Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by RoastedNoob

So, is this where the wavedash haters talk about smash? lolol

I think it's pretty funny that you refuse to play against them, I guess they are just too fast for you to keep up with.. Hehe

I think this game will be great, regaurdless of wavedashing being in it. My main concern is the speed, though I'm seeing Brawl as a completely different game. On the small preview they released, take a look at Link after Wario's scene. Look how incredibly slow he moves. I think alot of people are still going to play melee, I'm pretty sure I will... but I'm still going to love this game. ..but the speed adjustment really bothers me.

Taunting eh? Great! LET'S SETTLE THIS WITH A--

notice not to make the forums a chat room. If you're gonna back-and-forth with someone, do it in FFR Chat or on a private messenger.

With regards to your chat logs:

1) Wavedashing is not a part of Melee. I'd say maybe 5% of all people who play Melee use wavedashing, because you're all obsessed with being #1 in tournaments of what you call "skill". For the six million other players out there, wavedashing doesn't even exist, tournaments are out of the question, and Melee is seen as a fun party game to play with friends.

2) This is not where "I go" to discuss wavedashing. We've had countless discussion about the subject in a Melee thread, which I've retired from because I'm positively sick of arguing this point. This is where I go to discuss things I think may or may not be a part of Brawl.

3) I'm still debating whether or not I'm willing to play people I don't know online, but as it stands, I wouldn't. Probably because you're all too stuck up on tournament rules to allow me to use items or pick a --gasp-- "fun" stage! I mean, who would want to allow luck to be a factor in video games. Surely no developer could allow such a thing!

4) Super Smash Brothers is, and always has been, a party game designed for 2-4 friends to have fun wailing on each other. Y'all managed to turn it into a showcase just like counter strike. I'm amazed to hear no news of clans for super smash brothers yet. I mean, some kids even think they can manage clans on ffr, which has no team play whatsoever.

[sjoecool1991]

Originally Posted by Shamo0

sjoecool1991, if you honestly don't see a speed increase in wave dashing or L-canceling when watching this video tutorial you need your eyes looked at.


Oh yeah about the gamespeed. I think it should remain fast. I mean there's a drastic speed increase from the N64 version to the GC version. Maybe it's just a better FPS? I don't know, but I hope it's the same speed as the GC version or faster. :3

Watched it, and then I watched a video of a tournament, of a guy that NEVER uses wavedashing easily beating a guy who does use wavedashes.

[Shamo0]

Watch Ken's Marth. video

L-canceling and variety of other techniques are used like wavedashing. Also who was playing in the video you watched and what were the characters and which one was wavedashing?

[RoastedNoob]

I'm not saying wavedash makes you win, and whoa... 5% use wavedashing? Go on over to SmashBoards.com. It's probably 1% of the community that doesn't. This game was intended to be a party game, yes.. but the community turned it into something much more. Btw, there are clans, but they are called crews. You obviously only play for fun, and that's cool... but taking it to that whole other level is beyond anything that you've experienced while playing that game... and I know for a fact that a good amount of players could go matches upon matches without wavedashing and l-cancelling and still win against all of us. It's playing smart that wins, wavedashing helps you be less predictable and quicker about it. I'd say check out Mew2King vs. PC Chris, perhaps a recent EvO. Ken isn't as good as he use to be, sadly. I'd say Mew2King is the best in the world right now. I think you're the one being too serious about the game, honestly. I think if you gave wavedashing a try, you'd love it. Have you ever even attempted it, or have you just always hated it? So many things have become a part of this game that Sakurai most likely didn't want... Well, he can change that in Brawl.. but I'd say any Melee player you run into that you don't already know, will wavedash and l-cancel, unless they just don't know about it.

Good fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWnYd...elated&search=

[Squeek]

Yeah, because people who post on smashboards.com = everyone who purchased the game, let alone everyone who's played it.

You completely missed the point of my argument.

Also, you tourneybums banned items, so there's not point in my presence at said tournaments. My entire fighting strategy is based on throwing, and with items disabled, I'm kinda outta luck wouldn't you say?

[RoastedNoob]

Sounds like a strategy with a lot of flaws. ;x

What do you do when there aren't any items on the stage?

I only found SmashBoards a year ago, my state sucks for smash. I'm still finding people that don't know about it and own the game.

[Shamo0]

that was a great match

[Squeek]

You mean there are times when items aren't on the stage? I usually play on medium or low-medium and I've never had that happen. Maybe on REALLY small stages, but item-throwing on Final Destination doesn't really serve much of a purpose.

Just because it's the foundation of my strategy doesn't mean I'm pathetic without it. It just means I don't have a chance against people who play the game way too much. I can beat my friends and the computers without a problem.

My strategy involves feints and double/triple feints. Maybe I thought the item I just threw at you would hit. Maybe I knew it'd miss and bounce off of the box behind you, thus hitting you, making your sprite flinch, leaving it wide-open for a smash attack. Maybe I knew it'd miss and bounce off the box but that you'd dodge that but while focusing on that, fail to notice the item I threw straight up off the stage and watch as it hilariously falls right on your head, which makes you flinch, which leaves you wide-open for a smash attack. Maybe the faked-fake-fake I threw up was meant to miss you but bounce off the slight inclined slope behind you and hit you when you didn't expect it.

poink.

[RoastedNoob]

I'd probably just catch the item and throw it back. ;x

[Chromer]

I recently went to a tournament where there was items on Low. It was a four way match between I (Sheik), a Fox, Ice Climbers, and Samus. The IC and Fox got elimiated and then Samus and I were left. It was a pretty intense match since we were on Snowcone Mountain. Just then, a mine spawned. Me being the tricky person I am, I placed the mine on the ground so you couldn't see it. I then jumped down and proceeded to wail on this guy until I upsmashed him. Into the mine. Needless to say, he was kicking himself inthe ass for not noticing it.

[RoastedNoob]

Hahaha.. Mines are the ****. Gotta be my favorite item. I don't see how anyone could play Icicle Mountain, though. That stage is just really annoying to me. DK's scroll level looks okay, but I still think I'll hate it. x.x I think they are putting a lot fun/trippy items for Brawl. lol Brawl will be focused on as an amazing party game, but the tournament play compared to Melee probably won't compare at all. I played Melee purely for fun until about a year and a half ago, and my love for Melee has grown by so much. I'm addicted to this damn game. x.x This is a Halo state, though. So, my main thing is the online play. I can't wait! >.<

[MarisaKirisame]

There will always be competitive play.

Even if it's just throwing the items as fast as you can and camping the places where items are most likely to spawn.

[RoastedNoob]

I know, but I'm saying I don't think competitive play will be as wide-spread as Melee was... and I think I'll honestly still play Melee quite a bit with some of my friends... but who knows until it's out.

[Squeek]

Good. I hope it isn't.

Video game tournaments are a joke to begin with. True video game talent should be tested with games nobody has ever played. That way, you can prove that you have inherent talent and can easily beat ANY game.

It could be like a Strong Man competition. They have 5-10 games lined up that nobody has ever played before and make all contestants compete to see who finishes first / who gets the high score in a certain amount of time. They award points based on individual placement per game.

See, the Strong-Man competition never has generic things like "lift these weights" or "do some push-ups". It's always like "hold these two cars full of people in place while they're in neutral going down ramps" or "lift these giant stone spheres, carry them over to these pedestals, and put them in place" or "carry this gigantic 400-pound rock 100 meters and back again as fast as you can". Nothing is generic in the Strong Man competition. It's all based on skill.

[zidart]

well i would play on-line with or without items, i think items give the battle a suprise factor and a lot of chaos, besides you need strategy to evade the items of your enemy, a truly smash player is the one that can overcome every obstacle. and not jsut give the excuse of why they don't use items and "fun" stages.

and squeek, videogame tournaments are to see who is the best in playing that particular game, is like who is the best team in a world championship, i think it would be stupid if they tested who learns to play more quickly soccer.

however you goy a point with the inherent talent, i won't deny that

[Squeek]

There's a problem with soccer, basketball, tennis, etc. using the same theory I have for videogames. See, with soccer, you practice your entire time kicking a ball around (unless you're a goalie). With basketball, you practice shooting, passing, and defending. With your hands. A basketball player can never be a soccer player (professionally). Tennis, you're holding a racquet hitting a small ball. You don't even touch the ball with your own body aside from serving. Completely different from the other sports.

But video games. Aside from the Wii's purely motion-controlled games, you're using fingers to press buttons. That's it. Your skill comes from hand-eye coordination. Anyone who plays a game long enough with good hand-eye coordination can master it.

There's an upper limit to games. You can only move your fingers so fast. The screen can only display so much. You can only stay awake so long. But with sports, the only limit is the human body. How long you can play is based on how well your body is hydrated and conditioned for extended periods of play. How hard you can throw / hit / kick the ball depends on how strong your muscles are and how skilled you are at hit/throw/kicking it at its hardest.

How fast you move your fingers? What a ridiculous concept for a tournament. I can't believe so many people buy into video gaming as an acceptable tournament event.

[zidart]

well but the point is, that to win a tournament you need skill, well it sounds stupid if you say it that way, because you also have to use some kind of strategy in smash, the ability to think really fast. what's the point of moving your fingers fast if you don't have a coordination? and multiplayer is something really popular since the beggining of gaming, a tournament is just an interesting idea of who is the best in that game.

but well tournaments and on-line gaming like it or not is something to prove your gaming skills with other gamers some cheat and use cheap glitches but the ones that don't are the ones that give a very good fight, and also i love to beat people who use glitches.

[Shamo0]

Originally Posted by Squeek

How fast you move your fingers? What a ridiculous concept for a tournament. I can't believe so many people buy into video gaming as an acceptable tournament event.

Isn't that what we do in FFR? How is that concept hard to carry over to another game? In a tournament there are prizes, in a tournament people try there best.

Tournament: a trial of skill in some game, in which competitors play a series of contests Source


It is acceptable you just don't approve because you're not hardcore like the people that would actually enter said tournaments.

Originally Posted by Squeek with Shamoo's logic

There is no problem with soccer, basketball, tennis, etc. using the same theory I have for videogames. See, with soccer, you practice your entire time kicking a ball around (unless you're a goalie). With basketball, you practice shooting, passing, and defending. With your hands. A basketball player can never be a soccer player (professionally). Tennis, you're holding a racquet hitting a small ball. You don't even touch the ball with your own body aside from serving. Completely different from the other sports.

With all video games and even moreso from the Wii's purely motion-controlled games, you're using fingers to press buttons. Your skill comes from hand-eye coordination. Anyone who plays a game long enough with good hand-eye coordination can master it. Likewise in Baseball when you swing the bat to connect to a ball, in videogames you're simply pressing down your finger to make contact in a virtual realm. Using the same skills as real sports to be a great player.

There's an upper limit to games and sports. You can only move your fingers, arms, legs so fast. Your eyes can only comprehend so much. You can only stay awake so long. With sports, the only limit is the human body. How long you can play is based on how well your body is hydrated and conditioned for extended periods of play. How hard you can throw / hit / kick the ball depends on how strong your muscles are and how skilled you are at hit/throw/kicking it at its hardest. With videogames it's the same exact thing using different muscles with rules created in the game abiding by rules like virtual gravity and physics in the virtual world.

How fast you move your fingers? What a completely valid concept for a tournament. I believe the reason so many people buy into video gaming as an acceptable tournament event is because it takes just as much dedication as a real sport.

[zidart]

i wouldnt have said it better myself

[masterhickle]

Originally Posted by Shamo0

Isn't that what we do in FFR? How is that concept hard to carry over to another game? In a tournament there are prizes, in a tournament people try there best.

Tournament: a trial of skill in some game, in which competitors play a series of contests Source


It is acceptable you just don't approve because you're not hardcore like the people that would actually enter said tournaments.

Nicely said.