Homosexual Marriage

[Lamoc]

Originally Posted by u84

Wrong. You are not born gay. God made everyone without sin, and then we became sinful afterwards. Gayness is a sin to the Lord and he would not make anything in sin. The Bible says that God made man in his own image, so if God looks down on gayness and isn't gay, then he did not make anyone to be gay. People who are gay turn gay later in life.

What the hell? Because of Adam and Eve we're all born sinners. I even know that. Most people ARE born gay, they just don't realize it till later in thier lives. Some people are born gay immediately. Never having love the the opposite sex. You were a sinner when you were born to.

[psychopete]

Originally Posted by u84

Ok, you are acting in sever ignorance. One, I believe what The Bible says because it was not man who wrote it, but God who wrote it through men. And it really doesn't matter if you went and read every book on every religion.
If you read The Bible and actually understood it, then you would have read that gayness is a sin in the eyes of God.


[Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcowgod View Post
If you are born gay, being gay wouldn't defy God.

Wrong. You are not born gay. God made everyone without sin, and then we became sinful afterwards. Gayness is a sin to the Lord and he would not make anything in sin. The Bible says that God made man in his own image, so if God looks down on gayness and isn't gay, then he did not make anyone to be gay. People who are gay turn gay later in life.

Uuuuumm, yeah, you are. And besides, God is a genderless, heritageless entity, or so they say.

Enough religious hoo-ha. This is Critical Thinking, not LET'S TRY AND MAKE HOMOSEXUALITY WRONG

[seththelezzy]

Marriage/Sex is a sacred thing that should be shared between a man and a woman. If the homosexuals don't mind going to hell, and no drunken gay men eye me from across the bar, then I would say that they should be able to marry. But they have to realize that what they are doing is a sin and they would sacrifice their worldly love for their life of eternity in Heaven.

EDIT: That didn't come out the way that I was planning it to.

I think that when males lack a masculine role model (stepfather, father, brother, etc.) they start turning feminine. This continues and just build up until they just like the opposite sex. It is the same for females, but with mothers, etc.
I also think that the Christian academies that try to have the gay taken out of people are wrong. This just denies them their right of what they want, even if it means going against their religion.

[soulofcerberus]

Originally Posted by seththelezzy

I think that when males lack a masculine role model (stepfather, father, brother, etc.) they start turning feminine.

I don't know if you haven't realized it, but just because a guy is gay doesn't necessarily mean that he's feminine.

[u84]

No, you are not born gay. True, you are born into sin, but you are not born gay. And God is a man, otherwise it wouldn't come straight from The Bible that he m ade man in HIS OWN IMAGE. And saying to someone "Go be gay!" is asinine, so I'm not even going to respond to that.

[psychopete]

Originally Posted by u84

No, you are not born gay. True, you are born into sin, but you are not born gay. And God is a man, otherwise it wouldn't come straight from The Bible that he made man in HIS OWN IMAGE. And saying to someone "Go be gay!" is asinine, so I'm not even going to respond to that.

1) Go to your User CP and put that sig IN YOUR SIG.
2) Gays don't find out that they're gay until later in life or they know it right off the bat. I always thought I just liked women for personality, but I couldn't ever love a woman (bad experiences, don't ask). And I've always been attracted to guys, before I thought I was just bi.
3) GET RELIGION OUT OF MY POLITICS, IT IS NOT THE NEW REESE'S PEANUT BUTTER CUP.

[devonin]

Ok, you are acting in sever ignorance. One, I believe what The Bible says because it was not man who wrote it, but God who wrote it through men. And it really doesn't matter if you went and read every book on every religion.
If you read The Bible and actually understood it, then you would have read that gayness is a sin in the eyes of God.

You believe that God wrote it through Men, though you have no actual proof to support that assertion. You have faith that it is so, because your faith is based upon the necessary idea that the bible is divinely inspired. If it were simply written by fallible men, even with the best of intentions, it could be wrong, so you -must- believe that it was divinely inspired, or one of the prime bases of your faith is called into question.

I fail to see how merely pointing that out puts me in a severe state of ignorance.

To address directly: I have read and understood the bible, and so I understand that the bible -says- (And honestly, by 'says' I still mean 'can be interpreted as saying') homosexuality is a sin, but just because it says so doesn't mean I just believe it wantonly. Nothing in my beliefs requires me to believe in something as true without proof, so I am under no obligation to believe with no proof the things you are obligated to believe with no proof.

I don't even know why I try to do this any more, but I'm going to point out -again- that this thread is not about the religious right-and-wrong of homosexual marriage. We can pretty much all agree that in the prime religion of the United States, a very large majority of people who follow that religion believe that homosexuality is a sin, and would at least oppose any attempt to oblige religions to recognise gays as married.

However, we are not talking about the religious sacrament of marriage, we are talking about the secular legal status of 'married' and its effects on taxes, pensions, income, and inheritance rights, and whether those ought to be extended to any pair of humans that would like to have them.

[stretchypanda]

K, guys, don't forget. This is critical thinking. Unreasonable, un-backed-up ignorant comments will NOT be tolerated. Darksamus has a two-week ban, and I will not hesitate to ban anyone else throwing out idiotic insults.

[Draigun]

Forgive me, as this post will mostly be about the religion portion instead of the political. I didn't find it necessary to completely create a new thread just for this post, though.

================================

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

Wrong again.

Really, now? Religion might not cause wars, but it does cause quite the controversy.

================================

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

Christians have personal moral obligations to try to prevent their friends from going to hell. You know how if your friend is about to walk out in front of a train you would probably pull him back, saving his life? Yeah, same principle.

Then why aren't Christians so focused on millions of people sworn to other religions? These people have probably never been baptized, don't believe that Jesus died on the cross for their sins, and have probably never asked for forgiveness, and you're just going to allow them all to go to hell?

This is why I've never understood religion. There are so many different religions, each with their "sacred book", "sacred laws", and "sacred past". Which one is right?

================================

I'm a ***. I support gay marriage, but I could care less either way. I'm just happy that I can freely express who I am without the fear of being hanged or thrown in prison for life. Sure, there are plenty of benefits of legal marriage (including a joint adoption, since it's the only way we'll have children), but I could live without those benefits as finding someone I truly love is all I need. Society is learning to live with a homosexual population and that's damn awesome.

(I'm not too good at Critical Thinking, so forgive me if my post is terrible.)

[Lamoc]

Theres nothing wrong with being homosexual. Me and most of my friends are and theres nothing wrong with that. Everyones so closed minded. It's just how you are. You can't realy control it. People say if your gay you have to turn straight again. You can't. If you love a certain sex or a certain person, you can't force yourself to like someting else. I guess you can FORCE yourself to but it wouldn't seem right to you. It's wrong.

[Draigun]

Well, on the topic of whether or not you "choose" to be homosexual.

I honestly never did "choose" to be gay. From as far back as I can remember (5th grade or so), I'd have those "girlfriends" that we all had at that age, but I never thought seriously of it. At this point, I didn't even know what homosexuality was, it just didn't feel right being with a girl. As I entered middle school and beyond, I realized just how stale these "relationships" came to be, and realized just how much a male/female bond wasn't working out for me.

If the main purpose of human progression is to reproduce then either way, I'm ****ed. No matter how much I try, I just can't "get it up" for any girl I see, nor do I feel I'd be able to enter a relationship with one.

*EDIT: I mean, I can see from Guido's standpoint why he wouldn't believe that a homosexual does not choose his/her sexual orientation because he's never experienced being part of the homosexual minority. I will never truly know how degrading being forced to slavery is because I've never experienced it. I will never know the true impact of antifeminism because I, myself, am a male. If you've never experienced it, then you don't really have an adequate say on how that person or persons acts/feels.

I'd also like to add that I grew up in a single-parent relationship, living with my mother who does not have strong Christian beliefs. I do believe that your surroundings tend to affect your personality and life choices, so that only further concludes why I don't believe that it's a choice. (And it seems as I was in the process of posting this, Chrissi got to it, first. *high-five*)

[Chrissi]

I'd like to comment on the "born gay" thing.

People seem to present a false dichotomy on being gay: either you were born gay and thus it wasn't a choice, or you develop gayness later on in life and it was by choice. I am pretty sure almost nobody CHOOSES to be gay. Also, I don't think there is any "gay" gene.

I'd like to say that there is a lot of evidence for social situations being the cause of people being gay. It doesn't mean it's their fault, or that it was a choice. It just means that being gay is something that presents itself as a manifestation of one's general preference and social situation.

Think of it like this: Did a person who likes video games choose to like video games? No. Were they BORN liking video games? Probably not. So they didn't choose it and they weren't born with it. They just do. It's just them. And that's the way I view gays. It's a cultural, social, personal phenomenon, not a choice nor an inborn trait.

[hayatewillown]

Originally Posted by Draigun

Well, on the topic of whether or not you "choose" to be homosexual.

I honestly never did "choose" to be gay. From as far back as I can remember (5th grade or so), I'd have those "girlfriends" that we all had at that age, but I never thought seriously of it. At this point, I didn't even know what homosexuality was, it just didn't feel right being with a girl. As I entered middle school and beyond, I realized just how stale these "relationships" came to be, and realized just how much a male/female bond wasn't working out for me.

If the main purpose of human progression is to reproduce then either way, I'm ****ed. No matter how much I try, I just can't "get it up" for any girl I see, nor do I feel I'd be able to enter a relationship with one.

*EDIT: I mean, I can see from Guido's standpoint why he wouldn't believe that a homosexual does not choose his/her sexual orientation because he's never experienced being part of the homosexual minority. I will never truly know how degrading being forced to slavery is because I've never experienced it. I will never know the true impact of antifeminism because I, myself, am a male. If you've never experienced it, then you don't really have an adequate say on how that person or persons acts/feels.

I'd also like to add that I grew up in a single-parent relationship, living with my mother who does not have strong Christian beliefs. I do believe that your surroundings tend to affect your personality and life choices, so that only further concludes why I don't believe that it's a choice. (And it seems as I was in the process of posting this, Chrissi got to it, first. *high-five*)

You couldn't get a girl because your lazy. Your not born gay, you choose. You were so lazy, you stopped trying to get a girl. The only choice was to be gay.

This is also proven in your statement " living with my mother ".
This is not cool. And yes, I know I shouldn't determin this, but did you think that you were really going to make it in the real word when you grew up? You need to work for what you want. Not be lazy.
"Ohh but I tried soo hard", BS!!!! Your a lazy freak!

[psychopete]

Originally Posted by hayatewillown

You couldn't get a girl because your lazy. Your not born gay, you choose. You were so lazy, you stopped trying to get a girl. The only choice was to be gay.

This is also proven in your statement " living with my mother ".
This is not cool. And yes, I know I shouldn't determin this, but did you think that you were really going to make it in the real word when you grew up? You need to work for what you want. Not be lazy.
"Ohh but I tried soo hard", BS!!!! Your a lazy freak!

Maybe he didn't find women attractive? It's not because of him CHOOSING to not find them sexually attractive. I, personally, am gay, despite having two (sorta) capable parents. I was raised just like everyone else, but in the end, I'm gay.

[soulofcerberus]

Originally Posted by hayatewillown

You couldn't get a girl because your lazy. Your not born gay, you choose. You were so lazy, you stopped trying to get a girl. The only choice was to be gay.

This is also proven in your statement " living with my mother ".
This is not cool. And yes, I know I shouldn't determin this, but did you think that you were really going to make it in the real word when you grew up? You need to work for what you want. Not be lazy.
"Ohh but I tried soo hard", BS!!!! Your a lazy freak!

I hardly find this appropriate for the critical thinking forum. Hopefully stretchy will agree if she swoops by this thread in all her magnificent splendor.

[Wootsicle]

I have absolutely nothing against gay marriage.. I think it's actually HILARIOUS that people CLAIM that being gay is against God's word? Says who? When did God come down to earth and say, "Don't be gay!"
It didn't happen, end of story.. One of the many ways that people used religion to make things the way they wanted. =/

[Chrissi]

Originally Posted by Wootsicle

I have absolutely nothing against gay marriage.. I think it's actually HILARIOUS that people CLAIM that being gay is against God's word? Says who? When did God come down to earth and say, "Don't be gay!"
It didn't happen, end of story.. One of the many ways that people used religion to make things the way they wanted. =/

Actually the reason they say that is because in the bible it says not to "lie with another man" as you do with a woman.

The bible does condemn homosexuality.

However, that's not saying much, as it also condemns just about everything else...

[MRTL_mrclean17]

Originally Posted by Chrissi

Actually the reason they say that is because in the bible it says not to "lie with another man" as you do with a woman.

The bible does condemn homosexuality.

However, that's not saying much, as it also condemns just about everything else...

Heh, the bible condemns heterosexuality as well.

[Chrissi]

Originally Posted by MRTL_mrclean17

Heh, the bible condemns heterosexuality as well.

Well, not really in the same way.

It does say that everything that touches a woman during her period must be burned, though.

[soulofcerberus]

It also condemns masturbation. So anybody here who brings in the Bible card better not have masturbated or else...