Final Fantasy?

[Relambrien]

Originally Posted by ShAiOnEi

I honestly disagree with that post reason being that the characters seem far more down to earth in the series rather than tales series. Final Fantasy X in my opinion is the greatest final fantasy because of the story in general and the ability to level up your character in a very unique way. I don't know but the ability to get stronger with your sphere grid and then able later in the game unlock other characters sphere grids to become even MORE stronger seems quite intriguing rather than grinding through levels.

Luke, from Tales of the Abyss, was probably the most down-to-earth, realistic character in any RPG I have played. Or I could be misremembering, but I doubt it.

Though I do agree, Final Fantasy X's level system was fantastic. You had the choice about what you wanted each character to learn next. Need Tidus to do some debuffs? Send him to learn the "Break" skills. Want to abuse One MP Cost on Yuna's Nirvana? Go to Lulu's black magic route and rape the crap out of enemies. Not to mention the Clear Sphere leveling trick, as time-consuming as that was.

[Kinspin]

FFX had a pretty cool level up system, but the story didn't appeal to me that much.

[Squeek]

Oh no squeek has only played one final fantasy game and he didn't even finish it

First impressions are lasting. I've seen the Retrospective on Final Fantasy and they all look exactly the same.

I was thinking about playing FF6 since you all rave about it but I've since decided to play real RPGs instead.

Relambrien mentions Luke. I was actually talking about Guy, but Luke is much more realistic. I haven't played many RPGs but I have yet to see a character actually unwilling to kill an opponent. In most games they'll maybe make a slight mention that "they only fainted" or something lame like that. In this game, it's "kill or be killed" and thirty minutes of gameplay and cutscenes where the main character refuses to kill a human being.

Dramatic situations with situations we can't even possibly imagine are littered throughout the game. I played Final Fantasy X for 20 hours and all I saw was "protect Yuna." That's boring. There's not even a sense of "save the world" in Tales games for about half of the game. This is especially true in Abyss, where you wonder if you're ever going to get to that point for the first thirty hours of gameplay.

Not only all of that, but I haven't seen a character grow in an RPG quite like Luke does. I don't think Tidus grows at all. I think he starts with a sword for no explainable reason other than that everyone in the future carries a sword. He comes across some girl and decides she's cool so follows her around.

Also the combat system sucks across the board. I have yet to see a worthwhile final fantasy combat system. Play any Tales game and you will know what I mean.

Here's one good reason why Tales is amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXGA-fmrQ7Q

Final Fantasy is so far out of the Tales series' league.

[virus003]

Oh, Definetly play FF7!! BEST FF GAME EVER!!!

[tuv]

Originally Posted by Xx{Midday}xX

I'm sorry. You don't play the game enough then.

For example:

Tales of Phantasia takes place on a separate planet before Tales of Symphonia. In a book in a certain library of Phantasia, it states that Tethealla and Sylvarant were distant moons on the verge of collision. Symphonia takes place after Kharma causes these moons to overlap, becoming parallel worlds.

Let's enjoy the game thoroughly before talking about them.

If you go to libraries and read, or talk to certain people, they will mention familiar names.

Wikipedia has some information about the relationship between Phantasia and Symphonia, but there are many more connections between various games.

Also, grammar/spelling.

There is a reason why Destiny has a Destiny 2.

EDIT: What is a wRPG? Really.

I do know about the library, but the story's are hardly connected at all you could play ToS and not play ToP and not miss much, maybe a few easter eggs but that's it, and the reason tales of destiny 2 is called tales of destiny 2 is because etenia was trademarked in america, also tales of destiny was the first tales game to come out in america and they also made ToE into ToD2 because they thought more people would buy it if they thought it was a sequel, and actually there is a true sequel to ToD but it was realesed only in japan as tales of destiny 2. So the tales of destiny 2 in japan and america are completly different games.(sorry if this is confusing) have you even played both tales of destiny's they are completly different!

P.S I have all the english Tales games ever released including the tales of eternia for the PSP all the way from france!

[Relambrien]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Oh no squeek has only played one final fantasy game and he didn't even finish it

First impressions are lasting. I've seen the Retrospective on Final Fantasy and they all look exactly the same.

Well, Final Fantasy has pretty much become the standard JRPG. Square found a formula that works, and has stuck with it for 12 iterations (yeah yeah, XI was an MMO, but you get the idea). Honestly, if the games were all titled differently, you wouldn't really know they were related. Same general type of battle system (either turn-based or active-time, but screw XII's battle system, it sucks), but then again, most JRPGs are like that. See: Suikoden.

I would recommend you try VI or IX to see how they compare to X; both could be found for extremely cheap (or with another method, for even less), and wouldn't require much of an investment. I can say that this "second chance" thing has rewarded me. My first Suikoden was Suikoden IV, which was terrible. But then I played Suikoden V on a whim and was pleasantly surprised, even though silent protagonists make me want to throw a chair at the TV.

But honestly, if the battle system is your biggest issue with Final Fantasy, don't bother. They're all essentially the same.

[tsugomaru]

You probably wouldn't like FFVI anyways because you hate things that people recommend you.

Good character growth is hard to find anywhere in a Japanese game. Unlike American culture where a character tends to come to a realization of some sort by the end of the story, Japanese characters don't really come to any realization by the end of the story but rather improve on the skills they already have.

EDIT: One of the few exceptions are the characters in The World Ends with You. But in my opinion, it just wasn't very realistic. Neku just went from hating the world to loving everything and anything in it. A more realistic change in character probably would have been accepting that some people can be okay. However, the other three characters' growth made some sense.

~Tsugomaru

[zidart]

Originally Posted by tsugomaru

You probably wouldn't like FFVI anyways because you hate things that people recommend you.

Good character growth is hard to find anywhere in a Japanese game. Unlike American culture where a character tends to come to a realization of some sort by the end of the story, Japanese characters don't really come to any realization by the end of the story but rather improve on the skills they already have.

EDIT: One of the few exceptions are the characters in The World Ends with You. But in my opinion, it just wasn't very realistic. Neku just went from hating the world to loving everything and anything in it. A more realistic change in character probably would have been accepting that some people can be okay. However, the other three characters' growth made some sense.

~Tsugomaru

well neku had lost his memory so it kinda makes sense that when he remembered his favorite motto he became a world loving person.

[tsugomaru]

He wasn't a loving person before he lost his memories. He became a loving person through realizing his friends aren't always completely against him. Just because he was excited when he remembered his "motto" doesn't mean it completely changed his views on everything.

~Tsugomaru

[zidart]

Originally Posted by tsugomaru

He wasn't a loving person before he lost his memories. He became a loving person through realizing his friends aren't always completely against him. Just because he was excited when he remembered his "motto" doesn't mean it completely changed his views on everything.

~Tsugomaru

well that's true but his motto was the point where you could see he started changing, and Mr Hanekoma just improved that, by making the "the world ends with you stuff" is more like an excuse why he realized that his friends aren't against him, so in a way you are right but it doesn't mean CAT didn't influence him at all.

[Homicidal Cherry]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Japanese Role-Playing Games tend to be Japanese.

Western Role-Playing Games tend to suck.

They're a completely different genre. JRPGs are story-driven epic adventures. WRPGs are mindless hack-and-slash time-wasters.

The emboldened shows a total and complete lack of understanding when it comes to the genre. Not all WRPG's are Titan Quest-esq click-fests. In fact, I would say the majority aren't. They too are frequently story driven epics, except it is the PC who drives the story, not set cut-scenes. Rather than being forced upon a linear story, as in JRPG's, however, you are given choices. They can be a select number of choices, as in something like Mass Effect or The Witcher, or they can be almost infinite in a game like Oblivion (which fits your definition better than most WRPG's, though I would hardly call it a time-waster). As with JRPG's, not all WRPG's have brilliant stories (some aren't meant to), but many many do. Mass Effect was easily the best science fiction story in any media (be it movies, books, video games, or TV) in the last five years. If the story of The Witcher doesn't suck you in (can't see why it wouldn't), the incredibly grey moral choices that will have you questioning your sense of right and wrong will. Go back in time a bit, and you will find Kotor, which contained the best Star Wars story outside of Empire. Go back a bit further, and you will find Planescape: Torment, which was one of the most character and story driven games ever made (literally, conversations frequently moved the game forward more than the "mindless hacking and slashing" that you feel to be the meat of most WRPG's).

I am willing to admit that some WRPG's have weak stories and focus more on combat than anything, but there are many many others that have stories that easily equal or surpass those of JRPG's.

[tsugomaru]

I haven't played The World Ends with You for months now and if I remember correctly, the change started at the end of week 1 when Shiki decides to reveal her price to play the game. I saw Neku's "motto" more as the underlying theme behind the entire story and it wasn't until close to the end of week 2 do we even hear about it.

~Tsugomaru

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by Homicidal Cherry

The emboldened shows a total and complete lack of understanding when it comes to the genre. Not all WRPG's are Titan Quest-esq click-fests. In fact, I would say the majority aren't. They too are frequently story driven epics, except it is the PC who drives the story, not set cut-scenes. Rather than being forced upon a linear story, as in JRPG's, however, you are given choices. They can be a select number of choices, as in something like Mass Effect or The Witcher, or they can be almost infinite in a game like Oblivion (which fits your definition better than most WRPG's, though I would hardly call it a time-waster). As with JRPG's, not all WRPG's have brilliant stories (some aren't meant to), but many many do. Mass Effect was easily the best science fiction story in any media (be it movies, books, video games, or TV) in the last five years. If the story of The Witcher doesn't suck you in (can't see why it wouldn't), the incredibly grey moral choices that will have you questioning your sense of right and wrong will. Go back in time a bit, and you will find Kotor, which contained the best Star Wars story outside of Empire. Go back a bit further, and you will find Planescape: Torment, which was one of the most character and story driven games ever made (literally, conversations frequently moved the game forward more than the "mindless hacking and slashing" that you feel to be the meat of most WRPG's).

I am willing to admit that some WRPG's have weak stories and focus more on combat than anything, but there are many many others that have stories that easily equal or surpass those of JRPG's.

I didn't say there weren't any story-driven games. I implied that WRPGs are more focused on killing things and JRPGs are more focused on story. You'll find examples that break the mold from both sides of the spectrum, but the over-arching standard remains that in the West, we like to kill baddies more than read about things and in the East, they prefer a narrative to endless enemy-slaughter.

Also, you probably assume I don't like WRPGs. I love them. I've probably put more time into Dark Alliance 2 than I have any other game.

Finally, The Witcher? Boring as hell. KOTOR was okay. One plot twist at the end doesn't do it for me though. Also, I hate Star Wars to begin with. KOTOR II was horrible and left a black mark on the series for me. Oblivion was fantastic, but Morrowind was better.

My ideal WRPG is a game like Dungeon Siege or Champions of Norrath. I can't even tell you the story in these games and I've beaten them multiple times. But they were really, really awesome games.

[Shashakiro]

Originally Posted by tsugomaru

You probably wouldn't like FFVI anyways because you hate things that people recommend you.

Moogy screamed about how good TotA was until Squeek couldn't take it anymore and got the damn game, and now I'm pretty sure it's his all-time favorite RPG

my take on the FF games I've played (disclaimer: this is all my personal opinion and I do not claim that any of this is fact):

8: Enemies leveling up as you do = suck. GF's are overpowered to the point that they basically break the game, and I got to disc 4 doing nothing but GF spam every battle, including bosses. I played this years ago but back when I did the story was confusing and I didn't really enjoy it much. Eventually I stopped because I reached a boss where I couldn't GF-spam and didn't know what to do, although this was like 6 years ago. Basically gave up then. Junction system was poorly explained in-game and confusing. Battle system was all right, ATB is a terrible system that should never be used by any game but since you can just GF spam most of the game the battle system is basically irrelevant. Having to randomly pick one basic action to not be able to do is wtf stupid and not realistic at all. Characters have almost zero development (I don't remember ANYTHING about Irvine aside from what he looks like, for example). Fantastic soundtrack, on the plus side. Meh game to me overall, but it's ok I guess.

10: Quite a solid game, and my favorite of the four that I've played (and the only one that I saw through to the end). The leveling system is very unique and quite cool. The characters aren't very interesting, although Auron reminds me a lot of Kratos from ToS (Kratos AURION? Coincidence?). The battle system is good, mostly because it's not "active time" like the rest of these games. Overall it's a bit disappointingly easy, and no boss gave me even a little trouble till the final one (like, barely ever needed to use a Phoenix Down once trouble, not ****-I-might-actually-lose-trouble). The sidequests are pretty bad, though, and the soundtrack isn't as good as I'd hoped. Fun overall, though.

10-2: Otherwise known as Final Fantasy: Barbie edition. Dresspheres, what the ****? Stay awaaaaaaaay. I bought this because I liked 10 but holy crap ugh. Return of ATB, removal of sphere grid, basically everything I liked about FFX taken away. =(

12: At first I really liked this, but then woooooooooow it got boring. Still only like halfway through. The "real-time battle system" is a joke. What's worse is that some bosses have an ability called "Enrage" or something that lets them completely ignore the ATB bar and just slash away at you Tales style, which is so completely, mind-blowingly retarded that I almost quit after getting past the second boss I faced that did that. Gambits are a necessary function, but WTF @ having to COLLECT THEM? Why the **** should you have to collect things that simply automate actions you can do by yourself? Tales gets this right by just giving you all the AI options they've got immediately, which is what this game should have done, but nooooooo, you have to buy/earn/whatever the ability to get one of your characters to attack flying enemies or whatever without you telling them to explicitly. WTF. I quit around the time that I was told to go into yet another generic dungeon in order to obtain some sword that was apparently needed. Playing the game was starting to feel like a chore, and I wasn't really looking forward to continuing.

Both Tales games I've played (Symphonia + Abyss) outclass these by so much it's not even funny, unless you consider realistic graphics essential.

Also, SO3 is a terrible RPG. It has a good battle system and starts out ok and even continues pretty well for maybe 2/3 of the game, but then at around that point you get hit with two things: the most ridiculously terrible plot twist in the history of plot twists (think "omg you woke up and it was all a dream!" type of stupid), and the complete unbalancing of monster strengths to the point where some of the random battle enemies are harder than the bosses. At that point it was almost insultingly terrible and I struggled to even complete the game without quitting and replaying ToS/TotA again, although I did wind up doing so, miraculously. The ending itself was completely unsatisfying, just like the rest of the last third was pretty much.

If you need an RPG not on PS2, GET ToS NOW AND PLAY IT THROUGH IMMEDIATELY. I'd also recommend Morrowind, which is also excellent, although COMPLETELY different.

/opinion

[Netjet!]

Originally Posted by Shashakiro

Moogy screamed about how good TotA was until Squeek couldn't take it anymore and got the damn game, and now I'm pretty sure it's his all-time favorite RPG

hahaha give into peer pressure


ps hi squeek

[MrRubix]

It's hard to find a good RPG these days. I have yet to find the perfect one.

[tsugomaru]

The notion of a perfect RPG is dumb. I want them to get better and better as time goes on and never ever peak.

Making an RPG is like writing a book. There's never a perfect or right way to do it and you can always make changes to make it better.

~Tsugomaru

[MrRubix]

I'll rephrase: I have yet to find an RPG that has everything I look for in a good RPG. Different RPG's might have these elements in disjoint fashions, but I have yet to find one RPG that has *all of* these factors in one package.

[-Yukari-]

People who haven't played a particular game shouldn't be saying that particular game is or isn't good. That's just sad. If you've played it that's one thing, if you saw a screenshot of it then that doesn't count.

IMO FF6 and FF7 are the best, FF8 sucks big horse balls, FF9 sucks small horse balls, FF10 sucks a size of horse balls somewhere in between. Actually, I retract that statement, FF9 is worse. **** anything older lmfao.

I won't comment on FF11 and FF12 because guess what, I haven't played them. If I play them then I will comment. Commenting from ignorance is something I won't do, especially something like "Well FF8 sucked so come on guys the rest will suck."

[tsugomaru]

Then the simple answer here is to make a game with all your favorite elements from each RPG.

It was hard for me to create an RPG with all my favorite elements. One good aspect from one game made another good aspect from another totally pointless and in the end, my game ended up to be pretty boring.

EDIT: -Yukari-, gameplay elements like battle system should be in the clear because they are all pretty much the same thing. There will be a small variation from game to game but the core of it still remains the same within a franchise. The more precise details like story line and characters is a different case though because they are going to have to vary to some degree to make each game different from each other.

~Tsugomaru