had the same ideas of what was a good file, that chart would never have seen the light of day.

of course this all applies to 4key as we know it today, especially. you can't get away with pumping out assembly line files now because IT'S BEEN DONE 10,000 TIMES. idk much about solo stepping so i doubt its reached that point plus theres far more room for variation with 6keys even within straight layering/pr exercises

is that long that seems a little long o well

[buizel8888]

thats p. much the general idea and is why most people are switching to solo

[kommisar]

done 10,000 times





this is why i don't stepman seriously anymore. weren't you the technical perfectionist?

though i would agree with you that today's standards are pretty dumb, seeing as how most files played are still from 2004

[gnr61]

Originally Posted by kommisar

done 10,000 times





this is why i don't stepman seriously anymore. weren't you the technical perfectionist?

what

though i would agree with you that today's standards are pretty dumb, seeing as how most files played are still from 2004

pretty cynical, i'd say that since all the old dogs have pretty much quit the remaining scoring players are open minded about simfiles and play a lot of recent stuff. and i never said today's standards were dumb o.0

[kommisar]

Originally Posted by gnr61

exceedingly dull.

i read that as dumb

Originally Posted by gnr61

what

i meant you pretty much follow every written rule of simfile making to the letter (thus the list of theories we worked on in dcp forums)


point is, the simfile in this video is garbage and doesn't follow any kind of structure or consistency, thus takes out most of the fun out of it and becomes apparent that it's of lesser quality

[gnr61]

Originally Posted by kommisar

i read that as dumb

did you seriously read that sentence as "today's standards are pretty dumb"?? i recommend backtracking a couple clauses

i am 100% sure that passage is "technically" grossly inaccurate. you're seeing something difficult and assuming it's technical overindulgence when i'm fairly certain the polyrhythms are neither rhythmically precise (they might be but it would be for sheer luck lmao) nor anything approaching pitch relevant so bad example

you SHOULD have posted chipscape or cccp or some other 2 year old dump :P

edit:

i meant you pretty much follow every written rule of simfile making to the letter (thus the list of theories we worked on in dcp forums)

i may have a misplaced sense of my own stepman "signature" but i would hope that (and think that) this isn't true. though if i have indeed been pumping out generic dondons for all this time then i apologize for my lack of ingenuity, i'll try to make cooler stuff in the future :P

point is, the simfile in this video is garbage and doesn't follow any kind of structure or consistency, thus takes out most of the fun out of it and becomes apparent that it's of lesser quality

this is fair enough (i've never played a QED file). the middle ground we should aim for is that pr and whatnot are fine guidelines and expressive TOOLS and TECHNIQUES, not requisite characteristics of every quality file; otherwise you denounce a whole world of pretty much -all- the best simfiles ever made

[buizel8888]

careful puppet. keep it up and you may get labeled as a QED fanboy hehehe

[kommisar]

i showed that pic as an example of layering.


breaking the rules was never an issue, i'm talking about consistency. as i said in the video, i reviewed it to my liking and how i would do things. having said that, his file still has no structure of any kind and 90% of the notes just seem thrown in there with no purpose whatsoever. there is such a thing as a quality fun file, and there are definite guidelines to do so.

[gnr61]

but thats.........one instrument...........................................the yellow notes were just random bs flourishes where its accented...or something : D

and hey its all good i might even get some of his charts just for giggles and i may reach the same conclusions. sorry for giving you a hard time jus tryna set a good example for the kids (the kids!).

ps. lmao did you just take that picture now

[kommisar]

yeah lmao.


don't apologize. I had a good morning debating stepmania issues and practicing my english

[Patashu]

sometimes bs 16ths can be a valid way to accent a file

the only real way to make a bad file is to step randomly; that is, the steps and patterns you use not matching up to the similarities and differences of the file in any consistent or progressive fashion

things like the using freezes/jumps for certain vocals at random and not others kinds of things, or putting emphasis on the beat when it ought to be on the offbeat; those are indicative of trying to do something and doing it wrong

[Lain_Iwakura]

puppet

qed fanboy

[jimerax]

well technicalty factors such as pr, layer, etc are commonly used because they are one of the most objectively understandable way of structuring. In an old standard even index friendly patterns were generally needed.

although files that just follow them would be generic so you need to your own interpretation of the song to be original.

ps. people play 2004 files because they are well known and it's a good way to show their skill by posting ss of those files, not because they are good compared to recent files.

[masuat]

Don't get it haven't all skilled stepartists who want to take their theory and stepping to the next level already gone ahead to solo, I mean at this point it's hard to say we haven't reached a saturation of the stuff already at least in 4 key.

In my view it's a little futile in current SM packs to try to only accept ART and supa amazing perfect files that little music can supply. We've come to the point where even the outstanding have become commonplace and excellent solid files are never seeing the light of day just because like the song doesn't lend itself to being stepped beyond that arbitrary line of worshipped innovation or technique that seems to move higher pack by pack.

Is releasing files that are not incredible and groundbreaking but still excellent on their own merits and above all enjoyable a bad thing? Is this not da true meaning of the stepman existence ??? ! ?! ?!

[Choofers]

Originally Posted by Patashu

sometimes bs 16ths can be a valid way to accent a file

Yeah, like stepping 16th note trills/jacks for screaming in metal simfiles (like in the bs file I'm about to release hehe)

[Wyde]

Chart seem playable enough I suppose, considering the patterns themselves don't seem to have anything deliberately or accidentally ultra-mega-mondo awkward to try and hit, and the difficulty seem relatively consistent for the most part from what I can tell. But yeah, them arrows pay so horrendously little attention to the music itself it's almost kinda funny. I always kinda thought the core idea of dance games was for the player to enjoy a game alongside the music, not forcing them to play against it or ignore it entirely.

[Patashu]

Originally Posted by Choofers

Yeah, like stepping 16th note trills/jacks for screaming in metal simfiles (like in the bs file I'm about to release hehe)

minion's abandonment LoL