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Old 04-8-2008, 11:32 PM   #1
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Default Reincarnation...

Ok, because there was a demand for this thread I am taking the liberty of making it.

Before contemplating the very meaning of the term itself, read the religious terms glossery sticky. But if you're too lazy, just remember that the precise definition of reincarnation is "rebirth of the soul in another body" [as quoted by The American Heritage Dictionary, 4th Edition].

Now, my sole question here is what's your opinion of reincarnation? Devonin says it's pointless? How is a belief that's been in practice for centuries be deemed pointless?
Is the aspect that an nonproven belief so absurd and extraordinary actually possible? But if it is doesn't that put all religion into question as their basic beliefs have been unfounded and no physical evidence has been displayed?
I think a stimulating debate could be produced in this thread, what do you think of reincarnation?

As a quick note: remember the CT rules. And don't insult anyone's religion. If you are a strong disbeliever of reincarnation and solely follow Christianity, that's fine. But if you choose to strictly interpret the Bible etc, state your opinions and the flaws you view in others. Never attack someone for their opinions.
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Old 04-8-2008, 11:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

I don't personally believe in reincarnation, but I see merits in it. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, because I probably am, but I think it's... Buddhism? that says that depending on your life you come back as a different animal. Regardless, using that theory as a starting point: one is rewarded for living a life to the fullest. If you live a bad life, you come back as a lesser animal, say a worm or fly. The more good deeds you do in your current incarnation, the higher up on the "awesome animal" food chain you climb.
This method rewards those who do good things, and punishes those who don't. Overall, an idea worth considering.
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Old 04-8-2008, 11:42 PM   #3
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

Not really. Buddhists believe in the Atman and the Brahman. They believe that when you reincarnate it's because your past life was bad and the good deeds are out weighed by the bad ones. They believe that once you finally have finally reached enlightenment the reincarnation process ceases and your individual soul in united with the world soul. Nothing really to do with food chains.
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Old 04-8-2008, 11:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

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How is a belief that's been in practice for centuries be deemed pointless?
Burning "witches" at the stake was practised for centuries and I think we all now understand how pointless and incredibly stupid that was.

My personal opinion on reincarnation is it doesn't occur. I can see how the hypothesis of being born anew came from as if we had very limited information, this would probably be a more common belief. I also have my own understanding of the world being Athisist but I don't want to de-rail this topic as that's a larger and whole different topic.
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Old 04-8-2008, 11:48 PM   #5
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

I'm not one for reincarnation. I simply believe in the NOW. I don't worry about dieing, the more you worry about it the worse it will be when it actually comes. Sorry, but for me it's an endless eternity of pulses and beats.

When I die I hope to become one with everything, so I can feel the pulse of the universe and be synchronized with everything.
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Old 04-8-2008, 11:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

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Not really. Buddhists believe in the Atman and the Brahman. They believe that when you reincarnate it's because your past life was bad and the good deeds are out weighed by the bad ones. They believe that once you finally have finally reached enlightenment the reincarnation process ceases and your individual soul in united with the world soul. Nothing really to do with food chains.
Oh, dag. Like I said I really wasn't sure. But, there you go. Reincarnation as a punishment.
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Old 04-9-2008, 12:00 AM   #7
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

I personally don't think reincarnation could be possible. But nobody will ever know if it really is. It will stay a question for possibly hundreds or thousands of years like "Is there life after death?"

You must be able to prove this in order for many people to believe it, including me. Reincarnation was believed for many thousands of years, but havn't we outgrown most theories on life from the stone age?

Also, reincarnation is possible. If you think about it, your soul being rewarded for good behaviour by moving up the "awesome animals" list(or vice-versa) is something many people will want after they pass on.
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Old 04-9-2008, 12:04 AM   #8
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

The Buddhist Basics:

World wide followers: 354 million
Name of deity: The Buddha (did not teach a personal deity)
Founder: The Buddha
Holy book: no one book is worshiped. Sacred texts are embraced such as Perfection of Wisdom Sutra
Leadership: monks and nuns.
Basic Beliefs: persons achieve complete peace and happiness, known as Nirvana, by eliminating their attachments to worldly things.
- Nirvana is reached by following the Noble Eightfold Path: right views, right aspirations, right speech, right conduct, right livelihood, right endeavor, right mindfulness, right meditation.

Buddhists mainly are found in southeast Asia, consisting of approximately 28% of the southeastern population. However, of the world religious population Buddhists have 0.2 %. In China the take 6% and India, 1%. For the most part the other regions Buddhist population is so small- the fraction is too small to add in.

The actual birth name of The Buddha was Siddhartha Gautama. The name "Buddha" actually means "the enlightened one". The Buddha preached that the key to happiness is detachment fro all material possessions and worldly desires. This would be achieved by following the Eightfold Path (as previously refered to) and the Middle Way.

Practices: in most Buddhist sects monks and nuns are expected to lead a life of poverty, meditation, and study. To learn humility the Buddhist mols commonly beg for done and money. They are not allowed to speak to or notice this donors and doing so is said to lessen the spirituality act. Buddhists mostly believe in rebirth, which applies to the reincarnation of all beings, not just humans.
All Buddhists take careful sure not to kill anything- including insects, because they believe all beings have potential spiritual growth.
The 3 cardinal flaws of Buddhism: greed, hatred, and delusion.

That's pretty much all I know.
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Old 04-9-2008, 12:08 AM   #9
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

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I personally don't think reincarnation could be possible. But nobody will ever know if it really is. It will stay a question for possibly hundreds or thousands of years like "Is there life after death?"
Lack of evidence when researched and tested means that it is probably false. Lack of prove is almost the equivalent to proof that it doesn't exist IMO.


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You must be able to prove this in order for many people to believe it, including me. Reincarnation was believed for many thousands of years, but havn't we outgrown most theories on life from the stone age?
As science advances so do our theories. Evolution and Darwinism are theories of how we came to be and this was developed in the 1900's.


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Also, reincarnation is possible. If you think about it, your soul being rewarded for good behaviour by moving up the "awesome animals" list(or vice-versa) is something many people will want after they pass on.
Wanting something to be doesn't make it possible. Lets say people wanted it to rain frogs, does the fact that they want to make it possible?
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Old 04-9-2008, 12:20 AM   #10
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

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Lack of evidence when researched and tested means that it is probably false. Lack of prove is almost the equivalent to proof that it doesn't exist IMO.
False, look at just about all theoretical science. Example: for many years they've been theorizing that "solar tsunamis (perturbations on the surface of the sun)" move at close to 1,000,000 km/hr. Using technology of the time, the tsunamis they witnessed were moving at a third of that speed, at best. Finally, just this year, they got a glimpse of one using a much more powerful satellite and BAM. Matched right up with the predicted values.

Just because you don't have proof right now of something doesn't mean it's not correct, or close to correct. Lack of proof is not disproof.


Quote:
Wanting something to be doesn't make it possible. Lets say people wanted it to rain frogs, does the fact that they want to make it possible?
Bad example:
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/ednks007.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raining_animals
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Old 04-9-2008, 12:22 AM   #11
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

It does not matter in any way how long of a duration it was practiced or believed or how many people believes it. It doesn't justify it as right or critical. Reincarnation in my opinion is yet another fantasia of a religion along with all the other assortments of religion. Religion as a whole is a dependency, a hope, a source of gain for some.

Back in the inquisition period in history, people abide their lives on religion. When philosophers said that God does not exist, people were scared to think what the point of life was anymore. It is this dependency that the catholic church later on gained from religion by selling Indulgences. It was giving catholic church money so they ensure your ascendancy to heaven. To many protestant Christian believers or catholic all the like, religion is mere hope to them for having a better aftermath than death. Reincarnation is yet just another perspective people believe in and hoping it exists, nothing more.

Even if it did exist, how would you know? You get reborn and resuscitated into a new life and new body and new mind. How did you know this was the result of reincarnation?

Conclusion, reincarnation is not fundamentally possible, just another aspect of religion.
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Old 04-9-2008, 12:28 AM   #12
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

Personally I believe in a variation of reincarnation and MANY other things.
I do believe that reincarnation is possible, but not in an entirely strict aspect that that the Buddhists interpret it. I do believe that it's possible for reincarnation to occur, but I believe it's at the disgression of a higher power. After all, to my understanding there is no set way to judge who is reincarnated and whose soul is united with the world soul. Furthermore what factors are consistant in determining those actions?

(I think I may make a seperate thread for people to discuss variation in Agnostic beliefs, because tip thread is for discussing the faults and truths of reincarnation).
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Old 04-9-2008, 12:28 AM   #13
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

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I'm not one for reincarnation. I simply believe in the NOW. I don't worry about dieing, the more you worry about it the worse it will be when it actually comes. Sorry, but for me it's an endless eternity of pulses and beats.

When I die I hope to become one with everything, so I can feel the pulse of the universe and be synchronized with everything.
That is exactly how I feel about my religion. I haven't really picked one =/

About reincarnation. Even though it can't be proven, there are some cases where it was the obvious answer for the unknown. Like this kid who was about four or five knew about WWII, and he described a soldier who was killed, and he was one-hundred percent correct about all of that information. The information on that soldier was not common knowlege, and could not have been looked up by the child. Since a young boy can describe his "previous life," I have a faint belief in reincarnation.

Edit: Ah, sorry. I couldn't find the news story, but I know that it's out there.

Last edited by dandandamdandan1111; 04-9-2008 at 12:33 AM..
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Old 04-9-2008, 12:33 AM   #14
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

Rzr, you do not have "truth" if you take out the agnostic perspective from this thread. From the way you said it, you say it like it was existent and proven it exists already and you are only asking about the good and bad points.

No matter what perspective you, that is everyone, are replying from, the established facts are:

-Reincarnation is currently not proven, only an idea.
-Reincarnation is a part of a religion.
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Old 04-9-2008, 12:33 AM   #15
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

@ dan: perhaps then the only was to have insight into one's past life is from that of a child whose innocence is still expirtant whereas older people's innocence is diminished and nearly nonexistant?
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yeah my goldfish think im a riot they do this thing where they turn upside down and float to the top of the tank

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Old 04-9-2008, 12:36 AM   #16
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

rzr, could you elaborate a little bit?
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Old 04-9-2008, 12:37 AM   #17
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

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Rzr, you do not have "truth" if you take out the agnostic perspective from this thread. From the way you said it, you say it like it was existent and proven it exists already and you are only asking about the good and bad points.

No matter what perspective you, that is everyone, are replying from, the established facts are:

-Reincarnation is currently not proven, only an idea.
-Reincarnation is a part of a religion.
You're saying reincarnation is an unproven part of another religion. But all religion is unproven because there is no physical evidence to support any beliefs. If there was physical proof, it wouldn't be a religion.
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yeah my goldfish think im a riot they do this thing where they turn upside down and float to the top of the tank

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Old 04-9-2008, 12:44 AM   #18
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rzr, could you elaborate a little bit?
Sure thing.
Children are said to to be the most innocent of all humans. Reincarnation is based on the thoughts that if you have done too many bad deeds you keep coming back until you get it right (super simplified version). If a child is the most innocent then they haven't commited any bad deeds. That means the child, if they died as a child, would not be reincarnated. So if a child has insight to his previous life, could that mean... what would that mean based on the thoughts and facts I just layed down?

EDIT: If this is a double post, pleased devonin, don't kill me. CT threads aren't usually this active so I'm trying to answer and reply to everything as quick as I can without knowing what's been posted since my last reply or lack there of.
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Old 04-9-2008, 12:47 AM   #19
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

I most certainly didn't say it was pointless. I said it was individually meaningless. There is a huge difference there.

It can be vitally important to someone to try and live a life according to the tenets that lead them to a positive reincarnation, my point is that to each individual, even if reincarnation were true, it wouldn't actually mean anything. I'll repost my logic from the other thread:

Hypothesis: People are reincarnated when they die

Premise: Either you remember your past life or you don't

Premise: I have never met any person in my entire life with memories of a past life

Premise: Either I've coincidentally only met brand new souls, or you do not remember your past life

Conclusion 1: It seems far more likely that you do not remember your past life, than that I have never once met a single person who wasn't a newly created soul

Conclusion 2: You don't remember your past life

Implication: If you don't remember your past lives, the fact that you had them is individually meaningless, because you cannot prove that you did, have no memory of them, and they have no visible impact on your life.

If it is impossible for me to know whether I've lived any previous lives, whether I have or not becomes meaningless. Even if I do poorly in this life and will be reincarnated in a lesser incarnation, that one won't remember that it slipped up to know it needsto work harder, in fact any possible lesson can't be learned, because all information was lost.
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Old 04-9-2008, 12:49 AM   #20
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Default Re: Reincarnation...

Fun fact, though, Dev, there are more people alive today than have walked the Earth in total. At least from what I've heard.
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