MapleStory

[banditcom]

Bishops really only need Genesis to level 10.

The mp cost for Genesis is the broken part. MP cost for the mage skills fits: if you want to spam, it's gonna cost an assload. That's how it should be for Bishops.

Arch Mage's 4th job AOE: VERY costly.
Dragon Knight's 3rd job AOE: Slow, stuns you, not very strong, costly.
Paladin's 4th job AOE: Doesn't kill monsters (leaves 1 hp), cooldown at level 30 is 100 seconds.
Bishop's 4th job AOE: Elementally strong against best experience in the game... Oh wait, that's an advantage.

Yeah uhh lol... It needs to be double the cost.

[Mythiqudame]

Alright, so um..I downloaded Parts 1-20 and then I opened Part 1 and hit 'Install'

After the screen that says 'Extracting..' and it finishes it says 'Unexpected end of archive' in between Parts 4 and 5, Parts 11-12, and Parts 12-13.

I don't know what happened but it still won't install.

Any help?

[Necamus]

Might want to try redownloading 4, 5, 11, 12, and 13.

[evilbutterfly]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

But, think of it this way:

SR has base 157.5 against holy weak. It hits up to 6 targets. It's minimum power is 157.5 and it's maximum power totaled is 945. This Holy Arrow v2 has 240 base always. I'd only have to be hitting 2 monsters at once for SR to deal greater damage.

No, it's 240 base against neutrals. That's 360 base against holy-weak, which is more than double SR's base. SR is also about half as fast, meaning you'd have to hit 5-6 monsters for SR to be worthwhile. ALSO, keep in mind that you'll be fighting skelegons, so you'll probably be fighting with MG on (massive damage and ER does nothing to them). Skelegons don't have as much range as magicians, I don't think (at least the graphic for their attack isn't that long, maybe it hits farther than it looks), so constant KB from that arrow skill would be quite useful if you want to save money. Then again, friggin giant AoE skill would be a better bet anyway.

And Chris, really, nobody would've complained if Bishops never got the full screen AoE to begin with. If they had gotten decent buffs and things in 4th job instead and only mages got the full screen attacks, people would be happier. As it is, I see a lot of priests saying they would've quit if bishops weren't strong. Well then why the **** did you choose the weakest class in the game? -__- Honestly, I think Nexon really botched 4th job. They botched a lot of things in MS, really. Like the defense system. And the fact that every job has at least one completely useless skill (yeah lemme get shield mastery that's useful!).

People on SW, when it's said that bishops should have better support skills, show how uncreative they are by saying "well all the useful buffs are already taken, what more could they get?" These are the same people who came up with "double strafe, shoot 8 arrows that do 200% damage!!" when asked for cool 4th job skill ideas. Morons. Maple Hero should be Bishop-only. Reflection could possibly be a group buff that actually works like Power Guard but for magic (unlike the crappy way it works now). Or hell, buff mastery or a buff buff (something that makes any buffs active on somebody last some % longer and provide some % more of an effect). There are plenty of things they could've given bishops for support that would've made them more unique and EXTREMELY useful. I'm sure if priests could cast Reflection on an entire party at bosses and they were the only source for 10% more of each main stat they'd be sought after even moreso than they are for Holy Symbol.

But now that Nexon has given bishops a taste of power, if they were to take it away (like they really ought to, honestly), it'd just piss people off. I wish I worked for Nexon, cuz I have plenty of things that would make much better skills than what they've come up with.

Also, btw, the mage AoE skills barely overpower the bishop one against fire or ice-weak monsters. Observe the stats for each skill maxed:

Genesis vs skelegons = 1005
Blizzard/Meteo vs skelegons (with amp) = 769.5
Blizzard/Meteo vs lower exp things that are ice/fire weak = 1154.25

In the end, that 150 extra base damage probably won't make the difference between 2 and 1 hitting things. There will also be a lot of overkill, simple because it's one strong hit. Personally, I'll leave Meteo at level 1 and only use it in instances where plowing through crowds casting Mist would be more expensive. And given that at level 1 it's still gonna cost me 4200mp (aka: more than maxed Genesis for a priest), I probably won't end up using it very much. Thankfully Paralyze/Ice Golem will save me a lot of money, or else I'd never get a chance to use Meteo whatsoever. I oughta have enough money saved up after many levels using Paralyze/Ice Golem to afford spamming maxed Meteo somewhere, but who knows. =\

EDIT: Jason, I saw you post about it on SW, but do you know where the 80% hp/mp pot is that's for sale from an NPC? I looked around stores in JMS and couldn't find one, but I wasn't sure what version had it and what World Tour place it'd be in. It'll be nice to know where it is once my cleric gets higher up there, cuz I bet it's cheap as hell for MP. That's another thing, any idea right off how much it sells for?

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by banditcom

Yeah uhh lol... It needs to be double the cost.

Costing 7k MP doesn't decrease spammability. All it does is increase pot usage cost by a bit. Just think... instead of using an elixir between each cast of Genesis, we'll be using a power elixir. What's the price difference between these? Not much.

Is that really all you want for this to be "balanced"? Have us spend a few more thousand mesos for every cast of the skill?

The problem, I would say, isn't that Bishops aren't wasting enough mesos to deal massive damage via spamming. The problem is that we can spam a skill which isn't intended to be spammed. A simple 7k MP cost won't stop anyone from spamming it if they would have spammed it at 3.5k MP cost. All it'll do is hit our cash supply a little harder.

And yes, I know that mage AoE is only a bit stronger with element advantage, but the point is that people bitch about Priests being able to spam for massive damage when mages can do the same thing.

And once again, 7k MP cost doesn't stop them from being able to spam. All it does is make them have to heal MP more often, which would probably just be using a power elixir (or possibly even a normal elixir if they have HB...). The only way to fix the MP cost to block spamming would be to make it IMPOSSIBLY high. Make it so high that it can only be used during Infinite Mana... that's the only way to unbreak it in my opinion. Anything else would remove the entire purpose of the skill, or pervert it in attempt to fix it, but would really just skew it slightly in the direction of balanced.

EDIT: ok let me put it this way:

Let's say for the sake of arguement that the skill is to cost 100% of MP (there is no way it could be higher cost than this, unless you go with what I said above). All that this would do is the magician would cast their AoE, then immediately use a power elixir. They'd still be dealing the same damage per second as if the skill only cost 1 MP. My understanding was that the problem was with MASSIVE damage per second possible, not from the fact that it doesn't make for much mesos cost.

Ok, if Meso Explosion exploded 5k bags just as well as 50k bags, would you be mad about it? If they have 5k bags, they're already simply dropping it, so it's not like it'd allow them to use the skill in new ways. What's the difference then? It costs the player more mesos. It doesn't allow them to deal greater damage it just costs them less mesos than would be otherwise. I feel it's the same kind of thing here. People seem to be mad that it doesn't cost much mesos when they should be mad that it deals so much damage.

EDIT: Noah, I don't care, if everything you have to say is true about the skill actually being worthwhile. HAv2 sucks.

[fido123]

Umm...Wikihow told me how to hack MapleStory to make my guy lv 99 or whatever the cap would be...do these people get caught then ip banned or somthing?

[ToshX]

If you make yourself the level cap, well, I want to see you ingame. I'll reward you with millions of mesos.

If you mean levelling up yourself with a hack such as a vac, well, some of them get banned. In fact, a lot of them do. Even if you're smart about it and never get seen, there's still a chance if you rank up too fast :/

[evilbutterfly]

Afro: My problem is that it makes mages useless. Bishops have everything mages have and more, pretty much. Pretty ****ing sad, since I've spent so long on my mage and will get so little but then Hevioso passed me without effort and will get so much. =(

In the end, though, the Genesis vs Meteo/Blizzard problem is a small issue I have with all of 4th job. Infinity is damn near worthless (worst duration/cooldown ratio ever). Reflection is damn near worthless (it should work like Power Guard and reduce damage but doesn't at all). Fire/Ice Demon are worthless (they shouldn't cancel out weaknesses, they don't work with our main attacks in 4th job). The summons take forever to attack. And there's even more stuff wrong with non-mages that pisses me off, too. It's embarrassing how badly they've half-asses 4th job. =\

[ToshX]

I know I'm really hypocritical to say this, and I can't even do this myself, but try not to base your character's class on others. I mean hey, we're "equal".

Okay, no we're not, but it really isn't that bad.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by evilbutterfly

Afro: My problem is that it makes mages useless. Bishops have everything mages have and more, pretty much. Pretty ****ing sad, since I've spent so long on my mage and will get so little but then Hevioso passed me without effort and will get so much. =(

It doesn't make you guys useless.

All it means is that for you to outdamage a Bishop, you'll need to spam your AoE just as much as they spam it. Honestly, the SLIGHT difference in pot cost of mage and bishop shouldn't be a factor... by choosing to max amp, you actively decided to use up 2x MP for a damage boost. And I don't blame you one bit, since every day I wish my Priest had amp, but I don't think you have any right to complain about how your skill costs a little bit more mesos to spam.

And don't think Priests don't have their own share of trouble, either. Look at things from my end. You can 2hk any monster in the game. You can deal more dps than any other class. You have a good AoE with decent range. You have booster and amp to kick it up a notch.

That said, once again, I really don't think the problem is that Bishops can spam it for cheaper than mages, but that BOTH MAGICIANS can SPAM IT PERIOD.

ps Tosh is right. Comparing yourself to other classes can only lead to you being disappointed about the shortcomings of your own class, even though the class you may idolize has it's own shortcomings. That is, except for hermit/sin who seem to only have the shortcoming of "costs a lot of money to fund well".

[DHS1]

Someone told me 4th job was coming out in two patches. =OOOooooooooo

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by DHS1

Someone told me 4th job was coming out in two patches. =OOOooooooooo

Yes, I'm so sure.

That would explain why we already have World Tour maps and both parts of Leafre.

Oh wait, we don't.

[evilbutterfly]

Chris, I'm not so mad that bishops get a totally overpowered skill, I'm mad that Nexon totally botched 4th job. Things were pretty balanced in 3rd job, I think, but 4th job is just too ridiculously imbalanced. There are so many things wrong with it, it's sad. I wish I worked for Nexon because 4th job would be much better. -___-

PS: Check out what I did last night LOL:











It can actually do over 5k, but it also dips into the low 3000s cuz of crap mastery. The fun thing is that now I can do that much damage to Cakes, since they're poison-weak. XD

And oddly, I wasn't wanting to put points in, but now that I've started I want to max it ASAP. Hopefully this gets me playing more... =O

PPS: Now I have enough MP to cast max Meteo. That didn't take long!

EDIT: Just did the math for fun, and if I get level 1 Meteo at 121 like I was planning, I'll be able to do 22,946 ~ 29,894 to 15 fire-weak monsters at once, for the low low cost of 4200 MP. D= If I maxed it at level 130, though, I'd be doing 43,967 ~ 56,799, just shy of enough to 1hk Grims. But level 1 would nearly be 2-hitting them anyway (especially if you take into account that I'll hopefully have a zhelm + pyogo by then), so why max it at all? I'll be leaving it at level 1 for a looong time.

I also just did some math on compo, and when I max it it'll only be 315~414 matk stronger than FA. =\

[Squeek]

ps guys balance is irrelevant because there is no pvp in maplestory

get over it

[ToshX]

Squeek, although I said otherwise a couple posts up, I'll be realistic and say that it doesn't seem fair that you can build your character near-perfectly and still be overpowered and outlevelled by someone of another class who screwed up.

[Squeek]

Welcome to MapleStory.

Oops, Assassins do way too much damage. Oops, so do Dragon Knights. Oops, Clerics level too fast.

Oh, and every other class pretty much sucks.

The game has been imbalanced from Day 1, folks. If you ever decide to take a poll on the number of people per class, I guarantee you'll find that Assassins and Spearmen are the top two. By far.

Regarding the Bishop skill: where were you two years ago? With MP Eater and MP regen, along with low costs of Heal, Clerics haven't used MP since the beginning of time. Ever since level 35 or so, my Cleric never used an MP potion in training.

[ToshX]

Yeah, but it wouldn't have to stay that way.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by ToshX

Squeek, although I said otherwise a couple posts up, I'll be realistic and say that it doesn't seem fair that you can build your character near-perfectly and still be overpowered and outlevelled by someone of another class who screwed up.

Yeah I especially liked that people 30 levels below me could deal more damage than me. I loved it so much, I decided to not even get an attack skill just so that those newbs can deal so much more damage even though my build isn't far from excellent.

Oh wait. That's not true. I hated being outdamaged by level 50s when I was level 80. And now that my SR is nearly maxed, I splooge myself everytime I cast it.

The classes are not balanced at all. Leveling speed isn't TOO FAR out of balance, but certain classes can deal much higher damage than other classes.

[ToshX]

Clerics could always hit more monsters for more damage than us per second :/

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by ToshX

Clerics could always hit more monsters for more damage than us per second :/

Heal has 30% mastery, only hits 5 enemies tops, does weaker damage for every additional enemy hit, and does comparatively weak damage even for max damage.

Maybe you're thinking of lit.

EDIT: ps

OH SHOOT I FORGOT TO EQUIP MY 2 INT SAUNA OH WELL YOU GET THE POINT