Infinity and our Existence

[rebelrunner26]

Originally Posted by devonin

Though I disagree with your assertion that religion is an answer for people with weak minds. People need to stop thinking of religion (especially western religion) as being -just- about creationism and leaps of faith.

Don't underestimate the usefulness of a positive moral code on society either. Some of the most kind, compassionate people I've ever met have been devoutly religious people.

sorry about the double post, but i wanted to point out that America was founded as "one nation under god" by a group of brilliant minds and the laws were based on basic morals which can be traced back to the bible (thou shalt not kill) (thou shalt not steal) etc.

[Kilroy_x]

You realize that words "regarded" and "well-established" thrown in there negate the entire distinction you are trying to make?

Also, the opposite of asdkasdfh is nkrmnqwkn. Take my word for it.

[Kilroy_x]

Originally Posted by rebelrunner26

sorry about the double post, but i wanted to point out that America was founded as "one nation under god" by a group of brilliant minds and the laws were based on basic morals which can be traced back to the bible (thou shalt not kill) (thou shalt not steal) etc.

Intelligence is not a basis for morality.

Anyways, even if you were correct about the specific morals in question being traceable to the bible, the bible can also be traceable to mechanisms of biological evolution. Check. Mate.

[rebelrunner26]

Originally Posted by Kilroy_x

Intelligence is not a basis for morality.

Anyways, even if you were correct about the specific morals in question being traceable to the bible, the bible can also be traceable to mechanisms of biological evolution. Check. Mate.

I wasn't trying to imply that it is. I was just pointing out that there are people with strong minds that also strongly support religion.

Also, the founding fathers were christian, therefore their laws are traceable to the bible.

I see what you're saying, but that can be interpreted in more than one way (i.e. things in other species sometimes kill another member of said species without repercussions) so as far as check mate, i don't think so...not yet anyway

[Kilroy_x]

Originally Posted by rebelrunner26

Also, the founding fathers were christian, therefore their laws are traceable to the bible.

There are many different types of Christian. Suffice it to say the founding fathers can really only be called deists. Some of them leaned towards agnosticism. "I approach death with neither hope nor fear". Sound familiar?

I see what you're saying, but that can be interpreted in more than one way (i.e. things in other species sometimes kill another member of said species without repercussions) so as far as check mate, i don't think so...not yet anyway

I don't think you do understand. Human beings kill each other more than almost any other species. The point is that the Bible sprang out of a set of biological processes to which we can attribute your form of morality, the Bible did NOT create or serve as the basis for morality, even the specific form of morality expressed in it.

[devonin]

Actually, several of the key founding fathers were avowedly deists. That lends an entirely seperate flavour to a lot of things.

[rebelrunner26]

Originally Posted by Kilroy_x

There are many different types of Christian. Suffice it to say the founding fathers can really only be called deists. Some of them leaned towards agnosticism. "I approach death with neither hope nor fear". Sound familiar?

I don't think you do understand. Human beings kill each other more than almost any other species. The point is that the Bible sprang out of a set of biological processes to which we can attribute your form of morality, the Bible did NOT create or serve as the basis for morality, even the specific form of morality expressed in it.

I'm not sure i believe that one. And also, while the bible did not create morality, it was one of the earlier texts that served as a law that put those principles into writing.

[Kilroy_x]

Originally Posted by rebelrunner26

I'm not sure i believe that one.

Why? The claim is found almost universally throughout behavioral science literature.

And also, while the bible did not create morality, it was one of the earlier texts that served as a law that put those principles into writing.

So? Fish were an earlier creature that served to put vertebrates into the animal population. Divergence has since occurred. I like being a mammal.

[rebelrunner26]

well, it depends on what you're calling "more than almost any other species." if you're including insects in this, there are quite a few.

and as far as your fish point...i'm not really sure what you're trying to say. all i was trying to say is that the bible was one of the first written laws for a large quantity of people

[Kilroy_x]

Originally Posted by rebelrunner26

if you're including insects in this, there are quite a few.

Right, insects represent a large exception. However insect aggression is usually tied to sexuality, whereas the basis of human aggression is still debated.

and as far as your fish point...i'm not really sure what you're trying to say. all i was trying to say is that the bible was one of the first written laws for a large quantity of people

I'm saying that your nostalgia doesn't bode as well for morality as you seemed to think.

[rebelrunner26]

hmm...ok. let me rephrase a bit. the bible =/= morality, which is what you're trying to prove to me, right? i agree. but the bible does present a moral code which was seen as the absolute law by many people for a long period of time, and still by some today. these morals were also presented through other texts (as in, other than christian texts), but these morals are still being applied to today's laws across the globe, regardless of if they came from the bible or another text or set of laws. earlier i was just using the bible and the u.s. as an example, but i do realize that it is different in other cultures.

[Kilroy_x]

OK then. You recognize that the Bible was a product of moral thought rather than the other way around, right? In that case, you can't say that the Non-Christian texts are reducible to Biblical ideals, because it is actually the case that both Biblical thinking and other moral thinking share a common ancestry independent of both Christian and specific other texts.

The same thinking explains why we can look at the Codes of Hammurabi as marking the beginnings of legal thinking and of the rule of law, but we don't have to attribute all legal systems to Hammurabi, or even consider the codes to be morally correct.

[rebelrunner26]

agreed.

[GuidoHunter]

Originally Posted by Kilroy_x

Right, insects represent a large exception. However insect aggression is usually tied to sexuality, whereas the basis of human aggression is still debated.

I believe ants and apes (maybe just chimpanzees, but I'll cover all bases in case) are the only species besides humans that engage in warfare (as coalitional intraspecific aggression). If other insects participate in such behavior, it's a rarity.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[rebelrunner26]

i've heard that too...but we were just referring to killing in general, like eating mates and what not

[seltivo]

What does ants killing each other have to do with infinity and our existence?
If you want to talk about the behavior of animals, make another thread. :P

[Kilroy_x]

It has to do with the "our existence" part.

[seltivo]

o haha...


(sry for pointless post)

[dvann]

No Matter How Large Or Small A Number It Is Still A Percentage Of Infinity Like 1 That Is Pratically Zero But It Not So Even Thought Infinty Is The Higest Number In The Univers Ecery Other Number Has A Above Zero Precentage Except For Zero.

[gnr61]

Let Me Explain To You What You Are Saying If A Number Is A Percentage Of Infinity It Is A Fraction Of Infinity Which Implies That It Can Be Multiplied By Something To Equal Infinity Which Defies Some Basic Laws Of Mathematics.