Go Back   Flash Flash Revolution: Community Forums > General Discussion > Critical Thinking
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

View Poll Results: Do you support the death penalty?
Yes 146 59.35%
No 100 40.65%
Voters: 246. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-8-2008, 07:37 AM   #221
tha Guardians
MCDC 2011
FFR Veteran
 
tha Guardians's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: location, location~
Age: 80
Posts: 1,681
Send a message via AIM to tha Guardians Send a message via MSN to tha Guardians Send a message via Yahoo to tha Guardians
Default Re: The Death Penalty

You guys are going around in circles.

Guy 1: "An executioner or jury doesn't have the right to decide who lives or dies."
Guy 2: "Nobody does!"
Guy 3: "But how do we punish them?"
Guy 4: "I don't know, but an executioner or jury shouldn't dictate life."
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonic-fast-fingers View Post
can someone clarrify what QFT means my friend told me its quit ****ing talking, but im not 100 percent sure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthlight
I need a car that drives itself completely automated and I want it for free and it needs infinite gas mileage.

Cheers,

Synthlight
tha Guardians is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-8-2008, 11:11 PM   #222
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 10,098
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: The Death Penalty

Quote:
Excuse me, but who or what decided that anyone has a right to life at all?
Explicit in demanding your own right to life is the need to respect that right in others, else why should they grant you yours?
devonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 02:58 AM   #223
rzr
TWG Veteran
 
rzr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ƲƝƌƐƦ ƮĦƐ ƧƐȺ
Age: 29
Posts: 7,608
Send a message via AIM to rzr Send a message via MSN to rzr Send a message via Yahoo to rzr Send a message via Skype™ to rzr
Default Re: The Death Penalty

What it all comes down to is that the death penalty is the court's way of protecting people. They give police the right to kill, why? To protect people. They give citizens the right to perform a citizen's arrest, why? To protect people. They give the president the right to declare war, why? To protect people.

I mean, in the concept that the death penalty is simply vengeance, it's bad. But in the concept that the death penalty is set to protect more citizens than it hurts, its good.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkshark View Post
Everyone sucks at this game. The second you think you're good is the second you stop trying to get better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aperson View Post
i had a mri the other day it was the best song i heard in years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprite-
More of a joke than the time I deleted all the credits on the site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace View Post
yeah my goldfish think im a riot they do this thing where they turn upside down and float to the top of the tank

i guess their alcohol tolerance isnt as high as mine
rzr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 03:10 AM   #224
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 10,098
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: The Death Penalty

Except that you don't actually come close to proving that it protects anybody more than life in prison would.
devonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 03:29 AM   #225
rzr
TWG Veteran
 
rzr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ƲƝƌƐƦ ƮĦƐ ƧƐȺ
Age: 29
Posts: 7,608
Send a message via AIM to rzr Send a message via MSN to rzr Send a message via Yahoo to rzr Send a message via Skype™ to rzr
Default Re: The Death Penalty

Again, with life in prison there's always the possibility of escape.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkshark View Post
Everyone sucks at this game. The second you think you're good is the second you stop trying to get better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aperson View Post
i had a mri the other day it was the best song i heard in years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprite-
More of a joke than the time I deleted all the credits on the site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace View Post
yeah my goldfish think im a riot they do this thing where they turn upside down and float to the top of the tank

i guess their alcohol tolerance isnt as high as mine
rzr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 03:29 AM   #226
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 10,098
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: The Death Penalty

And with executions there's the possibility for killing an innocent person. So what?

At least with an escape, there is the chance to catch them before they commit another crime. Once you murder an innocent person wrongfully, you can't take it back.
devonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 03:36 AM   #227
rzr
TWG Veteran
 
rzr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ƲƝƌƐƦ ƮĦƐ ƧƐȺ
Age: 29
Posts: 7,608
Send a message via AIM to rzr Send a message via MSN to rzr Send a message via Yahoo to rzr Send a message via Skype™ to rzr
Default Re: The Death Penalty

So, either way there's the possibility of something bad happening. If they escape they may kill again. If they're executed they might have been innocent.

The question is, which is a worse risk?
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkshark View Post
Everyone sucks at this game. The second you think you're good is the second you stop trying to get better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aperson View Post
i had a mri the other day it was the best song i heard in years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprite-
More of a joke than the time I deleted all the credits on the site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace View Post
yeah my goldfish think im a riot they do this thing where they turn upside down and float to the top of the tank

i guess their alcohol tolerance isnt as high as mine
rzr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 04:24 AM   #228
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 10,098
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: The Death Penalty

Killing an innocent person, hands down, bar none, absolutely no chance is the worst possible consequence of the legal and justice system.
devonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 01:05 PM   #229
Konradz
FFR Player
 
Konradz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: France
Age: 28
Posts: 67
Send a message via ICQ to Konradz Send a message via AIM to Konradz Send a message via MSN to Konradz Send a message via Yahoo to Konradz Send a message via Skype™ to Konradz
Default Re: The Death Penalty

On the right to life, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states as below :
Quote:
Article 3.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
Answering to
Quote:
Excuse me, but who or what decided that anyone has a right to life at all?
I think you can trust the declaration of human rights to be pretty fair.

Quote:
The United States government pays lip service to the Declaration, but its courts have consistently refused to enforce its provisions reasoning it is not a legally binding treaty, or contract, but only a declaration. This ignores the fact that international law recognizes the provisions of the Declaration as being incorporated into customary international law which is binding on all nations.
And I don't even understand how that makes sense. They agree with it but don't go by it just because they can legally go around it. Beautiful country.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon
Way to get rich:

1. wait until you are about 30-35 years of age
2. go up to a random 10 year old kid in the street
3. convince him that you are him from the future
4. mess with his head and make him do crazy things
5. film it
6. put it on the internet
7. lol
8. ????
9. PROFIT!
Praise M&T.

Last edited by Konradz; 08-21-2008 at 01:09 PM..
Konradz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2008, 11:58 AM   #230
Coolgamer
Old-School Player
FFR Veteran
 
Coolgamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Age: 33
Posts: 675
Send a message via AIM to Coolgamer Send a message via MSN to Coolgamer Send a message via Skype™ to Coolgamer
Default Re: The Death Penalty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolgamer View Post
Never. Too many innocent people have died as a result of the death penalty. Here's something for you to think about... 81% of the world's executions in 2002 took place in just three countries: China, Iran, and the USA. While he was still running for his first presidential term, George W. Bush said he felt capital punishment "sends a chilling message that there is a consequence to your actions". In the same speech he spoke of the "sacredness of human life". Since 1990, the USA has executed more prisoners who were under the age of eighteen at the time of the crime then any other country in the world.

In 80% of executions since 1977, the original murder victims were white.
A report by Amnesty International lists 50 cases where African-Americans were convicted by all-white juries, each one showing a pattern of black juror exclusion by government prosecutors.

At the the 1985 execution of James Raulerson, convicted of killing a police officer, more then 70 police attended, some wearing T-shirts reading "Crank up old Sparky". They celebrated with champagne and applause outside the prison.

A volunteer witness at the 2000 execution of Steve Roach said it was her third time, and that she kept volunteering because she found them "interesting". Another witness reportedly came to watch Roach die as a way of avenging the killing of her own son- for which no one had ever been convicted.

Napoleon Beazley, who was 17 at the time of his crime, in which he killed a man during a car jacking, an act he admitted to, had no prior arrests and was president of his senior class. He was sentenced to death by an all-white jury. Before his execution , he declared: "The act I committed to put me here was not just heinous, it was senseless. Tonight, we declare to the world that justice does not allow for a second chance... tonight, we tell our children that in some instances, killing is right."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolgamer View Post
Bush remarks, 'Bush Defends Executions', CBSNews.com, 26 May 2000.

Napoleon Beazley's last statement, Texas Department of Criminal Justice, http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/bea...poleonlast.htm

'Napoleon's Last Stand', Texas Monthly magazine, July 2002.

Amnesty International, 'Facts and Figures on the Death Penalty', web.amnesty.org/pages/deathpenalty_facts_eng

web.amnesty.org/library/print/engamr510032002


Totally off topic, here's the best last words from death row inmates, with sources:

Yes sir, I charge the people of the jury. Trial Judge, the Prosecutor that cheated to get this conviction. I charge each and every one of you with the murder of an innocent man. All the way to the CCA, Federal Court, 5th Circuit and Supreme Court. You will answer to your Maker when God has found out that you executed an innocent man. May God have mercy on you.

My love to my son, my daughter, Nancy, Kathy, Randy, and my future grandchildren. I ask for forgiveness for all of the poison that I brought into the US, the country I love. Please forgive me for my sins. If my murder makes it easier for everyone else let the forgiveness please be a part of the healing. Go ahead Warden, murder me. Jesus take me home. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/pippenroylast.htm

Yes I do. I would like to say to my two brother-in-laws and the rest of my family that I would like to thank you for supporting me through all of this. I went home to be with my Father and I went home as a trooper. I would like to say to Damien's family I did not murder your son. I did not do it. I just want you to know that -- I did not murder Damien and would ask for all of your forgiveness and I will see all of you soon. I love you guys. I love you guys. That's it. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/wyattwilliamlast.htm

Yeah. Momma, I just want you to know I love you. I want all of you to know I love you all. I am at peace; we know what it is. We know the truth. Stay out of crime; there is no point in it. I am at peace. We know the truth and I know it. I have some peace. I am glad it didn't take that long - no 10 or 20 years. I am at peace. And I want everyone to know I did not walk to this because this is straight up murder. I just want everybody to know I didn't walk to this. The reason is because it's murder. I am not going to play a part in my own murder. No one should have to do that. I love you all. I do not know all of your names. And I don't know how you feel about me. And whether you believe it or not, I did not kill them. I just want you all to have peace; you know what I'm saying. There is no point in that. It is neither here nor there. You have to move past it. It is time to move on. You know what I'm saying. I want each one of my loved ones to move on. I am glad it didn't last long. I am glad it didn't last long. I am at peace. I am at peace to the fullest. The people that did this - they know. I am not here to point fingers. God will let them know. If this is what it takes, just do what you got to do to get past it. What it takes. I am ready, Warden. Love you all. Let my son know I love him. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/reeselamontlast.htm

May I speak to my family? Honey, I love you. Be strong and take care of yourselves. Thanks for being there. Take care of yourself. Ms. Irene, thank you for everything you have done. Chaplain Hart, thank you for helping me. Gary, thank you. Maria, Maria, I love you baby. Thank you for being there for me and all these people here will find the one who did this damn crime. I am going home to be with God. Thank you. Thank you, Warden. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/wilsonjackielast.htm

Yes I do. I would like to address you first. I did not kill your loved one, but I hope that one day you find out who did. I wish I could tell you the reason why, or give some kind of solace; you lost someone you love very much. The same as my family and friends are going to lose in a few minutes. I am sure he died unjustly, just like I am. I did not murder him; I did not have anything to do with his death. And to you my family and friends, I love you dearly. Even though I die, that love for you will never die. Into Your hands, Lord, I commit my spirit. Thank you. Thank you all. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/ramirezluislast.htm

Yes sir. Sorry that I have to put my family through this. All of you know I got my peace. And I hope you find peace. And to the family, the truth will come out and I hope you find peace. I got my peace. I hope everybody has their peace. I am tired. I am going to be in your heart. I love you all. To everybody else, the truth will be known. It didn't come out in time to save my life. It is wrong to put the families through this. But when it comes out, I hope it stops this. It is wrong for the prosecutors to lie and make witnesses say what they need them to say. The truth has always been there. I just hope everybody has their peace. Today I get mine. I love you all. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/fuentesanthonylast.htm
I'm multi-quoting this because I've noticed that most of the people supporting the death penalty have pointedly avoided discussing the points I've brought up in these statements.
__________________




Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthlight View Post
St1cky only proves that he has no life and that his parents are alcoholics. They probably abused him with rubber duckies when he was a baby. Why else would you exploit scores on FFR?
Coolgamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2008, 09:53 PM   #231
1961casey
FFR Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 32
Default Re: The Death Penalty

Ok, so the United Nations declared that everyone has the right to 'life, liberty and the security of persons.' So what? It's a nice statement but what is going to back it up? As it stands, it is a nice sentiment, but when you consider that the majority of nations that make up the UN are despots, or police states it ends up being pretty empty. Therefore, until there is a mechanism in place to punish people or states that remove these rights from others it is pointless and unenforcable. If there is no equitable punishment for murder that is carried out by some accepted institution, then our right to life is an illusion. That is why the death penalty must be an option at the very least, if only to back up the seriousness with which we consider the crime of murder.
1961casey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2008, 10:01 PM   #232
rzr
TWG Veteran
 
rzr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ƲƝƌƐƦ ƮĦƐ ƧƐȺ
Age: 29
Posts: 7,608
Send a message via AIM to rzr Send a message via MSN to rzr Send a message via Yahoo to rzr Send a message via Skype™ to rzr
Default Re: The Death Penalty

Yes, devonin, but the escapee can kill many more than one innocent person.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkshark View Post
Everyone sucks at this game. The second you think you're good is the second you stop trying to get better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aperson View Post
i had a mri the other day it was the best song i heard in years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprite-
More of a joke than the time I deleted all the credits on the site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace View Post
yeah my goldfish think im a riot they do this thing where they turn upside down and float to the top of the tank

i guess their alcohol tolerance isnt as high as mine
rzr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-1-2008, 01:35 AM   #233
mixindrinks
FFR Player
 
mixindrinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 33
Default Re: The Death Penalty

Never really posted before in the forums but rzr I TOTALLY agree with you on the death penalty if someone murders another person intentionally, they should get the death penalty and be punished in a way that is as bad as or nearly as bad as the murder they committed.

ASC
mixindrinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-1-2008, 01:20 PM   #234
RubiedCross
FFR Veteran
FFR Veteran
 
RubiedCross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 377
Send a message via AIM to RubiedCross
Default Re: The Death Penalty

If this hasn't been posted yet: The Death Penalty should be a choice for the one getting the sentence. If they committed a crime that is deemed worthy of the Death Penalty, then they should be able to choose that or the sentence in jail that they would normally get.

Why anyone would choose the Death Penalty, who knows. I would, as I'd prefer that than life in jail. But that's just me. Other than making the Death Penalty a personal choice for the one deemed guilty, I doubt there is any other way of making the death penalty NOT optional that would settle politically and humanely.
RubiedCross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-1-2008, 01:31 PM   #235
gnr61
FFR Simfile Author
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
gnr61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: TOKYO STYLE SPEEDCORE, ohio
Age: 30
Posts: 7,251
Send a message via AIM to gnr61
Default Re: The Death Penalty

Quote:
Originally Posted by rzr View Post
Yes, devonin, but the escapee can kill many more than one innocent person.
You're arguing that we should kill people based on your assertion that we aren't competent enough to keep them in jail. Allowing the death penalty strictly for that reason is ridiculous as you should be focusing on the real problem: apparently there's a significant enough probability that someone stuck in maximum security solitary confinement for the rest of their life could escape that we should kill them just as a precaution. Now that's saying something about our maximum security if you believe this to be the case.
__________________
squirrel--it's whats for dinner.
gnr61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-1-2008, 06:08 PM   #236
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 10,098
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: The Death Penalty

And if he does believe it to be the case, he had better have some pretty compelling statistics to back it up. I'd suggest something on the order of at least 1% of all people convicted of murder having to escape and murder again before he can try to suggest that this requires more application of the death penalty.

One or two exceptions every half dozen years is not nearly significant enough.

More to the point, if we could compare the number of people convicted of capital crimes who've been later proven to be innocent to the number of people convicted of capital crimes who've later esacaped and continued killing, we could see which side is the more significant.

And I know where I'm betting that falls.
devonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-9-2008, 12:46 AM   #237
rzr
TWG Veteran
 
rzr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ƲƝƌƐƦ ƮĦƐ ƧƐȺ
Age: 29
Posts: 7,608
Send a message via AIM to rzr Send a message via MSN to rzr Send a message via Yahoo to rzr Send a message via Skype™ to rzr
Default Re: The Death Penalty

The stats have a point, too. The people support it.

I found here, some stastitcs about the death penalty in Florida. In 2007, 128 inmate escaped from prisons in Florida. What would happen if all 128 of those esapees killed two people after escaping? We'd have 256 dead instead of 128.

Or, more accurately, in Florida 06 1,129 people were murdered. 112 of the killers in jail escaped.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkshark View Post
Everyone sucks at this game. The second you think you're good is the second you stop trying to get better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aperson View Post
i had a mri the other day it was the best song i heard in years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprite-
More of a joke than the time I deleted all the credits on the site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace View Post
yeah my goldfish think im a riot they do this thing where they turn upside down and float to the top of the tank

i guess their alcohol tolerance isnt as high as mine
rzr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-9-2008, 01:27 AM   #238
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 10,098
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: The Death Penalty

Quote:
I found here, some stastitcs about the death penalty in Florida. In 2007, 128 inmate escaped from prisons in Florida. What would happen if all 128 of those esapees killed two people after escaping? We'd have 256 dead instead of 128.
How many were murderers? And bear in mind that your numbers include -all- escapees from the combined facilities of the Florida Department of Corrections. That means it includes "major institutions, annexes, work camps, work release centers, and road prisons throughout the state" as well as "Probation & Parole Facilities"

So how many of the 128 people escaped who had already served their time and were on probation or out on parole? I imagine the larger number of escapes were people on parole and on probation since, you know, they aren't actually -stopped- from running away.

You can't just present one number and expect us to go "Oh yes, how true."

Quote:
Or, more accurately, in Florida 06 1,129 people were murdered. 112 of the killers in jail escaped.
According to your website, a grand total of 122 people esacaped from all facilities under the purview of the Florida Department of Corrections, I'm curious where you determined that fully 92% of ALL escapees in Florida that year were people convicted of murder.

Last edited by devonin; 09-9-2008 at 01:33 AM..
devonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 11:22 AM   #239
Coolgamer
Old-School Player
FFR Veteran
 
Coolgamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Age: 33
Posts: 675
Send a message via AIM to Coolgamer Send a message via MSN to Coolgamer Send a message via Skype™ to Coolgamer
Default Re: The Death Penalty

http://www.protectthehuman.com/videos/hear-troy-davis

Damian from Amnesty UK sez, "Troy Davis is scheduled to be executed in Georgia at 7pm local time on 23 September. He has been on death row for 17 years for a murder he maintains he did not commit. His appeal for clemency was denied on 12 September. In March 2008, the Chief Justice of the Georgia Supreme Court, joined by two other Justices on the Court, wrote that: "In this case, nearly every witness who identified Davis as the shooter at trial has now disclaimed his or her ability to do so reliably. Three persons have stated that Sylvester Coles confessed to being the shooter. Two witnesses have stated that Sylvester Coles, contrary to his trial testimony, possessed a handgun immediately after the murder. Another witness has provided a description of the crimes that might indicate that Sylvester Coles was the shooter."
__________________




Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthlight View Post
St1cky only proves that he has no life and that his parents are alcoholics. They probably abused him with rubber duckies when he was a baby. Why else would you exploit scores on FFR?
Coolgamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 08:24 PM   #240
N.T.M.
FFR Player
 
N.T.M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Age: 30
Posts: 890
Send a message via AIM to N.T.M.
Red face Re: The Death Penalty

Funny: initially when I read this I assumed that the debate would be centered around the idea that death is too good for some people. For example if a guy rapes a child he shouldn't receive the death penalty. That'd be too good for him. He autta be tortured every motherf*cking day.

Uh... Well I guess that didn't really contribute to the thread. Sorry, I just had to letcha guys know.
__________________
“Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish... Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you.”

Christopher Hitchens
N.T.M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FlashFlashRevolution