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Old 11-19-2008, 06:02 AM   #41
OrganisM
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Default Re: HDTV and YOU!

Have you been to CES? Have you been watching what's been happening? Prototypes for higher resolution TVs have been in the works for years now, and CES has been displaying them. 150 inches and more, as well. Higher res content, higher res screens, higher quality, and cheaper storage space. That's the way it's going. Just watch.

Being in the industry has its perks...

PS - and unless you write thousands and thousands of lines of code, you'll never need more than 640k, right?

and remember size of screen and viewing distance.

once more note: it really says something about a technology when one of its main proponents which manufactures blu-ray and is a major player in the industry says that the technology is half-dead already and will be practically obsolete by 2012. That would be Samsung.
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Originally Posted by jewpinthethird[link]:
"If you get stung by enough bees you turn into a bee,
because the venom gets into the blood stream which
spreads bee DNA throughout your entire body...
changing your genetic structure into a bee's.

Every year roughly 125 people in America are turned into bees this way."


Originally Posted by
MrRubix[link]:
"Do you basically bukkake-paint your walls every time you jack it?"

Originally Posted by All_That_Chaz[link]:
"My pity-sex depreciates at a rate of 5% annually."

Last edited by OrganisM; 11-19-2008 at 06:06 AM..
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:19 AM   #42
Vendetta21
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Default Re: HDTV and YOU!

The reason I am going to say no to this is because I think the blu-ray format will be shortlived, and I think that it is an intermediary format between DVD and flash-based memory devices.

There's a 27000p screen in Japan that is 62" and can display things at a quality where anything higher would be intdistinguishable to the human eye, and the only way to fit the space required for the movies is with hard-drives. But if they can continue to double the amount of space they can fit on an SD card every two years then they'll be able to do it with a flash-chip. And probably not as far off as one would think. I'm going to wait for a new format and higher resolutions first.
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:21 AM   #43
OrganisM
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Default Re: HDTV and YOU!

You're not alone in that thinking. It's wise to follow that reasoning: it's what all the top technology companies are talking about and what everybody in the industry is thinking.
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Originally Posted by jewpinthethird[link]:
"If you get stung by enough bees you turn into a bee,
because the venom gets into the blood stream which
spreads bee DNA throughout your entire body...
changing your genetic structure into a bee's.

Every year roughly 125 people in America are turned into bees this way."


Originally Posted by
MrRubix[link]:
"Do you basically bukkake-paint your walls every time you jack it?"

Originally Posted by All_That_Chaz[link]:
"My pity-sex depreciates at a rate of 5% annually."
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Old 11-19-2008, 10:51 AM   #44
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Default Re: HDTV and YOU!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganisM View Post
I know I'm going to regret getting into this, but here we go:

I call a blu-ray player "specialized equipment", mainly because it's equipment required specifically for the purpose of playing blu-ray discs. Getting less than a 42" is almost always a complete waste at 1080p. I have a 56" 1080p HDTV, and spend most of my time watching upscaled DVDs. Only at this level does the difference truly become remarkable.
I agree and disagree at the same time.

1080p at smaller sizes really doesn't do much at all. Even on my 42 inch screen, I have trouble definitively deciding the difference between an upscaled 720 and a native 1080.

But at the same time, you are wrong. Upscaled DVD looks terrible in many cases (often moreso due to being natively interlaced), and even the BEST of upconverted DVD does not even come close to native 1080p content. Even bad quality 1080p native commercial material will always look better than upconverted DVD. If you don't think so, you shouldn't be wasting your money on home theatre equipment because the part of your brain devoted to that sort of thing is clearly underdeveloped if you think an upconverted 480i image is as good as a 1080p native.

Quote:
I can now buy a 1TB HDD for just over $100. Just 6 months ago it would have cost $250. Things are getting cheaper fast.
So are BD players. My first player I got for a couple hundred, but a got a deal on a 200 dollar model as a gift that only cost me 100. Not typical deal, but the NORMAL prices are dropping under 200 now, and they'll be even lower after the holiday season.

Quote:
Download speeds are going to increase soon with the demand for on-demand content.
And yet, all I keep hearing about are ISPs putting bandwidth caps on so that people who use heftier bandwidth will end up paying for it in overages.

Quote:
And here's the kicker: when you download a movie, you don't need any specialized equipment to play it, since you already can use something like an HTPC for so many other things, and a PC will not ever become obsolete, at least during our lifetimes.
Some people might not want to attach their computer explicitly to their TV, and others might not have a spare computer lying around that they can use entirely for TV usage.

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You can make back-up copies. You can transfer it to another drive. With blu-ray, you're still bound to a proprietary format using physical copies.
This is a bad thing...? Why do people talk about using a physical medium like it is a fundamentally bad thing?

Quote:
Plus if blu-ray really did take off, I could just slap a $150 blu-ray drive in my system and I'd have a very powerful computer that could play blu-ray discs as well.
This is actually a very smart option, but I would probably only do this with a secondary computer to use as a media center and nothing else.

Also: Blu-ray IS taking off. It's adoption rate is faster than DVD's in it's first 2 years, it's surpassed Laserdisc's peak market penetration, it has complete support of the film industry, and the numbers are growing every day. I read an article the other day that gave a bunch of stats on the matter (and I can try to find it again if you care), but if I recall, they said something like Blu-ray accounts for 10~30% of the amount of copies sold of high profile films. Unless I'm mistaken, DVD was at like 2% in it's first few years.

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I love the clarity of HD, but I'm more interested in downloadable on-demand content and freedom from format restrictions. I'm tired of format wars and constraints, and see no reason why we should all sell our collective souls to Sony.
There will always be proprietary formats, it's just that a digital format is only precluded by software. In other words, a physical format war would require investment in an expensive player, but a digital format war would be entirely passable with software.

And anyway, the war is over, Blu-ray won. As a 1080p format, BD is what we have. What you're doing by refusing BD would be akin to getting mad when DVDs were replacing VHS and deciding to just get Satellite TV instead of changing to another superior format. That's not to say Satellite TV is bad (I frankly think it's quite good), but it wasn't the best choice at the time to do what you would want to do; presumably to watch movies at the highest quality.

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PS - I play games in 1080p, and it's not even half as amazing as people peg it to be. As powerful as consoles are, they can't compare with what my PC can do in terms of level of detail.
Most games aren't 1080p native, and the ones that are, I doubt those are the ones you game exclusively on. It's mostly stupid **** like movie tie-ins and terrible sports games.

Quote:
You're really not making a case for HD. Obviously we're going to have bigger HDDs, more powerful CPUs and GPUs, higher resolutions, and bigger screens. 1080p isn't even that high of a resolution. In a few years, 1080p will be on the low end.
1080p is already the upper end of the human sight limit on screens smaller than like 10 diagonal feet. It'll be a long time before we all have Imax size screens inside of our house.

Quote:
Spend a few hours at CES (or 20, like I did) and you'll have a good idea of things. 1080p is not the be-all and end-all of anything. It's just another step on the ladder, and soon enough we'll be talking about gaming and movie-watching 2560x1600 as a standard res.
1080p compared to 720p is a hard enough sell, how do you expect anyone not building an expensive home theatre to invest in a screen just to put out even more pixels when it wouldn't look ANY different to the naked eye from a reasonable viewing distance?

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And we'll be taking 20 megapixel shots and storing them on our 100gb SD cards and then our 5TB HDDs. And then years after that, we'll have bigger, shinier, and prettier things to move on to. Nobody gives a flying mother**** about Sony and their stupid ****ing format.
Oh, I see. You're not a misguided individual. You're a Sony hater. What would you be saying to me right now if it was HD-DVD that won the format war and it was HD-DVD I was gushing about? In fact, replace every instance of "BD" and "Blu-ray" with "HD-DVD" and see if you still disagree so heartily with all that I've said.

You make me sick. Get the **** out of here. You know why I support BD? Because it is the better format; there is not a consumer grade format better than it, and that includes considering digital distribution. I downloaded a 1080p trailer for the new Harry Potter flick the other day. Over 20 minutes to download, and the actual file is only a little under 2 minutes. You call that **** a good, reasonable alternative?

No, we do not have 2k films stored on holographic video discs. No, 2k resolution screens would not be worth it at the screen size I can afford. No, the producer cannot afford to give quality 1080p content through DD, and the typical consumer cannot afford it either.

Seriously talking about these CRAZY resolutions is akin to me telling a person they need to invest in a 15 inch 1080p screen. Why? An image on that small of a screen would be indistinguishable from 720p. So why then should I want a 2k res screen at 42 inches when I have a hard-ass time telling the difference between upscaled 720p and 1080p?

You are ****ing crazy, dude. "OH IM THE INDUSTRY SO I KNOW LOL". No. The typical consumer will not get behind a product that is technically better, but physically indistinguishable from what they have. The reason HD can take SD's market is because the average consumer can get a notable improvement in quality by getting a HDTV, even those who opt for a cheaper 720 model. Just because they CAN make a 2k res TV and charge 10k for a 20 inch TV doesn't mean anyone will buy it. That sort of resolution won't be of any use to the typical consumer. I'd bet that such a format will be made available at some point, both in hardware and software, but when that software format hits, it will be limited to niche... The average person can't tell the difference between 720 upscaled on a 1080 screen, why would they be able to tell the difference between a 1080 and 2k on a 2k screen?

Squeek is right. Beyond HDTV, the next step is greater immersion, not more resolution. You'll be able to get people to adapt to a new format only if it is better than what they already have... more pixels won't do it, but a 3D image "floating" out in front of the TV would.
______________

Quote:
Originally Posted by sqk
First is to change the human sight limitation by physically augmenting human vision. Don't expect to see this anytime soon.
I wouldn't be so sure. As far as modifications to the brain, I think this would be the first ones we'd be able to crack well. I saw on Ripley's Believe it or Not like 5 years ago they had a blind guy, and what they did is they managed to feed a basic image directly into his brain. It wasn't super color-sensitive high res, but he was able to see things through a camera that fed directly into his brain.

Frankly, I'd love to live to the day when Matrix-esque brain manipulation is possible, but that's a long ways off. I don't think we're so far off from basic steps in that direction though.

Quote:
And then you have to consider holographic television as well. And interactive television.
I really hope they don't force interactive television down our throats. When I want to see a movie, I don't want to interact with it. I don't want the movie to pause and it to say "What should Calculon do next?"

EDIT: since some of you folks seem pretty on the ball here, I've got a question that I'm struggling with. I picked up the seventh season of Scrubs the other day. And the picture quality is really hit or miss... Some times there are ABSOLUTELY none of that pixel dancing that happens in an interlaced display, while others, everything is movin' around like crazy. It's especially noticeable in the freezeframe credits compared to live action motion. In addition, on like half of the cuts (as in, edit cuts), it seems to cut RIGHT on the frame where two fields are added together and look ****ed up.

Honestly, if I had to guess, it seems like the image is progressive sourced, and automatically interlaced before reaching my screen. But-- I'm running it on my BD player over a HDMI, so it can't be that the disc is progressive native and interlaced in my machine. This means that the only possible conclusion to draw is that the image is definitely interlaced on the disc, but then why? Why did ABC take a progressive cut and apply an automatic interlacing on it without considering cuts? Or could it possibly be that the editors on that season just don't know how to do their jobs and the original version of the cuts were all made at interlaced points?

I just don't get it. Do any of you have any insight?
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Last edited by Afrobean; 11-19-2008 at 10:58 AM..
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Old 11-19-2008, 11:50 AM   #45
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Default Re: HDTV and YOU!

I'm glad that this thread finally got some attention because at first Afrobean had posted this whole big thing and it had hardly any responses. I kind of felt bad.
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:31 PM   #46
OrganisM
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Default Re: HDTV and YOU!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Afrobean View Post
Oh, I see. You're not a misguided individual. You're a Sony hater.
Actually, I own quite a bit of equipment that is manufactured by Sony totaling tens of thousands of dollars. You're a pretentious little ****** with little knowledge of the industry beyond what wikipedia and your RSS feeds tell you, and armed with your pseudo-fact you think you know the path to all right and good.

If you think I'm full of shit, watch the way the industry goes. If I'm still around here in two years, we'll have notes to compare.

I am involved with all sorts of technology, from hardware and software to the most important thing: content distribution of all kinds. All the industry showings I've seen are leaning toward having digital distribution, with physical copies as a secondary format hardly as useful. All the content providers for all types of media are most interested in on-demand content. And, to add to that, all the manufacturers that are not named Sony (but they're still doing it too), such as Panasonic, Samsung, LG, and others, are integrating network capabilities into their TVs for the on-demand stuff. Even many companies that produce DVDs are including a digital copy for download.

I will laugh when the on-demand explosion occurs. We're headed there, whether you like it or not.

Oh and Samsung blu-ray players now have integrated Netflix support. That sounds like a bridge to all-digital distribution to me.

Quote:
I just don't get it. Do any of you have any insight?
You really don't get it. Spend 30 fucking seconds at CES and tell me how wrong I am.
__________________
.

Originally Posted by jewpinthethird[link]:
"If you get stung by enough bees you turn into a bee,
because the venom gets into the blood stream which
spreads bee DNA throughout your entire body...
changing your genetic structure into a bee's.

Every year roughly 125 people in America are turned into bees this way."


Originally Posted by
MrRubix[link]:
"Do you basically bukkake-paint your walls every time you jack it?"

Originally Posted by All_That_Chaz[link]:
"My pity-sex depreciates at a rate of 5% annually."

Last edited by OrganisM; 11-19-2008 at 07:42 PM..
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:11 AM   #47
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Default Re: HDTV and YOU!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganisM View Post
Actually, I own quite a bit of equipment that is manufactured by Sony totaling tens of thousands of dollars.
Tons of people begrudgingly own Sony products even knowing they're terrible. But the simple fact that you brought up Sony as far as Blu-ray is related shows that your hatred of them in this case is unjustified. They are the folks behind the format, not the manufacturer of the hardware or even necessarily the software.

Quote:
You're a pretentious little ******
lol

Quote:
with little knowledge of the industry beyond what wikipedia and your RSS feeds tell you
You're right to a degree. I'm not an industry insider (and you are at 19? I'd love to hear the story there), but I do know what people want. People want quality and people want physical. I saw an article the other day that had a graph of survey data and it indicated that roughly 50% of people surveyed would prefer a physical medium to purely digital. There was a group of undecideds, and I believe those who would actively prefer digital was around 30%. I can go hunt for the article if you'd like, I'm sure that I can find it again once I get home from work.

Incidentally, no, I don't use RSS feeds. There are a couple news sites I check out to keep up to date (note: site, not RSS feed), but they don't report on HDTV or even Blu-ray all that often because it's generally outside their scope. Nice try though.

Quote:
and armed with your pseudo-fact you think you know the path to all right and good.
Can you define pseudo-fact? Would that be things like the fact that Blu-ray is faster adopted than DVD? That the market penetration of BD is higher than LD at its peak? That more people are adopting HD every day? That people prefer physical medium? That HD isn't as expensive as many people think? That it is not functionally realistic to stream Blu-ray quality 1080p either across the Internet or even across typical television reception methods? That ISPs are putting caps on bandwidth in place that if adopted across the board would make downloading high quality movie files over the Internet impossible or extremely expensive, download rates not considered?

Quote:
If you think I'm full of ****, watch the way the industry goes. If I'm still around here in two years, we'll have notes to compare.
I can already tell how things will be.

It'll work out like the music industry. There will be digital distribution that many people will use, but it will not kill physical media. People will still buy physical and because people still buy it, the companies will still make it, even once we're to the point where DD is able to get on the same level as BD in terms of quality and ease of use.

Quote:
I am involved with all sorts of technology, from hardware and software to the most important thing: content distribution of all kinds. All the industry showings I've seen are leaning toward having digital distribution, with physical copies as a secondary format hardly as useful.
Tell that to the people who still buy CDs when they could just as easily go to iTunes.

Furthermore notice that it doesn't matter what the industry wants to do if people aren't buying it.

Quote:
All the content providers for all types of media are most interested in on-demand content. And, to add to that, all the manufacturers that are not named Sony (but they're still doing it too), such as Panasonic, Samsung, LG, and others, are integrating network capabilities into their TVs for the on-demand stuff. Even many companies that produce DVDs are including a digital copy for download.
Is anyone arguing that DD doesn't exist or that it never will? Of course it will. I'm just saying that it won't be able to do what DVD or BD can.

Physically exist.

Quote:
I will laugh when the on-demand explosion occurs. We're headed there, whether you like it or not.
That's dandy, but I'll be buying my movies on a physical format regardless. Actually, DD of TV shows would probably be pretty nice though... never was much of a fan of the multi-disc box sets.

Quote:
Oh and Samsung blu-ray players now have integrated Netflix support. That sounds like a bridge to all-digital distribution to me.
Side-support for such a thing is an amenity. You're talking about DD like it will destroy all other methods of distribution. Look at every other medium "on the chopping block" of digital distribution. People still buy books, people still buy CDs, people still buy games. Yes, they also buy digital books, mp3s, and downloaded games, but that doesn't mean that the physical form doesn't still exist and still carry its weight in their respective industries.

Quote:
You really don't get it. Spend 30 ****ing seconds at CES and tell me how wrong I am.
If you're going to troll me, I'd appreciate if you put a little more effort in it. I'm quite sure that spending "30 ****ing seconds at CES" would not tell me why my DVD of Scrubs has a lot of its cuts placed where the frame is composed of one field before the cut and one field after the cut.

ps I'm not being a jackass, I really want to hear the story on how a 19 year old person such as yourself could be as deep in the industry as to make you feel entitled to talk the way you do.

pps one more thing: notice that this topic is actually supposed to be about HD and how it's better than you might think. BD is a component of HD, but only so far as to say that quality 1080p content isn't even available in any other form. Regardless of my personal feelings toward BD/DD or the future of said interaction, the point of this thread is to point out that HD is good and people should be interested in it.
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