SSBM Competitive info.

[tsugomaru]

Originally Posted by MarisaKirisame

That just means the item thrower isn't throwing them at the right times or something.

I'm pretty sure my friend is throwing the items correctly. He's played the game more than I have and he's better than me.

~Tsugomaru

[Hylian]

Originally Posted by Bloodhunger539

What do you mean by Float Cancel? I've been most confortable with peach the past 2 days, so it would be good to know XD


On side note, How good a character is Roy considered?...jw

Float Canceling is using an arieal attack out of your float then hitting the ground. Because you were floating you will have no lag when landing aside from the usualy 4 frames of landing lag.

Roy is considered a bad character. He is low tier. Marth is much much much much better.

[ckj846]

Just because a character is low tier doesn't mean you can't be good with them. *cough cough* DK.

O_o

[Bloodhunger539]

lol XD

thats cools thanks. I already knew marth was way better than roy, but i was wondering about roy as a good character to use because i was practicing 1v1 against abunch of different lvl9's with peach, and i totally demolished roy. he didnt kill me once, i ended up KOing him 3 times in a minute, then ko'd him the last time in like 40 seconds it was wild

[Hylian]

Originally Posted by Bloodhunger539

lol XD

thats cools thanks. I already knew marth was way better than roy, but i was wondering about roy as a good character to use because i was practicing 1v1 against abunch of different lvl9's with peach, and i totally demolished roy. he didnt kill me once, i ended up KOing him 3 times in a minute, then ko'd him the last time in like 40 seconds it was wild

You should never use lvl 9's to determin skill.

[MarisaKirisame]

You can make a level 9 jump off a cliff four times on his own.

Seriously.

[Bloodhunger539]

ok.. i said i was practicing =/

[Doug31]

Roy is better than Marth in 4 player FFA, but I do prefer Marth for battling 1v1, which I'm guessing is pretty much all you guys ever do, so you just consider Marth better for that.

[Hylian]

Originally Posted by Doug31

Roy is better than Marth in 4 player FFA, but I do prefer Marth for battling 1v1, which I'm guessing is pretty much all you guys ever do, so you just consider Marth better for that.

No...roy isn't better then marth in FFA. At all. Marth is still a much better character.

Marth and Roy:

Wavedash length: Marth’s is longer
Running speed: Marth is faster
Taunt length: Not sure, but I think Marth’s is faster?
Marth’s sweetspot is at the very tip of his sword
Roy’s sweetspot is at the center of his sword.
Marth is stronger than Roy.
Marth is heavier than Roy.
Marth’s ground A attack comes out faster continuously than Roy’s.
Roy’s special attacks are stronger.
Roy’s throws are stronger, but Marth can chain throw better
Roy falls faster than Marth.
Roy’s up B is slower than Marth’s and has multiple hits.
Marth’s dair is a spike (not a meteor smash)
Roy’s dtilt sends the opponent up, while Marth’s sends the opponent downwards.
Roy’s Usmash has multiple hits and can “spike” if you hit with the tip of his sword.

A moves
--------
Neutral A
Marth: 6%
Roy: 5%

Tilt Forward
Marth: 13%
Roy: 10%

Tilt Up
Marth: 12%
Roy: 8%

Tilt Down
Marth: 10%
Roy: 10%

Neutral Air
Marth: 13%
Roy: 11%

Forward Air
Marth: 13%
Roy: 8%

Back Air
Marth: 13%
Roy: 9%

Up Air
Marth: 13%
Roy: 6%

Down Air
Marth: 13%
Roy: 10%

Smash Forward
Marth: 20% uncharged, 27% charged
Roy: 20% uncharged, 27% charged

Smash Up
Marth: 18% uncharged, 24% charged
Roy: 16% uncharged, 22% charged

Smash Down
Marth: 16% uncharged, 21% charged
Roy: 21% uncharged, 28% charged

Who has stronger A moves?
Marth: 9
Roy: 1

B moves
--------
Neutral B
Marth: 7% uncharged, 28% charged
Roy: 6% uncharged, 50% charged

Forward B*
Marth: 4% 5% 10% 14%
Roy: 5% 6% 9% 11%

Up B
Marth: 13%
Roy: 13%

Down B
Marth: 7%
Roy: 1.5x attack countered

Who has stronger B moves?
Marth: 1
Roy: 2

Throws
-------
Forward Throw
Marth: 4%
Roy: 5%

Back Throw
Marth: 4%
Roy: 5%

Up Throw
Marth: 4%
Roy: 5%

Down Throw
Marth: 5%
Roy: 6%

Grab Attack
Marth: 3%
Roy: 3%

Who has stronger throws? (But marths throws are better for combo purposes)
Marth: 0
Roy: 4

[masterhickle]

Marth is stronger than Roy.
Marth’s dair is a spike (not a meteor smash).

Those are the only two I would like to comment on.

Roy is definitely stronger than Marth.

Roy's D-air is a spike, but it's the same as getting a Flame Spike with Y.Link's D-air - you need to hit them with the hilt of the sword.


(I won't be able to view / reply to this until Friday, I'm gonna be out of town)

[obsequious313]

marth pwns all

marth <333333

[slickskater29]

Hylian, when you say that Marth is heavier, do you mean knock back length, or falling speed? Cuz Roy defiantly falls faster, which is why I don't think you mean that. On another note...SUPER SMASH BROS. BRAWL RELEASES DECEMBER 3rd 07!

I'd like to play Doc seriously, but I need some tips, like staple things that all Docs need to do.

[ckj846]

No offense but how do you find this game fun if all you do is analyze the % per hit of each attack and comparing characters of tiers so that you can find which one is the absolute best in the game? Doesn't make very much sense to me. It's best to just experiment with the character that fits your play style the best. Maybe he is better with roy than marth, you can still be a very good player with any character. I'm a very defensive player, and I'm a different peach player then most are used to which allows me to gain an edge when I play other people. It doesn't matter who is stronger or has a longer wavedash time or a faster recovery, it matters if you can enjoy playing as that character and be effective with them.

O_o

[devonin]

No offense but how do you find this game fun if all you do is analyze the % per hit of each attack and comparing characters of tiers so that you can find which one is the absolute best in the game?

For some people the most fun is in playing the game, for others it is in winning the game, and for others it is in understanding the game. For most it is some combination of all three. Just because I don't espouse the "Winning is everything, so do everything you can to win" playstyle, doesn't mean I don't respect it and understand its appeal.

[Doug31]

Wow, um, almost none of Marth's moves that are stronger than Roy according to that do I ever really use much in 4 player FFA. And I refuse to play with any crap like wavedashing that shouldn't exist.

[MCRenaissance]

Originally Posted by Doug31

And I refuse to play with any crap like wavedashing that shouldn't exist.

Man, you just give me more and more reasons to dislike you.

[slickskater29]

@Doug31-This thread is about competitive SSBM. So if you refuse to play with ATs which are in the competitive game, then why would you even post here?

Can we try to keep this about competitive smash.

Also, CKJ, you play a defensive peach, but you are different? And that stuff does matter when determining tiers.

Lastly, anyone main Doc?

[GuidoHunter]

Originally Posted by ckj846

It doesn't matter who is stronger or has a longer wavedash time or a faster recovery, it matters if you can enjoy playing as that character and be effective with them.

O_o

I don't know if you've noticed, but this is a SSBM Competitive thread. That is, for tournaments and competition, not just dicking around with friends.

You could be the greatest Mewtwo/Bowser player in the world, but there's no way you're going to beat a moderately good Marth/Sheik in a competitive situation. As such, it DOES matter who has a longer wavedash or falls faster or any of that crap.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[masterhickle]

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

I don't know if you've noticed, but this is a SSBM Competitive thread. That is, for tournaments and competition, not just dicking around with friends.

You could be the greatest Mewtwo/Bowser player in the world, but there's no way you're going to beat a moderately good Marth/Sheik in a competitive situation. As such, it DOES matter who has a longer wavedash or falls faster or any of that crap.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Guido FTW.


Anyway,
I'm curious as to which characters would be Captain Falcon's hardest match-ups. I'm thinking Falco, because of SHL and shine combo's, and Peach, because of turnip edge-guarding (owww....). But I'm curious to see what others think.

Edit : Also, if anyone could offer advice on said difficult match-ups, to hopefully turn the tide even slightly into Falcon's favor.

[Hylian]

Don't belive marth is stronger than roy?

Go test it out. All of marths A moves do more damage except 1 I think. Most of roys moves have moderatly more knockback which is horrible because Roy cannot combo very well while marth is one of the best combo characters in the game.

Marth is heavier means that for example if roy was hit by a fully charged bowser fsmash at 60% he would die where as Marth would live because he is a heavier character. Just beacuse roy falls faster it does not mean he is heavier. It is also worse that he falls faster because it makes roy easier to combo.

As for falcon...

Falco would probably be his hardest match-up. You have to make sure to get those key dairs in so you can tech-chase the **** out of him. Upthrow into knee is a great killer and if he goes off the edge he shouldn't be able to get back on with proper edgeguarding.

Edit: Guido..that is not entirely true. Consider I was just playing with the best bowser and the best mewtwo in the world for 3 days at FC...Skill is so much more important then tiers. Taj as mewtwo took out an entire crew with only losing two stock. He beats pro fox's with mewtwo all the time. Gimpyfish also did very well. There are exceptions. For the most part though tiers hold true. But the better player will win if they are well practiced in their character no matter who they are using. Tiers just show who would win on the same level of skill.