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#21 | |
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Seriously I talked about all of this back and forth, up and down in my original argument. If you're going to try to argue against me we shouldn't be trying to make the same point.
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#22 | |
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#23 | |
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Admiral in the Red Army
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A bicyclist doing 20 MPH slower than all others has an effect on any driver that comes across them, whether it be as simple as merely requiring additional alertness, or if the driver has to change lanes to pass them (to say nothing of roads with only one lane going each way). This is especially notable in the case of a careless bicyclist, but then again, I'd say pretty much any bicyclist on a road with motor vehicles is at least a little careless for choosing such a dangerous method.
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#24 | |
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#25 | |
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Admiral in the Red Army
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If there was a world without bicycles would roads exist? Would they be the same as they are now? Conversely, if there was a world without cars would roads exist? Would they be the same as they are now? Think about it. The world is for motorists, bicyclists are just living in it. And the minority with special requirements shouldn't be allowed to force unreasonable rules on others. But then again, I suppose that's my own stance on the matter and not necessarily the stance of all; just look at all the wacky laws that exist for handicap folks... some of them are fine and dandy but others aren't as reasonable. And an accident involving a car is potentially fatal even at relatively low speeds. The folks in the car have higher survivability at these lower speeds, but pedestrians and such getting hit by these "low speed" collisions... they're still getting pounded by forces far outstretching anything they could impart on themselves, even if the car is doing "only" 25 MPH. Are you really suggesting that a bicyclist hitting a pedestrian isn't a better choice than a motorist hitting a bicyclist?
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#26 |
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sunshine and rainbows
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 38
Posts: 1,987
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I like the taxation idea mentioned, at least in its fairness towards how it would tax. I don't currently feel like I'm being taxed unfairly though, and I'm not really one to care greatly about that.
My only motorized accident on a bicycle was when I was, guess what, on a sidewalk. I did not like driving on that particular road I was on because it was too busy for my liking, without a large enough shoulder. Someone was coming out of a parking lot for the mall and didn't see me on the sidewalk. They hit me and I rolled on the front of the car because I couldn't stop in time. I've almost hit cyclists on the sidewalk, in the exact same way that I was hit, while driving a car because I had to drive over the sidewalk in order to see the traffic. When I'm on a bike, I feel safer on the road than on the sidewalk, because drivers pay attention to what's on the road, but not what's on the sidewalk. As an aside, I don't bike anywhere these days because every single one of my bikes, no matter how ****ty they are, have been stolen. I feel like parking a bike anywhere on the street is basically like asking someone else to take it. And these aren't high crime cities I'm talking about either. |
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#27 | |
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sunshine and rainbows
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 38
Posts: 1,987
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Sry about the double post.
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The cyclist on the road puts themselves in danger, that's the difference. There is, IMO, very little weight to arguments which say that they put others in danger too, like that they might cause 2 other cars to collide trying to avoid the cyclist. |
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#28 |
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FFR Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 481
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I absolutely despise urban cyclists.
They act like they own the road although they are dealing with powerful electrical moving vehicles that are capable of killing human beings in a moment. But they do dumbass things all the time that are just asking for them to get run over. Although unrelated to the whole driving with cars thing, one time I was walking with my friend and a biker ran into his leg. It was more of just a scrape, but my friend was bleeding and it was a pretty long wound. It wasn't deep, but the guy didn't even stop and come back. I'm sorry if this offends anyone here, and I'm sure there are bicyclers who are smart (though I've never seen one), but I wish they would get off the road, and if I hear on the news that one dies in an accident from a car, I'll just assume it's the cycler's fault. |
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#29 | |
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Admiral in the Red Army
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So yes, getting rid of things that hurt the environment is a good idea, but the method of doing so isn't "stop driving cars and ride bikes instead". The solution is "make cars not spew terrible **** into the atmosphere". And they're working on that. They're transitioning into cars that use less gasoline, and with time, cars will be able to fully powered by electricity or potentially even hydrogen. They get an effective hydrogen solution and even freight transport can be running on a clean fuel, even across distances that electricity can't feasibly carry.
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#30 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Belgium
Age: 32
Posts: 306
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You people should come to Europe lol. In nearly every big city in the Low Countries, bikes are the best way for transportation. Riding to various places is superior to using a car in nearly every way possible.
It's your fault that initially you didn't give enough attention to bikes in the first place. If you had you wouldn't be complaining about infrastructure problems now. (by 'your' I mean America ) |
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#31 | |
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In America we used modernized infrastructure and urban layouts to allow for more transport. In the older east coast cities we've adapted our old European style paths to fit the automobile (to varying results) and in west coast and midwest cities they were actually designed around the car. Namely because when those cities were being built no one could imagine the negative impacts vehicles would have on our environment and the dependent relationship they put the US in with foreign oil. |
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#32 |
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Instead of creating bike paths, how about fixing up and widening sidewalks to make them good for bike riders? Cars are just so much more efficient than bikes in every single way save environmental harm, and cities really need as much road space as possible. Data from Houston, Texas shows that the more roads that are build, the less congestion there is; when they stopped building that many roads, congestion increased.
Cavernio's claim that America's dependence on cars is "pretty sad" is not well thought out. Cars are faster, go farther distances, transport more people and luggage, and are less physically exhausting than bikes. Perhaps his views as an environmentalist is skewing his opinion on what is otherwise a no-brainer: cars are better. Lock it up.
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last.fm Last edited by lord_carbo; 09-30-2008 at 02:29 PM.. |
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#33 | ||
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FFR Player
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Fountain Of Youth, Florida
Posts: 574
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#34 | |
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Very Grave Indeed
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#35 | |
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One time, a friend of mine was walking and a motorist ran into his upper torso. The guy didn't even stop and come back. He died, by the way. No offense to anyone here, but if someone gets into a car accident, I'll just assume it was the drivers fault. |
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#36 | |
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Admiral in the Red Army
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Except that people in cars are more important than people on bicycles. Productivity that drives the infrastructure of the world is directly related to how effectively people can move themselves and cargo large distances. Basically, both sides have ticks against them and are equally unworthy of the roads, but the world only relies on one of them to keep spinning.
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#37 | |
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Old-School Player
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Your logic is faulty. Bikes have just as much of a valid place in our transit system as do cars. Perhaps if less people on cars treated all bikers like pricks then we could all just get along. We follow the same traffic laws that you do, and we have a legal right to the road. Can't we all just get along? |
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#38 | |
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Admiral in the Red Army
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Imagine that tomorrow you wake up all cars in the world have vanished. How would the world be different? Now imagine that tomorrow you wake up and all bicycles in the world have vanished. How would the world be different? Seriously consider these questions, then tell me again that bicyclists are as important as motorists. EDIT: by the way, I just realized the problem with what you said. You basically said "You're wrong," and didn't use any supportive evidence. I have the basic fact that the world only functions thanks to motor vehicles. Where is your supportive evidence stating that bicycles are so important that they deserve massive upheaval of the status quo?
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Last edited by Afrobean; 09-30-2008 at 09:24 PM.. |
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#39 | |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 151
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#40 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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