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Old 05-16-2007, 12:36 PM   #21
flamingspinach
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Default Re: Scientology

slipstrike0159, if you learn how to spell "atheist", maybe people will take you seriously. Then again you just claimed that satanism is worse than scientology :/
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:44 PM   #22
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Default Re: Scientology

First off, a simple typo of 2 letters in one word shouldnt make someone think less of anyone else.
Second, with the whole satanism thing i was just justifying my use of the religion in one of my first posts as grounds for saying there are religions that are just as crazy out there. I never said it was worse than scientology, i merely suggested that some of the ideas and basic foundation principles are pretty far out there.
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Old 05-16-2007, 07:08 PM   #23
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Default Re: Scientology

Ok. I'll try my best to be in this without introducing my own crazy ideas about religion. The government only discourages religious practices that present a "clear and present danger" to the public. Scientology is very crazy I will admit, but I don't want to oppose their beliefs. I oppose every religion as much as I believe it because everything has a chance unless clearly proven wrong. As long as scientologists as a whole, are not trying to create a "clear and present danger", I don't see what problems people would have with giving the Church of Scientology tax breaks. However, the wikipedia facts given by aperson showing that the Church of Scientology wanted revenge on the publication The Scandal of Scientology and that the Church attempted to infiltrate the United States Government makes this idea questionable. I guess it is also questionable to say that if we give them tax breaks, some of the scientologits might just stop trying to be theives or crooks.

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Old 05-17-2007, 10:06 AM   #24
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Default Re: Scientology

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstrike0159 View Post
Wow, sounds a lot like many of the athiests i know...

Also, it does have teachings that represent some of the things Lucifer suggests.

Is that not unlike how Lucifer wanted unrelenting perfection giving glory to man over God, as well as not providing a means of repentence or explanation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstrike0159 View Post
Wow, sounds a lot like many of the athiests i know...

Also, it does have teachings that represent some of the things Lucifer suggests.

Is that not unlike how Lucifer wanted unrelenting perfection giving glory to man over God, as well as not providing a means of repentence or explanation?

Wait... are you ****ing stupid? How does that sound like all athiests you know when athiests dont believe in ANY gods?
I really DO hope you know that.

To say some bull**** religion has something in common than with a group of people that in fact frowns down open religions with no logical or scientific explaination is ignorant.

Last edited by Sir_Thomas; 05-17-2007 at 10:32 AM.. Reason: Content
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Old 05-17-2007, 11:59 AM   #25
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Default Re: Scientology

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Originally Posted by Sir_Thomas View Post
Wait... are you ****ing stupid? How does that sound like all athiests you know when athiests dont believe in ANY gods?
I really DO hope you know that.

To say some bull**** religion has something in common than with a group of people that in fact frowns down open religions with no logical or scientific explaination is ignorant.
WOW dumb***, try reading my quote again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The Church of Satan draws its name from the mythological and cultural concepts of Satan. Satan stands as the central symbol for many different gods, including Ahriman, Loki, Set, Amon, and Belial, all seen as symbolic of the same ideals and archetype. The Church of Satan claims that every individual can be his or her own god and is responsible for his or her own destiny. (In their usage, "Satan" denotes a symbol and metaphor rather than a literal anthropomorphic deity.) People who follow this belief system are called "Satanists".
It doesnt say that they believe in any Gods, it describes how ideals of similar mythological Gods are the same in symbolism. Watch yourself next time you randomly through around the word ignorant. They are very similar in the fact that both of the two (atheism and the church of satan) have the concept that everything an individual does depends on him/herself with science being a major driving factor.

Also, learn to quote the right points you want to discuss. It will do you no good in an argument if you cant accurately show the faults in the other side. Unless of course you just love double quoting the same paragraph. =\
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Old 05-17-2007, 12:09 PM   #26
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Cool Re: Scientology

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Originally Posted by sherbtail View Post
Thats what kilroy was getting at, in reply to...

"but i do believe more in the science side of things than from a religious view"

I just watched that YTMND video, they're scary people, apparently the IRS was basically blackmailed into classifying them as a religion and giving them tax breaks. It makes me mad



hmm maybe...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/programmes/panorama/default.stm

and then click on "watch now"...obviously :P
it might not work if you live in the states...
ok well scientology, along with all other organized religions, are retarded.....but let me explain , the way I see religion, is it is just another way to control man through his/hers own fears of eternal suffering for example (not all religions say this), I beleive there is a god but us as man cannot comprehend him, we have ideas but there is no 1 truth that we know of. also about the IRS, our whole government as a whole is corrupt, but that is for a whole nother thread lol
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Old 05-17-2007, 01:00 PM   #27
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Default Re: Scientology

Thomas and slipstrike: cool it. Last warning.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com
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She has an asshole, in other pics you can see a diaper taped to her dead twin's back.
Sentences I thought I never would have to type.
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Old 05-17-2007, 01:19 PM   #28
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Default Re: Scientology

I think if you want to study scientology you have a right to. Just like if you want to study some odd religion.
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:26 PM   #29
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Default Re: Scientology

I don't see much relevance in the other religions listed on this thread. I just kind of seem interested in the fact that Satanists believe that every individual can be his or her own god and is responsible for his or her own destiny. Perhaps that is true because even if people knew there was a heaven or hell or anything with evidence for everyone, no one is really inclined to do what's right or wrong. Even if there is a god, I still believe it's possible to oppose them such as the ideas expressed in God of War (not that I believe too much that anyone would be successful at this). This ideas kind of depend on what a Satanist defines as a god. I don't see what this has much to do with scientology except that they are both considered religions by various people. Aside from that, I also like FyRe-AnT's idea that "there is no 1 truth that we know of". To me, this means that as a whole, society doesn't know answers to questions like whether there are ghosts or very complex questions that seem to have no answer. When some religions are ignorant of the unknown, in fact, try might use this to their advantage to "control man through his/hers own fears of eternal suffering". I would like to point out that not every single religion wants to do this though. Please don't call Atheists people who worship a "bull**** religion". I believe that there is a possibility that a god might loathe people who call others believers of a "bull**** religion" because if this god represents what most of society believes is rightous, it should allow atheists and scientologists to live (if they have obeyed what is righteous) because they believed in possible ideas. Plus, the main issue as described by sherbtail is if scientologists should recieve tax-breaks like other recognized religions. All I know is that if the rest of the recognized religions are allowed for tax-breaks, it would only be fair to give tax-breaks to Scientologists. The only exeption I believe there should be to my idea is that if any of the recognized religions or Scientologists are trying to cause a "clear and present danger" to society, then they shouldn't receive tax-breaks at all. The reason being is that if certain religions are presenting a "clear and present danger" to society, they are not protected by the Constitution and shouldn't receive any money. To me, what really matters is that by using the Constitution as it is, there would be nothing to constitutionally object to by giving tax-breaks to Scientologists.

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Old 05-22-2007, 02:32 AM   #30
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Default Re: Scientology

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstrike0159 View Post
You do realize that there is a church that worships satan right? I really dont think you could get 'scarier' than that. In any case i think it would be a joke for it to actually be considered a religion, i see it somewhat like being athiest which is more like an absence of religion and just a general outlook rather than a teaching.


That is somewhat scary, but then you have to realize, some people dont believe Satan to be this evil, fallen angel or whatever.
Im agnostic, i think religion is bull**** and just a way to have control of society.
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Old 05-22-2007, 07:19 PM   #31
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Default Re: Scientology

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstrike0159 View Post
You do realize that there is a church that worships satan right? I really dont think you could get 'scarier' than that.
I agree that the Church is nuts, but do you have any proof they worship Satan? From what I heard, they beleived that some being came from space, dropped people on our planet, nuked it, and the 'souls' stuck together, and are pretty pissed. (Again, I'm not Scientolgist, so I'm a bit sketchy; I think that's the general idea, anyways.

Though they want money, they seem to not talk about Christian dietys at all; sure that's not just something Christians say to scare people about Scientolgists?

They're still a crazy, money hungry cult, murderious cult though.

Though every major religion was at one time a cult, so, yeah. You never know. Scientology could very well be the next Christianity...if it makes people happy, then, good for them. I'd still never join it, though.
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Old 05-22-2007, 07:32 PM   #32
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Default Re: Scientology

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeissPraline View Post
I agree that the Church is nuts, but do you have any proof they worship Satan?
He wasn't saying the church of scientology worships satan. He was pointing out "If you think scientology is scary, there is a church that worships satan, I find that even -more- scary" Reading->Comprehension

Quote:
Though every major religion was at one time a cult
Going to have to disagree with you on that one, not on the grounds that I think there are religions that didn't start out as cults, but because drawing a distinction betwen them at all is fallacious.

'Cult' comes from the French culte, from Latin cultus which means "To care about, venerate or adore" and refers to all -kinds- of things that are, aren't or or not even associated with religions.

Religions are a -kind- of cult, linguistically. Just like health cults, cargo cults etc etc. Any time you are paying especial respect or veneration to some kind of something, that is technically cultish behavior (Cult of family even)
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Old 05-22-2007, 07:38 PM   #33
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Default Re: Scientology

My mistake. I read his post wrong. It's not that I didn't comprhend it, it's that I skipped over a word or two.

As for the cult thing, I'm not sure I understand why you disagree with me. I'm not saying religions are cult exculsive; I was saying that all major religions started off as a cult at one point and time.
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Old 05-22-2007, 07:44 PM   #34
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Default Re: Scientology

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeissPraline View Post
My mistake. I read his post wrong. It's not that I didn't comprhend it, it's that I skipped over a word or two.

As for the cult thing, I'm not sure I understand why you disagree with me. I'm not saying religions are cult exculsive; I was saying that all major religions started off as a cult at one point and time.
Let me try again then:

Religions didn't start off as cults.
Religions are a subset of cults.

All religions are cults by defintion.
All organisations to which you belong to which you show any kind of deep veneration or respect are technically cults, or at least cultish. Heck, going by the miriam-webster defintion of the word, there are diet plans that are technically cultish.

Cult as a perjorative is a fairly recent meaning, because "religions" (From the latin 'religio' meaning 'supernatural constraint' [Ooh interesting, there are those who link this in turn to 'ligare' (to tie or bind)]) wanted a means to distinguish the accepted "proper" faiths from upstart new ones.
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Old 05-22-2007, 07:46 PM   #35
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Default Re: Scientology

"Religions are a subset of cults."

:P Oh. You could have just said that point blank, instead of sugar coating it; much easier for those who are still in school. =D
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Old 05-22-2007, 07:53 PM   #36
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Default Re: Scientology

I guess using academic language is no good for people in school then? *grin*
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Old 05-22-2007, 07:56 PM   #37
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Default Re: Scientology

Oh, it is to an extent.

It's just the fact the way you word things confuses me at times. I'm a Freshman , so that may very will be why.

BUT. We're not here to discuss Weiss' proboblylowerthannormal intelect, we're here to discuss Scientology. =]
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Old 05-22-2007, 07:58 PM   #38
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Default Re: Scientology

People should be able to study Scientology but if it violates the law in anyway their obviously getting exactly what they deserve. However through their legal team this isn't always correct but you can't shut down a religion without getting major political problems or terrorism.

Also Satanism is mostly some whiny goth kids trying to be cool or some warped desensitized state of mind. However I do believe in some of their principles such as "Man is the same as any other creature" (With superior intellect).

Also to some people such as frey-ant, there is no solid proof for religion and if you only believed in that you should think 'are only the laws of science true but all else is myth?' because many things are not 100% proven such as is Francium an element or merely a faintly possible substance? I can understand you guys not believing in things such as Adam and Eve (which I don't believe in myself) but the odds are in Religious favor that there was a higher power that created this world.
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Old 05-22-2007, 08:01 PM   #39
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Default Re: Scientology

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Originally Posted by fido123 View Post
People should be able to study Scientology but if it violates the law in anyway their obviously getting exactly what they deserve. However through their legal team this isn't always correct but you can't shut down a religion without getting major political problems or terrorism.

Also Satanism is mostly some whiny goth kids trying to be cool or some warped desensitized state of mind. However I do believe in some of their principles such as "Man is the same as any other creature" (With superior intellect).

Also to some people such as frey-ant, there is no solid proof for religion and if you only believed in that you should think 'are only the laws of science true but all else is myth?' because many things are not 100% proven such as is Francium an element or merely a faintly possible substance? I can understand you guys not believing in things such as Adam and Eve (which I don't believe in myself) but the odds are in Religious favor that there was a higher power that created this world.
I agree with just about every word you said.
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