My latest infatuation with logic.

[windsurfer-sp]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Except for the fact that the Bible says believing in God isn't good enough and that you need to do a hell of a lot more work to get into Heaven.

Ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins that are stopping you from entering heaven. Squeek, quote from the bible in context if you want to make a claim about the bible.

John 14:6 "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Originally Posted by Afrobean

It was evolved accidentally. It did not give us an evolutionary edge, but the increased intelligence that we developed led to it. I guess if you look at the big picture, our abstract understanding that evolved has given us an "evolutionary edge" (without it we never would have gotten society so far), but looking back at our ancestors who first started tipping toward more intelligent, their original basis of reasoned logic didn't directly help them. The original seeds of intelligence led them to use and create basic tools (the origin of technology), to interact in a group better (the origin of language). I'd figure that logic followed language some time later and simply was the natural order of us being curious about the nature of causality, the nature of the universe. Even animals show curiousity of things they are unsure of, we're just the only ones who try to discover, reason, and explain the causality behind it.

You haven't answered my point. If our logic only came from random mutations then it is no more reliable then a computer program wrote by closing your eyes and hitting the keyboard. Why should we trust anything we believe if our logic is just random nothingness.

Also is there not a point to be made that out of all our species we seem to be the only ones with any real sense of self awareness? Does a Gorilla see himself as I? I can see that we in many ways have evolved from apes or what have you, but there is something that just seems special. Or is there nothing that we can't explain through evolution?

Originally Posted by Afro

If what you believe is true, this life doesn't mean ****.

John 10:10 "The thief comes only to steal, slaughter, and destroy. I have come that they may have life, and have it abundantly."

Christianity would argue that your barely even living on this Earth until you are in relationship with God. Jesus came so that we could have an abundant life, why would we wish to leave quickly? Whats the rush to get to a party that wont end, if you want to use that analogy.

Originally Posted by MrRubix

However, as a living human right now, who is able to think, breathe, and experience emotion, I feel fear in the fact that time is short and our lifespans are unpredictable.

To me this feels like an argument you could make for us as human beings having a soul, having something eternal in us. The use of the word "I". Only you can call yourself "I", your "I" to me is just a "you". Can "I" really disappear, to me an "I" is eternal. Excuse the crap wording and thought process, but there is something to be thought about there. If someone wants to try and better what I was saying please do

Squeek, two things regarding point 3 of your post. Judging concepts through the people who try to convey them is like trying to judge a car through someone's description. Someone may know a Ferrari is a good car but they may not know how. They may not be able to explain how, but it dosn't mean its a bad car.

Secondly, I agree that trying to rationalize miracles through science or discounting them completely ruins the point of faith. But if you can believe that someone created the universe then it isn't much of a stretch to believe that he could alter the natural laws that the something created. That in no way proves Chrisitan miracles but it certainly helps start the process.

I guess the word prove does not mean physically show that xyz happened or how xyz happened, just demonstrate that its possible and likely given proper assumptions.