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Old 06-8-2007, 09:49 AM   #11
Reach
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Default Re: Infinity and our Existence

Quote:
I would like to point out, simply as a very interesting thought, that even though the universe seems huge, the only observations we have of it are of the visible universe, limited in size by the speed of light
Well, yes. We're now actually pretty sure the visible universe is significantly larger than simply the age multiplied by the speed of light though, because of inflation. But yes there could be any amount of 'space' outside of what we can see right now.

Quote:
Yes, the universe is still expanding but have we charted the end of the universe? I'm not sure how far into Space NASA has seen with powerful telescopes and satellites but until theres some sort of proof to the "end of space" its easier to think of space as infinite

Also, since the universe IS expanding, i can see where its easy to think there must be parameters but think about this.
You don't need to chart the end of the universe. If something is expanding quantifiably, by definition it is not infinite. It's as simple as that. Why? Unless the rate of expansion is infinity, the universe will always have a measurable, finite size if it is expanding quantifiably.

But uh, either way I think WMAP can see the whole universe using old light. It is generally understood that the universe is finite but has no physical boundary. That is, you are never going to get to somewhere and hit a wall or see the end of space. It doesn't work that way...think of it like earth where you'll just keep going around and around. The difference here being up into the sky is another dimension we're incapable of perceiving, and thus cannot leave the universe.

To imagine this you have to put yourself in the higher dimension. We are like stick figures drawn onto a paper ball. We don't have the spatial capacity to leave the paper ball, yet although the ball appears two dimensional to us, it is actually three dimensional.



Quote:
Think of the universe as a balloon. It starts out as a little dot and constantly grows larger and larger. But think that the balloon can expand to infinity. Although it may look like theres parameters to the universe, it still seems to expand and get bigger. Wouldnt this make the Universe infinite?
The problem here is you can't expand to infinity, so no this wouldn't make the balloon infinite. If you can measure the space inside the balloon at any given time, it is not infinite. In order for the balloon to be infinite it would have to reach a state of infinitely fast expansion.

And uh, that would destroy the universe so it's out of the question It is a rather well known problem for us now, that in around 50 billion years or so the universe is going to be expanding far too fast for energy to maintain the state we know it as. Thankfully we won't be around for the universal annihilation though ;o
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