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#221 | ||
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MCDC 2011
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You guys are going around in circles.
Guy 1: "An executioner or jury doesn't have the right to decide who lives or dies." Guy 2: "Nobody does!" Guy 3: "But how do we punish them?" Guy 4: "I don't know, but an executioner or jury shouldn't dictate life."
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#222 | |
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Very Grave Indeed
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#223 |
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TWG Veteran
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What it all comes down to is that the death penalty is the court's way of protecting people. They give police the right to kill, why? To protect people. They give citizens the right to perform a citizen's arrest, why? To protect people. They give the president the right to declare war, why? To protect people.
I mean, in the concept that the death penalty is simply vengeance, it's bad. But in the concept that the death penalty is set to protect more citizens than it hurts, its good. |
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#224 |
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Very Grave Indeed
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Except that you don't actually come close to proving that it protects anybody more than life in prison would.
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#225 |
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Again, with life in prison there's always the possibility of escape.
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#226 |
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Very Grave Indeed
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And with executions there's the possibility for killing an innocent person. So what?
At least with an escape, there is the chance to catch them before they commit another crime. Once you murder an innocent person wrongfully, you can't take it back. |
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#227 |
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So, either way there's the possibility of something bad happening. If they escape they may kill again. If they're executed they might have been innocent.
The question is, which is a worse risk? |
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#228 |
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Very Grave Indeed
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Killing an innocent person, hands down, bar none, absolutely no chance is the worst possible consequence of the legal and justice system.
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#229 | ||||
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FFR Player
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On the right to life, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states as below :
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Last edited by Konradz; 08-21-2008 at 01:09 PM.. |
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#230 | ||
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Old-School Player
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#231 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 32
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Ok, so the United Nations declared that everyone has the right to 'life, liberty and the security of persons.' So what? It's a nice statement but what is going to back it up? As it stands, it is a nice sentiment, but when you consider that the majority of nations that make up the UN are despots, or police states it ends up being pretty empty. Therefore, until there is a mechanism in place to punish people or states that remove these rights from others it is pointless and unenforcable. If there is no equitable punishment for murder that is carried out by some accepted institution, then our right to life is an illusion. That is why the death penalty must be an option at the very least, if only to back up the seriousness with which we consider the crime of murder.
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#232 |
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TWG Veteran
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Yes, devonin, but the escapee can kill many more than one innocent person.
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#233 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 33
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Never really posted before in the forums but rzr I TOTALLY agree with you on the death penalty if someone murders another person intentionally, they should get the death penalty and be punished in a way that is as bad as or nearly as bad as the murder they committed.
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#234 |
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FFR Veteran
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If this hasn't been posted yet: The Death Penalty should be a choice for the one getting the sentence. If they committed a crime that is deemed worthy of the Death Penalty, then they should be able to choose that or the sentence in jail that they would normally get.
Why anyone would choose the Death Penalty, who knows. I would, as I'd prefer that than life in jail. But that's just me. Other than making the Death Penalty a personal choice for the one deemed guilty, I doubt there is any other way of making the death penalty NOT optional that would settle politically and humanely. |
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#235 |
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FFR Simfile Author
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You're arguing that we should kill people based on your assertion that we aren't competent enough to keep them in jail. Allowing the death penalty strictly for that reason is ridiculous as you should be focusing on the real problem: apparently there's a significant enough probability that someone stuck in maximum security solitary confinement for the rest of their life could escape that we should kill them just as a precaution. Now that's saying something about our maximum security if you believe this to be the case.
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squirrel--it's whats for dinner. |
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#236 |
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Very Grave Indeed
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And if he does believe it to be the case, he had better have some pretty compelling statistics to back it up. I'd suggest something on the order of at least 1% of all people convicted of murder having to escape and murder again before he can try to suggest that this requires more application of the death penalty.
One or two exceptions every half dozen years is not nearly significant enough. More to the point, if we could compare the number of people convicted of capital crimes who've been later proven to be innocent to the number of people convicted of capital crimes who've later esacaped and continued killing, we could see which side is the more significant. And I know where I'm betting that falls. |
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#237 |
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TWG Veteran
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The stats have a point, too. The people support it.
![]() I found here, some stastitcs about the death penalty in Florida. In 2007, 128 inmate escaped from prisons in Florida. What would happen if all 128 of those esapees killed two people after escaping? We'd have 256 dead instead of 128. Or, more accurately, in Florida 06 1,129 people were murdered. 112 of the killers in jail escaped. |
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#238 | ||
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Very Grave Indeed
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So how many of the 128 people escaped who had already served their time and were on probation or out on parole? I imagine the larger number of escapes were people on parole and on probation since, you know, they aren't actually -stopped- from running away. You can't just present one number and expect us to go "Oh yes, how true." Quote:
Last edited by devonin; 09-9-2008 at 01:33 AM.. |
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#239 |
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Old-School Player
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http://www.protectthehuman.com/videos/hear-troy-davis
Damian from Amnesty UK sez, "Troy Davis is scheduled to be executed in Georgia at 7pm local time on 23 September. He has been on death row for 17 years for a murder he maintains he did not commit. His appeal for clemency was denied on 12 September. In March 2008, the Chief Justice of the Georgia Supreme Court, joined by two other Justices on the Court, wrote that: "In this case, nearly every witness who identified Davis as the shooter at trial has now disclaimed his or her ability to do so reliably. Three persons have stated that Sylvester Coles confessed to being the shooter. Two witnesses have stated that Sylvester Coles, contrary to his trial testimony, possessed a handgun immediately after the murder. Another witness has provided a description of the crimes that might indicate that Sylvester Coles was the shooter." |
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#240 |
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FFR Player
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Funny: initially when I read this I assumed that the debate would be centered around the idea that death is too good for some people. For example if a guy rapes a child he shouldn't receive the death penalty. That'd be too good for him. He autta be tortured every motherf*cking day.
Uh... Well I guess that didn't really contribute to the thread. Sorry, I just had to letcha guys know.
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“Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish... Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you.” Christopher Hitchens |
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