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Old 05-10-2007, 09:45 PM   #81
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

Thank you, devonin. I was debating whether to post that (I've written numerous essays on global warming, and I chose this one simply based on the politicized science section, which is something I think everyone should read.) Engler, I didn't just write it for the purposes of this thread anyway.

If anyone would like to discuss this topic more privately, send me a PM.

EDIT - I edited the formatting of my original post. Should I add subheadings?
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:19 AM   #82
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

I didn't read all of your essay, but I now know I don't have to because you used misleading and false information in your final paragraph>__>

Quote:
Carbon dioxide is a weak greenhouse gas. Methane is far more effective at trapping heat, and water vapor is the most important greenhouse gas.


Ok, water vapour is not the most important greenhouse gas.

The relationship between water vapour and temperature is not linear. More water vapour in the atmosphere strengthens the greenhouse effect, and meanwhile higher temperatures shift the balance between liquid water and water vapour due to evaporation. Water vapour on its own does not cause climate change, if anything it's an amplifier like CO2 that will only warm the planet significantly if there is something else being forced into the system for it to amplify.

Also, more water vapour is likely to mean more clouds, having a cooling effect.

It also doesn't matter whether or not CO2 is weak. Ants are weak but if you have an infestation of millions of them there is a problem.

Finally, about 20% of our greenhouse gas emissions is methane.

Quote:
carbon dioxide levels in the distant past have been far higher than today
I already mentioned this.

What you're failing to tell people is that the temperatures were also far higher in the distant past than today.
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Old 05-11-2007, 11:07 AM   #83
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

Global warming is very real, I didn't get any snow till febuary (usualy I get about 3 feet by december). The only reason there is debate over wheather it is real or not is because all the people in power (including the govornement)are denying it. Why would they do something like that? you might ask. The answer is very simple; they will lose money.

just a quick question.
if humans aren't causin global warming, what is?
what else on this planet has the power to change the consistancy of the earths' atmosphere?

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Old 05-11-2007, 12:37 PM   #84
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

Global Warming does exist but I believe at this point there isnt a way for society to agree it should stop because no one has the will to go without a little leisure for something to work at a world wide scale.
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Old 05-11-2007, 04:48 PM   #85
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

Quote:
Quote:
carbon dioxide levels in the distant past have been far higher than today
I already mentioned this.

What you're failing to tell people is that the temperatures were also far higher in the distant past than today.
I'm not failing to tell people this. I'm just saying that carbon dioxide levels have been far higher today. And temperatures were far higher.

I also said that this interglacial is less warm than others have been.

Also, termites produce more methane than people.

And about water vapor, higher temperatures mean more water vapor, so more clouds = more cooling? Actually, these effects are unclear.

Water vapor (according to most studies I've read) is responsible for approximately 70% of the greenhouse effect that keeps our planet in a survivable temperature range.
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Old 05-11-2007, 05:00 PM   #86
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

you should all just go watch "an inconvenient truth".



no really, you should, its an awsome documentary.
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Old 05-11-2007, 05:20 PM   #87
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

And one that has already been discussed multiple times, the problems with it as a very biased view expressed, and counter documentaries also brought up and discussed.
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Old 05-11-2007, 08:01 PM   #88
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

skimmed a bit of that essay... it makes a lot of unsourced statements and leaves a lot of unspoken premises unsubstantiated. For example, in the paragraph on the composition of the atmosphere, the argument is made that because carbon dioxide makes up such a small portion of the gases in the atmosphere, it could not contribute to global warming, thus the argument that it does is incorrect. The unspoken premise here is that somehow the percentage must be very high for it to have an effect, yet no evidence is cited in support of this. (in fact, if you want to see what happens when methane and CO2 do compose the majority of an atmosphere take a look at Venus where average surface temperatures have been estimated I think somewhere around 800 degrees).
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Old 05-11-2007, 08:08 PM   #89
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

It's as real as this girl next to me.................................
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Old 05-11-2007, 08:52 PM   #90
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seltivo View Post
Global warming is very real, I didn't get any snow till febuary (usualy I get about 3 feet by december). The only reason there is debate over wheather it is real or not is because all the people in power (including the govornement)are denying it. Why would they do something like that? you might ask. The answer is very simple; they will lose money.

just a quick question.
if humans aren't causin global warming, what is?
what else on this planet has the power to change the consistancy of the earths' atmosphere?
It could be the sun! But noooOOOoo, I need to find a different source for my claim before I can say anything.

Your weather is because of a Nina/Nino.

~Tsugomaru
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Old 05-11-2007, 09:08 PM   #91
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by talisman View Post
skimmed a bit of that essay... it makes a lot of unsourced statements and leaves a lot of unspoken premises unsubstantiated. For example, in the paragraph on the composition of the atmosphere, the argument is made that because carbon dioxide makes up such a small portion of the gases in the atmosphere, it could not contribute to global warming, thus the argument that it does is incorrect. The unspoken premise here is that somehow the percentage must be very high for it to have an effect, yet no evidence is cited in support of this. (in fact, if you want to see what happens when methane and CO2 do compose the majority of an atmosphere take a look at Venus where average surface temperatures have been estimated I think somewhere around 800 degrees).
I was actually just saying how little carbon dioxide is actually in the atmosphere, not claiming that it does not contribute to warming. I never said that global warming isn't happening, just that temperature data is not as reliable as people take it for granted to be, and that there are many other factors affecting global warming besides carbon dioxide content. Read the paragraph about the urban heat island effect for more information (it's the one that quotes the case study about Vienna).



Quote:
Originally Posted by seltivo View Post
Global warming is very real, I didn't get any snow till febuary (usualy I get about 3 feet by december). The only reason there is debate over wheather it is real or not is because all the people in power (including the govornement)are denying it. Why would they do something like that? you might ask. The answer is very simple; they will lose money.

just a quick question.
if humans aren't causin global warming, what is?
what else on this planet has the power to change the consistancy of the earths' atmosphere?
To answer your questions: Many scientists point to SAM (the southern hemisphere annual mode) as a source for the warming around the edges of Antarctica. Also, solar radiation is a big cause of warming versus cooling. On top of this, most of the greenhouse effect is caused by water vapor, which humans have relatively little effect on. Basically, the atmosphere and solar patterns are what cause global warming. Humans have a relatively small impact on the atmosphere, but a huge impact on the biosphere, and it is this that is one of the main human inputs to global warming (deforestation, fossil fuels burning, etc).
To cite an example, the melting of glaciers at Mt. Kilimanjaro (which is not related to global warming, but is related to relative area warming...saying that one city or one part of the world is getting warmer is not acceptable proof of a global phenomenon, see my essay) is due to deforestation at the base of the mountain (as a result, the air flowing up the mountain is no longer cool and moist).

The composition of the Earth's atmosphere has been changing in extents far more severe than it is now before humans ever walked the earth.

Please at least do some small amount of research and read the other posts in the thread before making your arguments, as otherwise you don't contribute anything to the thread.
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Old 05-11-2007, 09:15 PM   #92
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

The sad beauty of this debate is, even if someone had an answer, next to nothing can be done to curb it. If we started tomorrow and cut our co2 output down, and stopped all other contributions, other countries would certainly not, and in fact continue to grow.

Past the debate on who should start this or that, even if everyone was able to go to zero, likely we would take generations to undo what we have done.

So in a way, save your $ though conservative means. Spend less on gas, less on energy and plan for the future. If that includes severe climate change ... think about it Don't buy a ocean front or water front house in the next 15 or so years

Hows that for a bleak outlook?
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Old 05-11-2007, 09:26 PM   #93
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

JasonKey, I don't think anyone is seriously expecting sea levels to rise that much in the next 15 years =)
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Old 05-11-2007, 09:34 PM   #94
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

so what is the point of bringing up temperature measurement reliability in a thread on global warming if you agree that global warming is occurring?

and jason, the entire european union disagrees with you on the "other nations" part.
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Old 05-11-2007, 09:37 PM   #95
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

Talisman, what is the point of relegating temperature data disparages to the waysides? My point is that nobody really knows about the extent of global warming, nor does anybody really know what percentage of global warming is caused by man. With incomplete data comes rash decisions. Please read the last third of my essay, the part about politicized science.
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Old 05-12-2007, 12:48 AM   #96
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

That obscures the more important point that A) global warming is occurring and B) it is due to human causes.
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Old 05-12-2007, 03:57 AM   #97
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

Except, to what extent? And what exactly needs to be done?
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Old 05-12-2007, 03:56 PM   #98
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

It's fairly clear what must be done (reduce amount of CO2 in atmosphere). Questions do surround the best way to do it.

The extent as near as I can recall is a projected temperature increase between like 1.1 and 6.4 degrees celcius over the next century.

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Old 05-12-2007, 09:10 PM   #99
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

Look! Reguardless of whether global warming is natural or not, people need to support our environment. Whatever we do for the world is bound to be better than what we don't do! Get that through your minds. We need to save the world so we can enjoy and learn more (trust me, I don't mean being forced to study in school, but for people to make new technology and discover things like if ghosts exist or not). I believe that the humans have a reason for living, but that it hasn't been revealed to us yet. I refuse to let human religions substitute this idea for a purpose. Humans don't make this purpose and I know it! Some expect a higher authority to make this purpose (a god) yet they claim to know everything about the god. To those people who think the world is going to end or if their crazy beliefs come between saving the environment, would the god you dearly believe is so righteous destroy the very humans who tried to save an environment? I don't believe in one god, I believe in all possibilities in life such as one god, many gods, no gods, or any other possibilities. If there really is no purpose for humans, atleast live for as long as you can and have as much fun as possible. I want to be able to live forever (I strongly believe that is possible) and not have our world destroyed. If you must be bad in your life because it is what you have the most fun being, be my guest because I can't make you have fun being good, but I will hunt you down like an eagle and burn you if you try to destroy our world! Also reguardless of if global warming is caused by humans or not, JUST TRY TO HELP THE WORLD AND FIND SOLUTIONS I BEG YOU! That's all that matters! Not the data on who caused the warming.

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Old 05-12-2007, 10:32 PM   #100
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Default Re: Global Warming:Real or Fake?

Explain to me how you brought religion into this?

I mean, I know that this is just another antireligion rant, but I'm really curious as to how you might even justify this.

EDIT: when you come back in three days, of course.

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