Cheating in Relationships

[korny]

Originally Posted by super kid

Cheating is not heat of passion, its premeditated. People plan to cheat on their partner, unless they were under the influence or drugs, or alcohol. It can be prevented. People cheat because either they don't feel loved anymore, or they really don't care at all in which they shouldn't be in the relationship in the first place.

Wait seriously? So I knew I was going to eventually meet someone else who also had amazing chemistry, who happened to kiss me suddenly and thus flooding my mind with a sense of impaired judgment leading to sex? Those things do happen and more unexpectedly than you think. Give me a break.

Rich I'm curious. If you were with a girl, and she told you she had sex with someone the other day, but you could deduce through body language and such that she meant it when she said she still genuinely cares about you and likes you more than the other person undoubtedly, that you would not really care either way?

[Blue Bird]

Originally Posted by richhhhhard

I see what you are saying, but this is kind of going in circles. You said it was more the feeling of betrayal than jealousy, but why do you feel betrayed? Because they lied to you? Because they went behind your back? Because they hurt you. All this is saying to me is that love really is completely selfish, because when they do something that hurts you it is unforgivable. You said "Someone loves you, and by cheating on them you're basically just taking their love and stepping over it. No decent person would do that on purpose," so if we assume that they both love each other and one cheats on the other, because that person did something that broke that love, it causes you to stop loving them. It seems like what you are saying is that you love them loving you, because when they stop it makes you stop.

No no. Sorry, you misunderstood. I believe it's perfectly possible to forgive someone after they've cheated on you. Sure it hurts, but it's not the end of the world, especially if the person who cheated feels sorry for what they did, and still wants to be with you. It's up to the person who got cheated, though. Cheating does sometimes happen accidentally. It's stupid, yes. And irresponsible. It's like staying up all night playing videogames, knowing that you have work due tomorrow which you haven't done.

Just because someone loves another person though, doesn't give that person the right to do everything they want. You may still love them, but it doesn't make it right, and anyone with the least amount of self-respect will say enough's enough after they get cheated on more than once. Sure, you want them to be happy and do well in life, but where's the sense in getting together with that someone if they're just gonna go behind your back with someone else? Like you said, there has to be trust in a relationship, but what happens when that trust is broken? It's not selfish to be upset or hurt, or even mad with them, even though you love them. And I don't think it's got anything to do with jealousy.

There are certain things we expect from people. If you're about to cross a busy avenue, and there's someone behind you, you expect them not to just shove you in front of a bus. When you're in a relationship and you trust each other, you expect the person not to cheat on you. If it does happen, things didn't really go as you expected, and that makes you angry, frustrated, upset, etc. "How could you do this to me?" and so on. It doesn't make it selfish, though. We can't expect any other reaction from this situation, because if the cheated one just goes "oh that's OK honey just don't do it again" then that person has a problem. If the person just goes "yeah OK, whatever" then they obviously don't care about the relationship.

For cheating to occur, the other person has to feel "cheated". This feeling can occur outside the relationship scenario, but still triggers the same responses.

[8Shade8]

Originally Posted by richhhhhard

I would never cheat on someone, I do not see the point. However, if you really love someone doesn't that mean that you always want them to be happy? If a physical connection, or the thrill and passion involved, makes that person happier, why would you want to keep them from that? Is there anything more than jealousy involved here?

As far as I am concerned, most people in serious relationships that end in cheating are because one of the significant others has found something better that they like in someone else. In my opinion I would say that the majority of breakups are either a woman feels that she likes another man's personality better, or a man feels like his g/f isn't putting out enough. I think it is safe to say that 6/10 men are sexually driven and 6/10 women are emotionally driven.

From personal experience, I have had the "women likes another man's personality better" scenario happen to me two times now. Twice now, I have been in a serious relationship. The first one was really decent. The girl I was with was very intelligent, and I really enjoyed her company. We had a good relationship with each other until I joined the Army. She was very Democratic and against the war etc, however, eventually what it boiled down to was that she saw something else she liked in other men. (She was smart about it though, unlike my second girlfriend...I will get to that in the next paragraph). I do not know if she was with another guy or whatever, but eventually she told me to **** off because she likes "assholes". I was like wtf....I am not an asshole by nature, I stand up for myself sure, but I am not a dick to women. Apparently she doesn't like the romantic type. After the depression, and steps of denial and whatnot, I finally got over it and decided to move on.

Second relationship was the same way, except she wasn't quite as intelligent. I had actually proposed to her and we were supposed to get married before I went to Iraq. As it turns out, she decided to cheat on me and her reasoning was that "Joe you are just too nice". Again...wtf. I say she wasn't as intelligent because she actually TRIED to INTRODUCE the guy to my face and break up with me at the same time. Needless to say he ended up in the ER with a broken nose and I slept in a jail cell that night.

So I went to Iraq all emotionally ****ed up. The point of this is to answer the quoted question at the top of my post: ".....if you really love someone doesn't that mean that you always want them to be happy?" The answer to that is absolutely! First I must define "love". If I had to define "love" in my own words: Love - The unconditional caring of the people who are important to you. Of course I was enraged and I wanted to kill their new boyfriends, however, I am a bit more mature than that. I let them go be happy. After much analysis I concluded that I am 20 years old, and have a very long time to search for someone else. Younger ages are for exploring what type of women and men you like. If she want's try out different things with different people to see what can and will make her happy, I would let her do it. It would be MUCH more generous of her to let me know about it in a mature manner and not lead me on to think that she loves me more than anything in the world when she is really considering how to ditch me to try out someone else.

[super kid]

Originally Posted by korny

Wait seriously? So I knew I was going to eventually meet someone else who also had amazing chemistry, who happened to kiss me suddenly and thus flooding my mind with a sense of impaired judgment leading to sex?

Wait what? People that are married don't usually think they are going to meet someone else who had amazing chemistry. What you just said there makes it sound like that person was going to cheat if they found that person with "amazing chemistry." Also why would you be alone with that person anyway, and how would you know that person has amazing chemistry? Don't you think you would know that person for awhile to figure out he/she has the chemistry?

[Blue Bird]

Originally Posted by super kid

Wait what? People that are married don't usually think they are going to meet someone else who had amazing chemistry. What you just said there makes it sound like that person was going to cheat if they found that person with "amazing chemistry." Also why would you be alone with that person anyway, and how would you know that person has amazing chemistry? Don't you think you would know that person for awhile to figure out he/she has the chemistry?

All I can say here is... **** happens. I can think of a few scenarios where you would be alone with someone else. You think nothing is going to happen, but it's hard to tell, especially when the other person is interested in you, and even though you may be happy with your current relationship, that person has something which is attractive to you. Some people can just stop it all before it happens.

I'm just gonna throw it out there though, there's a difference between just cheating, and actually having an affair with someone else. If you have an affair, then yeah - that's your **** up. You know you're ****ing up, and you're doing it anyway. But there's also that one time thing that you regret moments after it's over. It's different. I'd say becomes an affair the moment you plan on doing it again.

[richhhhhard]

Originally Posted by korny

Wait seriously? So I knew I was going to eventually meet someone else who also had amazing chemistry, who happened to kiss me suddenly and thus flooding my mind with a sense of impaired judgment leading to sex? Those things do happen and more unexpectedly than you think. Give me a break.

I don't think that his claim was necessarily ridiculous. Unless your mind is impaired you *do* know what you are doing, and that it is "wrong." But that isn't really the point of the argument.

Originally Posted by korny

Rich I'm curious. If you were with a girl, and she told you she had sex with someone the other day, but you could deduce through body language and such that she meant it when she said she still genuinely cares about you and likes you more than the other person undoubtedly, that you would not really care either way?

I can not say for sure that i would not care, because it has not happened. Honestly though, what is the big deal? Is sex what makes a relationship? Everyone has a different idea of love and sex and how they relate, so obviously it is going to be different for everyone. But in the end what is happening? Another guy is kissing her, and or, putting his penis inside her vagina. Oh no! Does that change anything that has happened between you and her? Does that make all of your memories less meaningful?

You could look at it two ways. One way would be that sex is a sign of love, that you only share between someone that you truly love.

Another would be that sex is a pleasurable experience that both people enjoy.

Depending on your stance it would most likely change your opinion on this debate quite a lot.
In my opinion, it does not really matter. Obviously I would prefer it not to happen, but I think that if I had to choose between her being UNhappy being faithful and happy being UNfaithful, I would want her to be happy. It seems selfish any other way, no matter how you rationalize it. Trying to rationalize love rarely works out though...

But to look at it another way, consider if she was unfaithful and never said anything, and you never found out. Would it change anything then? If you continued living happily, everything was normal, and no one got hurt. So what is the difference there and when the cheater confesses due to guilt? The one that felt bad about it is punished while the one that did not is not. So what did the *act* of cheating really change? Absolutely nothing(outside of the exceptions mentioned), the only thing that is affected is YOUR feelings when you find out.

I feel like I am defending people that cheat on their loved ones, that is not what I am trying to do though. I was just trying to question peoples reasoning and motives behind it. And also if it is any more "right" to retaliate by ending the relationship, or making them feel terrible (because they hurt you is it right to hurt them?).

[korny]

Sometimes there are those instances that defy normal occurences between 2 people, and likewise, seemingly unparallel chemistry between 2 persons can be unexpectedly discovered between more than just your own wife. The woman you're married to seemed like miss perfect, until one day you're on a flight on business engaging in conversation with someone who might have you convinced she's even better in such a short amount of time. I don't even feel as if a scenario of this calibre is necessary to depict how such instances can occur. I also don't think it's really necessary to have to explain how that's just one scenario out of so many others that could happen just like it. In such scenarios, situations can always occur beyond what we ever expected to happen. Nothing is ever as certain as we convince ourselves to believe regarding the vows of marriage.

Basically it all boils down to human nature and the flaws associated with that, and each individuals means for justifying their behavior towards the different aspects within their relationship. I don't think it's fair for anyone to say that I “love” or respect someone less because we openly have sex with other people and are aware. Certain guidelines are set within your own relationship and it is between the couple to fully understand them.

[Blue Bird]

No it's not right to hurt them, just because they hurt you. That's kiddy stuff. You see it in movies a lot, though. The person cheats ends up getting shot by their partner, or something. >_> It's hard to say what's going on in their mind, but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it's a selfish act.

And dude, if she wants to be happy and UNfaithful, that's fine with me. It's not like she's the only girl in the world. And sure I love her, but I'd rather be with someone who loves me back, enough to be happy AND faithful with me.

[super kid]

Originally Posted by Blue Bird

No it's not right to hurt them, just because they hurt you. That's kiddy stuff. You see it in movies a lot, though. The person cheats ends up getting shot by their partner, or something. >_>

Steve Mcnair, and Arturo Gatti. It happens a lot in real life.

[richhhhhard]

Sorry to double post, more to respond to...

Originally Posted by Blue Bird

There are certain things we expect from people. If you're about to cross a busy avenue, and there's someone behind you, you expect them not to just shove you in front of a bus.

Haha, that made me laugh. I see what you are saying too, sorry I misunderstood the first time.

Originally Posted by 8Shade8

As far as I am concerned, most people in serious relationships that end in cheating are because one of the significant others has found something better that they like in someone else. In my opinion I would say that the majority of breakups are either a woman feels that she likes another man's personality better, or a man feels like his g/f isn't putting out enough. I think it is safe to say that 6/10 men are sexually driven and 6/10 women are emotionally driven.

From personal experience, I have had the "women likes another man's personality better" scenario happen to me two times now. Twice now, I have been in a serious relationship. The first one was really decent. The girl I was with was very intelligent, and I really enjoyed her company. We had a good relationship with each other until I joined the Army. She was very Democratic and against the war etc, however, eventually what it boiled down to was that she saw something else she liked in other men. (She was smart about it though, unlike my second girlfriend...I will get to that in the next paragraph). I do not know if she was with another guy or whatever, but eventually she told me to **** off because she likes "assholes". I was like wtf....I am not an asshole by nature, I stand up for myself sure, but I am not a dick to women. Apparently she doesn't like the romantic type. After the depression, and steps of denial and whatnot, I finally got over it and decided to move on.

Second relationship was the same way, except she wasn't quite as intelligent. I had actually proposed to her and we were supposed to get married before I went to Iraq. As it turns out, she decided to cheat on me and her reasoning was that "Joe you are just too nice". Again...wtf. I say she wasn't as intelligent because she actually TRIED to INTRODUCE the guy to my face and break up with me at the same time. Needless to say he ended up in the ER with a broken nose and I slept in a jail cell that night.

So I went to Iraq all emotionally ****ed up. The point of this is to answer the quoted question at the top of my post: ".....if you really love someone doesn't that mean that you always want them to be happy?" The answer to that is absolutely! First I must define "love". If I had to define "love" in my own words: Love - The unconditional caring of the people who are important to you. Of course I was enraged and I wanted to kill their new boyfriends, however, I am a bit more mature than that. I let them go be happy. After much analysis I concluded that I am 20 years old, and have a very long time to search for someone else. Younger ages are for exploring what type of women and men you like. If she want's try out different things with different people to see what can and will make her happy, I would let her do it. It would be MUCH more generous of her to let me know about it in a mature manner and not lead me on to think that she loves me more than anything in the world when she is really considering how to ditch me to try out someone else.

Damn, sorry that happened twice. From my experience young girls don't like nice guys but after the teen years it reverses, so I wouldn't change too much if I were you. And I agree that in any situation handling it responsibly and not concealing what is happening would be the better thing to do.

Originally Posted by Blue Bird

All I can say here is... **** happens. I can think of a few scenarios where you would be alone with someone else. You think nothing is going to happen, but it's hard to tell, especially when the other person is interested in you, and even though you may be happy with your current relationship, that person has something which is attractive to you. Some people can just stop it all before it happens.

I'm just gonna throw it out there though, there's a difference between just cheating, and actually having an affair with someone else. If you have an affair, then yeah - that's your **** up. You know you're ****ing up, and you're doing it anyway. But there's also that one time thing that you regret moments after it's over. It's different. I'd say becomes an affair the moment you plan on doing it again.

Yeah, that is a good point. If it gets to that point, and it is being done despite her knowing how it makes you feel then that would not be something that could just be ignored. I guess it just comes down to each individuals feelings on the situation.

[richhhhhard]

Originally Posted by korny

Basically it all boils down to human nature and the flaws associated with that, and each individuals means for justifying their behavior towards the different aspects within their relationship. I don't think it's fair for anyone to say that I “love” or respect someone less because we openly have sex with other people and are aware. Certain guidelines are set within your own relationship and it is between the couple to fully understand them.

I definitely agree. Each individual relationship will be much different than any other. That statement could be made about anything though. Each individual must find justification for all of their behavior in life. It is the same for behavior in a relationship.

Originally Posted by Blue Bird

No it's not right to hurt them, just because they hurt you. That's kiddy stuff. You see it in movies a lot, though. The person cheats ends up getting shot by their partner, or something. >_> It's hard to say what's going on in their mind, but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it's a selfish act.

And dude, if she wants to be happy and UNfaithful, that's fine with me. It's not like she's the only girl in the world. And sure I love her, but I'd rather be with someone who loves me back, enough to be happy AND faithful with me.

It does happen a lot, it is kind of sad. I guess getting cheated on is kind of sad too though. I would jump to that conclusion though, cause what act is NOT selfish?

I would rather be with someone that was happy AND faithful too, I was just saying given the choice... But we just can't always choose everything in life. I would like to be a millionaire rapping astronaut, but sadly my dream will never come true. Sometimes we just have to make the best out of what we do have I think.

[Lamoc]

well the leading cause of divorces is marriage.

That being said, no one should ever cheat or be "unfaithful" to anyone. There's no excuse either way. Even if your bf and gf or w/e you are. If you're with someone, that's saying you have a commitment and you are with that person. You can't be commited to someone while sleeping with someone else.

[MrRubix]

Originally Posted by richhhhhard

My question is, assuming that one marries for love, SHOULD you be upset about a spouse (or boyfriend or girlfriend) being unfaithful?

However, if you really love someone doesn't that mean that you always want them to be happy? If a physical connection, or the thrill and passion involved, makes that person happier, why would you want to keep them from that? Is there anything more than jealousy involved here?

I would say it all depends on the relationship. People often forget that there's no one right way to "have a relationship." It's entirely dependent upon the type of people involved and how they are compatible (or incompatible).

First off, it really depends on how you define cheating. I usually define it as either physical or emotional. Physical cheating = fooling around/kissing/having sex with someone else not in the relationship. Emotional cheating = Having stronger romantic feelings for someone else and sharing a greater level of emotional intimacy.

Now, you ask "shouldn't I always want them to be happy?" If I were in a relationship with a girl who felt that she would be happier with someone else, I'd rather she at least tell me so we could break up. She would be happier pursuing her own thing, and I would be able to find a greater level of happiness by finding someone who more closely shares my core views/values in relationships. For me to "condone" cheating as "something to make my partner happy" would make me unhappy because it would undermine the underlying intimacy in various aspects of the relationship, and that's something I wouldn't tolerate.

[Flaming_Dingleberry]

Cheating in relationships is worse than cheating on a test.

That's how I feel about it.

[Cavernio]

I wonder if people would be as hurt about people being unfaithful and cheating if polygamy were part of our culture.

[devonin]

I think that the majority of people who cheat on someone either don't actually love the person they cheated on, or don't actually love the person they cheated with.

Polygamy would address neither of those issues. If the person was married to both, say, such that it wasn't "cheating" I suspect they would just cheat on them both with someone else.

I suspect, though correct me if your experience contradicts this, that most people who cheat are not cheating because what they really wish they had was a serious romantic relationship with all parties involved.

[kommisar[os]]

psychologically, after being with a girl for sometime or depending on your attachment, you become used to her. used to having her for yourself. of course jealousy will ensue and create this sort of drama, but its nearly inevitable since we're posessive creatures by nature

[Frozen Beat]

Not quite, sometimes it goes from confusion to uncomfort to hate.

There are also some maniacs with willpower to go against being controlled by natural urges.

[Nyokou]

I know someone who has cheated on his wife more than once over the course of maybe 5 years and it's been 5 years since he last did it. I'm not entirely sure if his wife know, but I think she might cause she knows about his addiction to pornography, but they are still together. They have four children and they seem to be really happy together as a couple still, even though she jokes about divorcing him sometimes. However, I think she might get serious about it later on... but then again I don't think she wants to because she would definitely be alone. I know her husband also sincerely loves her. They've been together for 20 years now and he is really sensitive when it comes to being away from her almost all day because of work. I can't imagine how he would react if they got divorced and it would really suck for the kids too, but I definitely know they are not staying together just because of their children. He really loves her even though he cheated on her but she doesn't really love him in the same way.

Just thought I'd throw that into the conversation because I have a real different view on cheating. I guess to sum it up, I think some people just do it because of lust and not because they want to feel emotionally attached to someone else. Maybe it's because his wife is older and the women he was with were younger... Maybe he just wanted a way to relieve his lustful desires because his wife was always tired or never home or he wanted to try something different. I really can't explain it, and it bothers me.

[rqm]

Originally Posted by super kid

Girls with boyfriends, the ones i go for.

youre completely grimy and lack any sense of morality.

cheating is in my opinion one of the worst things you can do to your spouse or girl/boyfriend. i think its one of the worst things you could do period. a relationship, whether it be a childish high school deal or a serious commitment is just that - a commitment. if youre filthy and selfish enough to break that commitment than youre pretty low. ive never been cheated on, but ive heard from people who have that it hurts. cheating is basically telling the person that youre with that they arent good enough; that they arent satisfying. i try and avoid the type of people who would cheat.