A new look on Religion

[Anticrombie0909]

Could religion be nothing more than an attempt to understand what we don't know? A quote from the book "Angels and Demons" put what I've been thinking about into words.

Originally Posted by Angels and Demons

...all questions were once spiritual. Since the beginning of time, spirituality and religion have been called on to fill in the gaps that science did not understand. The rising and setting of the sun was once attributed to Helios and a flaming chariot. Earthquakes and tidal waves were the wrath of Pseidon. Science has now proven those gods to be false idols. Soon all Gods will be proven to be false idols. Science has now provided answers to almost every question man can ask. There are only a few questions left, the esoteric ones. Where do we come from? What are we doing here? What is the meaning of life and the universe?

What do you think?

[makaveli121212]

I think the book is absolutely right, it is very logical and is nothing i havent heard before...but the thing about religion that is very appealing is that it gives people hope, and whether you believe in relgion or not you have to admit that is admirable and valuable...it wont go away ever, for that reason...people need hope and there is nothing else that can install that hope in people better than relgion, even in the most desperate of times...so i guess in the books analysis of the past he is right, but in its prediction of the future i strongly disagree...

[Specforces]

Religion is a beautiful way to keep the masses under control. It's also a great way to keep society from becoming overly decadant. Religion is a must have in society today. I agree with Makaveli on all points.

Specforces

[makaveli121212]

religion is perhaps the best form of brainwashing we have today...some of you psychology guys will agree with me here...i guess its a little off subject, but many people including me were required to go to religous ed ever since preschool almost...you never even have a chance to make up your own mind, and after years of religion being pounded into your head, you just have blind faith...plus your parents believe it, and at that age, your parents know all...i finally realized this fact not too long ago, and its pretty scarey to me...how many people would actually be religous if they hadnt been brainwashed by the church...now that i think about it, its an ingenius way to keep followers, but its also pretty sad that it has to be done...now that i see the truth for myself, i can finally voice my own opinions...for the record i really feel the church betrayed me, and i really second guess everything i have believed, but i still have time to think things over

sorry if thats a little off topic, but im not gonna make a new thread

[makaveli121212]

hey this is a good thread someone else respond

[RenmazuoGK]

I'd say the book is right. Religion was an answer to unanswerable things of the day. Now it's used to keep masses under control, and instill "morals." Without religion, who would give a second thought about killing or raping? It wouldn't be defined as something wrong

[Omeganitros]

Originally Posted by makaveli121212

religion is perhaps the best form of brainwashing we have today...

Agreed. Reading from my own prayer book can be creepy sometimes because it repeats many things many many times and we always say in that same monotone voice during service and stuff.

As far as religion and belief in what hasnt been proven by science...Its like luck. Whenever a test is being passed out in school that I didnt study for, I do a little personal prayer that I can correctly guess most of the answers without cheating. No matter how much research is done by science, there will always be a random luck factor that cant be proven or predicted, and that's where "God/Jesus/Buddah/Whatever You Believe In" comes in for me.

[alainbryden]

Makaveili 100percent of the way. The brainwashing comment is a little off though I beleive. I think some humans are so desperate for that sence of security/hope that they willingly and almost consciously, if not innately, are willing to submit to the lack of logic (something that is almost as much a part of our nature as the will to survive) in order to gain this security, especially those who have been thought it by the people who they have trusted their whole lives growing up (parents/guardian)

[makaveli121212]

well the book says all 'gods' will be done away with...do you agree with that...furthermore do you think religion can still exist without 'gods'

[alainbryden]

Religion cannot survive without something to give a sence of ultimate security. However that is delivered is not relavent, so long as it is partially convincing. The concept of god fills that very well - isn't necessarily the only method to convey the needed hope for salvation.

[Omeganitros]

Religions may die out, but there will always be faith in something.

[makaveli121212]

Originally Posted by alainbryden

Makaveili 100percent of the way. The brainwashing comment is a little off though I beleive. I think some humans are so desperate for that sence of security/hope that they willingly and almost consciously, if not innately, are willing to submit to the lack of logic (something that is almost as much a part of our nature as the will to survive) in order to gain this security, especially those who have been thought it by the people who they have trusted their whole lives growing up (parents/guardian)

i like that, very well said...bascially youre saying people are so desperate for hope that they will just believe...very true

The nonreligious cry out that raising kids to be religious is "brainwashing" them. But if that's true then aren't all forms of child-rearing "brainwashing"?

The nonreligious cry out that the religious are simply fools who hope without any basis for their hope...when still they themselves suffer for lack of hope.

The nonreligious fail to understand the power of faith - that it is possible to truly believe in something without incontrovertible scientific proof. The nonreligious fail to see the power this gives to the faithful.

I'm a faithful person. My faith and my God do wonderful things for me, and I will be happy to help my children come to understand it the best I can.

[Monoc]

Originally Posted by RenmazuoGK

I'd say the book is right. Religion was an answer to unanswerable things of the day. Now it's used to keep masses under control, and instill "morals." Without religion, who would give a second thought about killing or raping? It wouldn't be defined as something wrong

Umm, just because religious doctrine has moral values, doesn't mean that there were no morals before religion.
Anyways, all hell will not break loose if everyone turned athiest. Once ideals are injected into a culture (no matter how they were instilled), they won't dissappear because the original influence is gone. The Soviet Union is an example of a culture that took athiesm too far, but they still had a set of moral standards under which their society functioned.

Originally Posted by chardish

I'm a faithful person. My faith and my God do wonderful things for me, and I will be happy to help my children come to understand it the best I can.

I fully respect you and all people who embrace religion, but I don't think religious indoctrination should happen at such a young age. Children should reach the age where they can look around and ask themselves "Is this enough for me or am I missing something, some greater purpose that is driving the universe." While this is a loaded question for people of any age, I believe most kids will be able to make a judgement by age ten whether they want religion to be part of their lives.
Now just because I feel religion should not be instilled at a young age does not mean that I don't feel morals should be instilled at a young age. All the social benifits of religion can be reached without religion, religion is useful only for its spiritual benifits.

[RenmazuoGK]

Originally Posted by Monoc

Umm, just because religious doctrine has moral values, doesn't mean that there were no morals before religion.

You are right. What I meant to say was that there wouldn't be any clearly defined morals. People would have to get their own ideas of what was right and wrong, until other people step in and define morality for them. I generalized the whole issue too much, and it came across as something it wasn't meant to be.

[fusi0n]

so what's this 'new look' you are talking about?

[Laharl]

Originally Posted by chardish

The nonreligious cry out that raising kids to be religious is "brainwashing" them. But if that's true then aren't all forms of child-rearing "brainwashing"?

The nonreligious cry out that the religious are simply fools who hope without any basis for their hope...when still they themselves suffer for lack of hope.

The nonreligious fail to understand the power of faith - that it is possible to truly believe in something without incontrovertible scientific proof. The nonreligious fail to see the power this gives to the faithful.

I'm a faithful person. My faith and my God do wonderful things for me, and I will be happy to help my children come to understand it the best I can.

I agree here.

Another thing I'd like to add,

Most people that truly call themselves believers have gone and asked themself if that's what they truly believe. No "blind" faith at all. They go and question every tenet of their beliefs, and discover for themselves what they do and do not believe. I'd say the same is true for people that do not believe in God. They, too, reached whatever point they did by questioning what they do and do not believe.

[makaveli121212]

Originally Posted by chardish

The nonreligious cry out that raising kids to be religious is "brainwashing" them. But if that's true then aren't all forms of child-rearing "brainwashing"?

The nonreligious cry out that the religious are simply fools who hope without any basis for their hope...when still they themselves suffer for lack of hope.

The nonreligious fail to understand the power of faith - that it is possible to truly believe in something without incontrovertible scientific proof. The nonreligious fail to see the power this gives to the faithful.

I'm a faithful person. My faith and my God do wonderful things for me, and I will be happy to help my children come to understand it the best I can.

if youre attempting to discredit my statements know that i am a religous person, i have been at church every sunday for my whole life and in religous education my pre-high school years...it is brainwashing and that cant be argued...to tell a little kid that doesnt know any better that this is wrong and this is right and contionue to tell him so he cant make his own judgements is brainwashing

[Jam930]

I am a mormon.

My friends believe in God fully, and they give testimonies and cry and are so into God, read scriptures every day and go to church on sundays and go to church activities on wednesdays and it's crazy. They tell me to pray, and tell me he'll answer if i want it and i am left in the dust. i have never gotten anything from God as far as i know, i find everything they teach hard to believe and i just cant follow it. And i think it may be because i quit the church during my childhood and rejoined at about 13 yrs of age, which is about when you get out of sunday school. Possibly my friends have been brainwashed to the point where they believe all this completely and they believe everything they're saying in testimonies of God.

[Anonymous]

Hope this doesn't sound like a flame, but that isn't a new approach to religion at all. Take L. Ron Hubbard for example. He created the church of scientology and created his own idea of how humans came to earth. There are thousands of believers. In a thousand years, Scientlolgy could become the largest religion.


However, I feel a lot of us also have a religion we subscribe to, yet to refuse to admit it. The religion of science. The researchers are our clergy, and the mystery of the universe is there for us to solve. Keep giving them our money and our support, and they will eventually cure all ailments and answer all questions. If you don't think that's brainwashing, you're not looking at it from all perspectives.

There is no evidence that God does not exist. There is no evidence that says that Ra, the sun God, does not control our faith after we die. Religions come and go, and coincidentally, the religion promoted by the richest, most powerful countries in the world. First it was christianity, now it's secularism.