10-20-2004, 10:08 AM | #61 |
let it snow~
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http://www.youhavebadtasteinmusic.com/
'Nuff said. I call it nitpicking. I replied without a quote, can't he? ~Squeek PS - thanks for finding my one and only menial error and pointing it out for me. |
10-20-2004, 03:53 PM | #62 | ||||||||||||||||||
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Furthermore, when I worked with 3dstudiomax many of the tutorials I followed referenced many pieces of design theory on which the tutorials were built. When you learn about one of the professional programs, you will definitely learn about many theories of design at the same time because of the manner in which the programs work. Quote:
Oh by the way, I have used Bryce, I know what I'm talking about: http://www.deviantart.com/view/721641/ There's one of my pieces with it.
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10-20-2004, 05:34 PM | #63 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Ironically enough, according to his last post, he has. Quote:
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Why would you not want me to "nitpick" anyway? Fear? Quote:
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If you would have said that, sure, I'd agree with it. Why would I not agree with what you actually said? You don't need to know anything about that to make your work look pretty. Like I said, if you want to get into stimulation of the mind and make people think about your work, then sure, art theory comes great in hand. Quote:
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Sure, I'll make rebuttals to that. You were saying before that when you picked up 3DSM, you researched art theory. Just because you have that program doesn't mean you have to understand art theory to make it function. You just have to know it if you want to apply it. EDIT: I just read a later part of your post that stated one of the tutorials continually referenced art theory. Okay that's great and all, if you want to understand what that particular tutorial is teaching you then I'd say that's perfectly valid. But you don't need to know art theory just to use the program. Sure, it definitely helps if you want to do stuff related to what the tutorial teaches you. Want proof? i sh0ot fiar: Do you know anything about art theory? SSJ997: can't say i do People LOVE what Reach does. Heck, I'm pretty fond of it myself. He's a great artist, and he uses 3DSM. :END EDIT In that sense, just by using Bryce doesn't mean that you cannot apply art theory to your work. If my work has stagnated(and I wouldn't argue that it hasn't, because I don't think it's getting any more intellectual, it just looks nicer), it isn't because I'm using Bryce; it's because I haven't bothered to study theory and apply it to how I use Bryce. Quote:
"By using these fake tools you are learning nothing, and your work will simply stagnate... and that's just what your work has done, it's stagnated." Because I use a tool that you consider to be lesser than 3DSM, my art stagnates. Not because I don't understand theory, but because of the tool I use. "You don't really understand anything important about a piece of art. Why is this? Because you use Bryce." So what you're saying is that Bryce is what prevents me from looking into art theory? That once I ditch Bryce, this physical block that prevents me from researching anything about it is suddenly gone? You said I had the logic problem. Quote:
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Anyway, just how long did you stay with Bryce? There's so much more that you can do than just shiny toruses that you apparently didn't learn when using it. EDIT: You didn't even make the render there, you just did the Photoshop. Are you trying to BS me or were you just using that as an example of something you could have done in Bryce? |
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10-20-2004, 06:03 PM | #64 |
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i'm getting kind of sick of this.... i know nothing of art. i have basically stayed out of this debate. i think i might have a solution.....
why doesn't Mwerp show us a small portfolio of his Bryce work, and Aperson and/or Porgy can also show us a small portfolio of their work using Maya or 3DSM. and from there, the art community here can vote on which they like the best. this doesn't really solve the debate about which program is better, but you all feel that you are good with the program you use, so this would be better than just continuing this debate forward endlessly.
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10-20-2004, 06:10 PM | #65 |
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That's stupid. You can't really compare what program is the supreme end-of-story program if you don't have the best of the best from each category. Not only that but we all have pretty different styles. All that would settle is whose art is better, and that's not what the argument is about.
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10-20-2004, 06:44 PM | #66 |
(The Fat's Sabobah)
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You guys are hilarious.
Art isnt about whose is better, it is about who can bullshit the best. |
10-20-2004, 07:00 PM | #67 |
auauauau
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Man I wish I could argue that well...
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10-20-2004, 07:03 PM | #68 | |
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10-20-2004, 08:10 PM | #69 |
let it snow~
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Right. I hate everything in the mainstream. Thanks for keeping more information on myself than I know about.
Though I admit I enjoy anime more than others, I am not against mainstream. I'm against crap. Bands that copy other bands that copy other bands...it's an endless loop of crap. Hate me if you want, but I still like Linkin Park. Yes, I DID like them before stupid 10-year olds ruined it for me. Want me to name other bands of whom I have purchased their every CD due to the fact that I liked their music on the radio? Also note that when I talk about somebody else, I use might, maybe, "I'm sure", etc. I found out later that Aperson did not use Bryce that much. Oh well. I made a guess. I would appreciate you not nitpicking because my posts are generally one idea flowing into the next into the next for the entirety. Taking out peices ruins the flow of the post. I'm dropping out of this argument. Here's why. a) Aperson's got it covered. b) I honestly can say I know less about creating art than anybody here. c) I've never used Bryce, 3DSM, Maya, Photoshop, etc. d) There's no point in arguing something with a person that does not want to listen to keywords within the post that change the meaning COMPLETELY. Such as "opinion", "view", etc. e) Jewpin already spoke twice in which I would ditto his statements. He said what I intended to say. With that said, there's no need to continue. ~Squeek PS - Seeing as I am now out of the "circle of debate" on whatever it is we're talking about, try not to take this one apart as easily as you think you can. |
10-20-2004, 08:28 PM | #70 | ||||||||||
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In the beginning you're talking about music. In the end you're talking about Bryce. You're just being overly pissy about the fact that quoting is such a superior method to organizing thoughts, ideas, and points, and thereafter making your rebuttals regarding each. Perhaps you feel intimidated by this method that you apparently cannot adapt to? Quote:
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Okay, you said that abstract art is not art(however contradictory that is). Then you said that it's your opinion that abstract art is not art. That's okay, I'll accept that you believe that as I had stated before. However, I also stated before that I'd try and change your opinion. Then you said that the definition of art is "opinion". I cannot even BEGIN to tell you how ridiculous that is. I pay attention to every part of your posts and reply to them accordingly. One spot where you lose is that you cannot do the same for me. Quote:
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You have NO IDEA how easy it is to pick out focal point of your posts and completely destroy what you've said about your opinions and points and whatever else. Why should I limit myself in overkill of such an easy target? It's funny. As long as you keep replying, you're still in whatever "circle" you thought you were in. |
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10-20-2004, 08:35 PM | #71 |
let it snow~
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Just to make it clear, I'm not a child.
I'm an adult. By law. Older than 98% of the people on FFR. That's all. ~Squeek |
10-20-2004, 08:38 PM | #72 | |
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10-20-2004, 08:49 PM | #73 |
嗚呼
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my name is drama
hi mr. topic |
10-20-2004, 11:39 PM | #74 | |
auauauau
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Basically, all I wanna say is, "If it works, don't fix it." I wish people would stop touching the classics that are fine the way they are. Making the song into something...How do I explain this...different in mood or style or something is fine, but when all you do is speed it up and give it a louder bass, or mix it in with rap and have the chorus repeat in the background(see: Long Train Runnin' by The Doobie Brothers)...That's crap. |
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10-21-2004, 01:44 AM | #75 | |
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Oh yeah, and i don't work in 3dsm. I did like 2 years ago but I enjoy maya more now. I have to use it for my business anyways (i do architectural visualisation for a few developers in Santa Barbara where Im originally from). I do suggest 3dsm as a good program to learn with though and i don't knock it whatsoever, its only problem is that as a stock package it doesnt have as much features integrated into it as say maya or softimage. You can get plugins though that provide for some very cool features. Oh and for all you flash animators out there you might like to know that maya exports to swf files. Here is a forum sig i did for my friend a long time ago in maya and then exported to flash. It's really simple and the quality is poor as i had to reduce the quality to keep the sig below http://soma.sbcc.edu/mccaskey/rave.html but yeah, real handy for more advanced flash integration for websites. It can also render to vector. Peace
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10-21-2004, 04:12 PM | #76 |
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HERE ENTERS ANOTHER BIASED THIRD PARTY UH OH UH OH.
So , I have used Bryce for almost a year. I stopped somewhat recently, though. There is a reason why, in fact. It's because in Bryce, there is hardly any room for expansion. When I say that, I mean it is an INCREDIBLY limited program. The most advanced things it can do are Booleans (that's pretty damn simple), and it has an okay texture editor. It would be good if the Bryce engine didn't make almost everything look like plastic. It does good metals, some fun volumetrics, and that's it. When I see about 90% of all bryce renders, I either think: "Hi, mister incredibly high specular coefficient!", "Hi, mister transparent metal texture!", "Hi, mister torus (x1000)!", "Hi, mister thats alot of random diffuse and ambient light that has nothing to do with the environment!", or finally "Hi, mister default full-entity lighting which is completely useless and makes things ugly!". So naturally, having used bryce for many moons, I am guilty of most of those (actually, some are unpreventable due to poor programming, but some are reversible by the user telling it what to do). I am not a wonderful 3d artist. I do not know much about art theory. And yet, I can say all of this because I have used the program, extensively. Bryce is far from wonderful. Hell, it even makes things take long to render. Its the most messed up type of rendering I have seen. Ever. Bryce took me only about a month to get familiar with. Easy learning interface, easy user interface. those are nice. But its so easy, that you soon find out that it is impossible to do things such as specific polygon editing/manipulation (EVERY OTHER PROGRAM can do that), it does not do NURBS (not that I use these...ever...but every other program can do these, too), has nothing that can confuse or thwart a new graphical artist. This is not good, because with the marked LACK of options, there is a marked LACK of possible variety. Only a couple of people I have ever seen have conquered the lack of options. RJ is one--kind of--he only manages to surpass others because of his Photoshop skills. That's what it seems for the most part. Also, a rather clever guy who could use terrain and lattices to render damned ANYTHING. And finally this other guy--not famous, no name I can recall. He rendered an AWESOME motorcycle in Bryce--I have no idea how he managed it. He did know art theory, I recall from his site. I think it was his major. But wow, that was good for the program's capabilities. So, for about 5-10 people, Bryce is a very good program. It is an okay program for perhaps a couple hundred people. Perhaps. For the rest, it is largely mediocre. Mwerp, this includes you. Most of your work was mediocre. Some, sure I liked. Then I saw it over and over an over again in all of your other renders. Please branch out in your style. Wait, you can't, because Bryce doesn't LET you. I have the same problem. The best I can do is multireplicate shitloads of spheres, apply a funky texture, photoshop, and call it art. Is it art? Sure. Is it good? Not really. Is it original? I haven't seen things like it before, but probably not. I think, overall, that Bryce might be good for beginners. Maybe about 2 weeks of instruction from a person will do you good, then you just regress and regress and regress into bad 3d habits. They are difficult to break when you try newer, better, more difficult programs. Trust me on that. I have used 3dsm6 quite a bit, with no help files, tutorials, or anything. It was fucking tricky. I hardly had a chance to experiment, but I had already realized how strong the program was. Features, features, and more features. Good ones. Very importantly, speedy rendering. Speedier than Bryce, in any case. Lightwave is even more so. It was used for the 3d parts of the Mars Lander documentary. High quality. It was used in several motion pictures, such as the Iron Giant, if I recall. But Maya is even more prominent than THAT. If you are used to 3d model Tekken figures, you know you're good right there. Even if you ignore the rest of its extensive and impressive resume. Bam, one item I picked off a list, and you can see that beautiful things can be made with it. Another thing, Bryce looks crappy without secondary production (more editing of pictures in a different program), almost always. It needs it. With all of these other, better programs, much less so. Though almost everything looks better after secondary production, I must admit. Bryce is largely unimpressive. Nobody has used it professionally since maybe the Mid 1990's. And we all know how good the 3d looked back then, Mmmm, MMM! However, if you don't mind wallowing in your 3d filth, Bryce is fine for you. If you use it for fun and not in seriousness (i.e. "My Bryce stuff is deeper than your Maya stuff because I am deep and abstract and all people who do abstract are are more intelligent than you"), it will amuse you sufficiently for some time. If you ARE serious and use Bryce, I sure hope it's because you can't afford anything else. By saying that I mean I hope you WILL be able to afford something else, so you can stop using Bryce. If you use it and are serious about it and think it is better than all the other programs without trying them, then you are ignorant. If you use it, are serious about it, and are GOOD (in my opinion), then you are one of about 5-10 people (as I said before). If you are reading this, you probably don't fall under this category. Even so. Compare the BEST Brycer with the BEST Maya-er. No motherfucking contest. Bryce simply can't do some of the things Maya, Lightwave, 3ds, Softimage, etcetera can do. And besides, the best Brycers wisened up and started using other programs instead. The best Brycers are not the best at 3d. Period. I know that was not written well, but it was written in chunks, and I did not stop to edit any of it along the way. But the content should be pretty clear. If it is not, you are either stupid, I mistyped, or in denial.
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10-21-2004, 04:22 PM | #77 | ||||||
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Lawyers do this with precedent cases in courts. They take previous cases that somehow tie in with the one they are working on and use it in their case. They basically replicate the argument or topic or whatever. Quote:
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10-21-2004, 04:42 PM | #78 | |
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10-21-2004, 05:01 PM | #79 |
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This is so out of hand. A 4-5 person flame war? I swear I wish I had mod powers so I could fucking LOCK this insane piece of shit because the mods aren't doing their job.
Here's my opinion: Mwerp, AP, and Porgy all have their own opinions that they are enforcing like hell. I respect this, but the drama that their arguments create is SO THICK, YOU COULDN'T CUT IT WITH A TWO FOOT OBSIDIAN SCALPEL. You each have given the points of each of your arguments, so now all that is left to do is run each other into the ground. All that is meant to happen in this forum is CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. It's obvious that isn't happening anytime soon between these few. Locked. (I wish.)
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10-21-2004, 05:04 PM | #80 | |
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Anyways, I love how nobody wanted to comment on my post.
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