Just how valuable is a human life?

ultimategamer · 04-11-2004, 03:05 AM

alright, i recently got done watching an anime. one of its main themes i've thought about extensively and i couldn't come up with a solid moral (relative to me) answer.

Just how valuable is a human life? Lets say, theoretically, a group of terrorists hold a thousand people hostage, and demand that this random but innocent guy be killed or they'll kill the all hostages and you had to make the call. Yes, theres a chance they'll wuss out and won't it. Yes theres a chance the SWAT team will come in and save the day. But are you really willing to take that chance? What if the person they're demanding is a good friend of yours? your gf/bf/spouse? your father/mother? yourself? What if you raised the stakes to 10000 people? 1 million people? the world? Just how much value would you put on a someones life, based on a chance?

Logically, the best choice would be to kill that one person, and save the rest. It can't be too bad, right? However, knowing that theres only a chance of everyone actually dying, and when you bring up the stakes when it involves someone close to you is that most moral choice you can make? Is it worth taking the risk to save all those lives, or take the sure fire path and save everyone, but lose someone innocent and important to you.

Granted this type of situation will more than likely never happen to anyone, its still interesting to think as to what you would do. What does everyone think of it?

perfect_fat · 04-11-2004, 03:22 AM

To quote Dr. Spock

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

But I think that's an unfair anecdote to go along with your question. Look at the value we place on animals for example. We'll cut the beaks off chickens, we'll slaughter cows, pigs and the afforementioned fowl in droves, but the thought of killing a cat or a dog for food in north america is thought of as disgusting. Another example is our brazen slaughter of insects and "lower life forms" for our own enjoyment or comfort. I think we place little value on any life but our own and those very close to us, or our idols. I need some ridalin.

ultimategamer · 04-11-2004, 03:32 AM

I would have to disagree with Spock on that one. If that was the case minorities across america would never have a say in anything. Personally i think thats wrong.

The later part of the text is part cultural, part survival. Much like in India where the slaughter of cows is unthinkable, here killing dogs/cats is horrid. Also we kill cows/pigs/fowls for food, which is needed for suvival. Granted we might not need that much variety, and the process can wrong. If i wanted to go against all that i would become a vegetarian (although the same can be said to plants) and become a druid or something like that.

But i'm not. I'm trying to put things into context where people are at stake. Human instinct says to take care of yourself and those close to you, and everyone else doesn't matter that much. However in this situation wouldn't that also be considered selfish? On the other side of the coin, the same could be said that your trying to save everyones lives by taking that chance. Its mind boggling, to me at least.

Laharl · 04-11-2004, 05:24 AM

The value of the life of the one that is killed must be large indeed.

The problem with this whole scenario is that men will die, no matter what. The hostages, the terrorists, or the victims of the terrorists' request.

ultimategamer · 04-11-2004, 05:52 AM

the terrorists do no necessarily die (jail or getaway). the hostages do not necessarily die (kill the victims, or the terrorists are stopped). the "ransom" does not necessarily die (just don't kill 'em) however whether or not that happens is a gamble. is it really worth that risk?

makaveli121212 · 04-11-2004, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perfect_fat

To quote Dr. Spock

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

But I think that's an unfair anecdote to go along with your question. Look at the value we place on animals for example. We'll cut the beaks off chickens, we'll slaughter cows, pigs and the afforementioned fowl in droves, but the thought of killing a cat or a dog for food in north america is thought of as disgusting. Another example is our brazen slaughter of insects and "lower life forms" for our own enjoyment or comfort. I think we place little value on any life but our own and those very close to us, or our idols. I need some ridalin.

maybe you want to throw abortion in there...but it is a whole nother aguement

Anticrombie0909 · 04-11-2004, 09:21 AM

When I had my Bar Mitzvah, my torah portion had a little bit to do about this, and I also took a class on ethics. It's very interesting, really, because the laws contradict themselves. For instance, one law says "L'Chaim" which means "Choose Life." However another law says "Love thy neighbor as you love thyself" (directly translated), which means you should value your neighbors life at the same standard as your own. So here's an example scholors love to debate about.

You're stranded in the desert with your friend. You both have one bottle of water. These bottles should get you through the desert to the city, where yo'ull be saved. You stop to take a drink, when you realize that your friend's bottle has been leaking and is empty. If you share your water with him, you will both die. If you keep your water, you will survive but he will not. So what do you do- choose life, or love thy neighbor?

makaveli121212 · 04-11-2004, 10:24 AM

the thing is you wouldnt possibly know that both of you would die if you shared the water, but one would live if he had it all to himself...its too much of a hypothetical question that wouldnt ever come up in real life

Anticrombie0909 · 04-11-2004, 11:02 AM

It's a theological situation, maka. Pretend each of you packed just enough water to get across. You're completely missing the point if you look at the reasons why the hypothetical wouldn't exist.

makaveli121212 · 04-11-2004, 04:40 PM

you cant say its contradictory if it could never happen...

ultimategamer · 04-11-2004, 10:44 PM

maka, althought it probably couldn't happen doesn't mean that you shouldn't think about it. Lets put the same thing in a different context:

You and your friend are walking somewhere, and all of a sudden a robber points a gun at both of you and says that he's going to kill the person who doesn't give him $50. If you do give him $50 he'll let you get away unhurt. You look in your wallet and find exactly $50, and look at your friend on notice he doesn't have any cash at alll. Do you save yourself or do you give the $50 to your friend to let him go, and be killed yourself?

Omeganitros · 04-11-2004, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultimategamer

maka, althought it probably couldn't happen doesn't mean that you shouldn't think about it. Lets put the same thing in a different context:

You and your friend are walking somewhere, and all of a sudden a robber points a gun at both of you and says that he's going to kill the person who doesn't give him $50. If you do give him $50 he'll let you get away unhurt. You look in your wallet and find exactly $50, and look at your friend on notice he doesn't have any cash at alll. Do you save yourself or do you give the $50 to your friend to let him go, and be killed yourself?

It all comes down to the morality of the one with $50. Which life is worth more?

And Anticrombie, I dont think "Choose Life" and "Love thy neighbor as you love thy self" contradict each other. It just says "Choose Life," not "Choose Your Life" of "Choose His Life." Its probably just "Love thy neighbor as you love thy self" that contradicts itself.

Dark_Mind · 04-12-2004, 10:11 AM

The needs of the individual outweigh the needs of the few and the many.

We don't want to expose those that are close to us to harm because we benifit from their existence. If the goal of life is to create new life, then having your gf/bf around might help.

HNJhack · 04-12-2004, 10:41 AM

ok, well not to be an ass, but the main goal in life is survival. Then reproduction and all that crap. But the main thing is to ensure that you yourself survive. Do whatever you have to do, in order to live on. In the hostage case, i would say go ahead and kill that one man, even if it were my own family, they would have died to save many, which i see as noble. Plus, in some cases the whole lot of people should be killed, it depends on who is involved. if you have a hobo who is being help for ransom, and the threat is that 50 people will die, or he dies. Kill the hobo, he'll probably freeze to death on the street corner soon anyways. He isn't going anywhere in life, he doesn't benfit society. But that is another topic. i guess my real point is that unless you know who is involved in the situation, you can't really make a good choice. The way i see it, not all life is equal, but i do beleive in equal rights. yes i know they contradict, it's a grey area for me. but if you kill 50 people, in time there will be 50 more, they will do what they were born to do, and then die. I don't see life as anything truely sacred, it's sole purpose is to continue the cycle. But we messed it up by thinking.if you were to tell me that a bomb went off in a train station and it killed 20 people, and 5 of them were my friends, i would be sad for them, but i wouldn't at the same time. I mean, stuff like that happens. I have noticed myself go off into a rant that is straying from my original point, but i don't care, i will end it now, and if anyone cares about the rest of it, let me know. I hope i gave you something to think about.

And it's good to be back, i haven't been able to be here due to work school, and life in general ^_^

COBOL · 04-12-2004, 10:49 AM

my mommy always says that I'm priceless

HNJhack · 04-12-2004, 11:00 AM

lol

i think you may have misunderstood what she ment. Not priceless as in worth more than anything in the world. Priceless as in you aren't worth a damn thing. XP

Omeganitros · 04-12-2004, 12:01 PM

04-11-2004, 03:05 AM	#1
ultimategamer FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 127	Just how valuable is a human life? alright, i recently got done watching an anime. one of its main themes i've thought about extensively and i couldn't come up with a solid moral (relative to me) answer. Just how valuable is a human life? Lets say, theoretically, a group of terrorists hold a thousand people hostage, and demand that this random but innocent guy be killed or they'll kill the all hostages and you had to make the call. Yes, theres a chance they'll wuss out and won't it. Yes theres a chance the SWAT team will come in and save the day. But are you really willing to take that chance? What if the person they're demanding is a good friend of yours? your gf/bf/spouse? your father/mother? yourself? What if you raised the stakes to 10000 people? 1 million people? the world? Just how much value would you put on a someones life, based on a chance? Logically, the best choice would be to kill that one person, and save the rest. It can't be too bad, right? However, knowing that theres only a chance of everyone actually dying, and when you bring up the stakes when it involves someone close to you is that most moral choice you can make? Is it worth taking the risk to save all those lives, or take the sure fire path and save everyone, but lose someone innocent and important to you. Granted this type of situation will more than likely never happen to anyone, its still interesting to think as to what you would do. What does everyone think of it?

04-11-2004, 03:32 AM	#3
ultimategamer FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 127	I would have to disagree with Spock on that one. If that was the case minorities across america would never have a say in anything. Personally i think thats wrong. The later part of the text is part cultural, part survival. Much like in India where the slaughter of cows is unthinkable, here killing dogs/cats is horrid. Also we kill cows/pigs/fowls for food, which is needed for suvival. Granted we might not need that much variety, and the process can wrong. If i wanted to go against all that i would become a vegetarian (although the same can be said to plants) and become a druid or something like that. But i'm not. I'm trying to put things into context where people are at stake. Human instinct says to take care of yourself and those close to you, and everyone else doesn't matter that much. However in this situation wouldn't that also be considered selfish? On the other side of the coin, the same could be said that your trying to save everyones lives by taking that chance. Its mind boggling, to me at least. __________________

04-11-2004, 05:24 AM	#4
Laharl FFR Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Age: 38 Posts: 1,821	The value of the life of the one that is killed must be large indeed. The problem with this whole scenario is that men will die, no matter what. The hostages, the terrorists, or the victims of the terrorists' request. __________________ SIG PICTURES: POINTLESSLY TAKING UP BANDWIDTH SINCE THE INCEPTION OF THE INTERNET

04-11-2004, 05:52 AM	#5
ultimategamer FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 127	the terrorists do no necessarily die (jail or getaway). the hostages do not necessarily die (kill the victims, or the terrorists are stopped). the "ransom" does not necessarily die (just don't kill 'em) however whether or not that happens is a gamble. is it really worth that risk? __________________

04-12-2004, 10:11 AM	#13
Dark_Mind FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Age: 38 Posts: 163	The needs of the individual outweigh the needs of the few and the many. We don't want to expose those that are close to us to harm because we benifit from their existence. If the goal of life is to create new life, then having your gf/bf around might help. __________________

04-11-2004, 03:22 AM	#2
perfect_fat FFR Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 161	To quote Dr. Spock "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." But I think that's an unfair anecdote to go along with your question. Look at the value we place on animals for example. We'll cut the beaks off chickens, we'll slaughter cows, pigs and the afforementioned fowl in droves, but the thought of killing a cat or a dog for food in north america is thought of as disgusting. Another example is our brazen slaughter of insects and "lower life forms" for our own enjoyment or comfort. I think we place little value on any life but our own and those very close to us, or our idols. I need some ridalin.

04-11-2004, 09:21 AM	#7
Anticrombie0909 FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,683	When I had my Bar Mitzvah, my torah portion had a little bit to do about this, and I also took a class on ethics. It's very interesting, really, because the laws contradict themselves. For instance, one law says "L'Chaim" which means "Choose Life." However another law says "Love thy neighbor as you love thyself" (directly translated), which means you should value your neighbors life at the same standard as your own. So here's an example scholors love to debate about. You're stranded in the desert with your friend. You both have one bottle of water. These bottles should get you through the desert to the city, where yo'ull be saved. You stop to take a drink, when you realize that your friend's bottle has been leaking and is empty. If you share your water with him, you will both die. If you keep your water, you will survive but he will not. So what do you do- choose life, or love thy neighbor?

04-11-2004, 11:02 AM	#9
Anticrombie0909 FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,683	It's a theological situation, maka. Pretend each of you packed just enough water to get across. You're completely missing the point if you look at the reasons why the hypothetical wouldn't exist.

04-11-2004, 10:44 PM	#11
ultimategamer FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 127	maka, althought it probably couldn't happen doesn't mean that you shouldn't think about it. Lets put the same thing in a different context: You and your friend are walking somewhere, and all of a sudden a robber points a gun at both of you and says that he's going to kill the person who doesn't give him $50. If you do give him $50 he'll let you get away unhurt. You look in your wallet and find exactly $50, and look at your friend on notice he doesn't have any cash at alll. Do you save yourself or do you give the $50 to your friend to let him go, and be killed yourself?

04-12-2004, 10:41 AM	#14
HNJhack FFR Player Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 101	ok, well not to be an ass, but the main goal in life is survival. Then reproduction and all that crap. But the main thing is to ensure that you yourself survive. Do whatever you have to do, in order to live on. In the hostage case, i would say go ahead and kill that one man, even if it were my own family, they would have died to save many, which i see as noble. Plus, in some cases the whole lot of people should be killed, it depends on who is involved. if you have a hobo who is being help for ransom, and the threat is that 50 people will die, or he dies. Kill the hobo, he'll probably freeze to death on the street corner soon anyways. He isn't going anywhere in life, he doesn't benfit society. But that is another topic. i guess my real point is that unless you know who is involved in the situation, you can't really make a good choice. The way i see it, not all life is equal, but i do beleive in equal rights. yes i know they contradict, it's a grey area for me. but if you kill 50 people, in time there will be 50 more, they will do what they were born to do, and then die. I don't see life as anything truely sacred, it's sole purpose is to continue the cycle. But we messed it up by thinking.if you were to tell me that a bomb went off in a train station and it killed 20 people, and 5 of them were my friends, i would be sad for them, but i wouldn't at the same time. I mean, stuff like that happens. I have noticed myself go off into a rant that is straying from my original point, but i don't care, i will end it now, and if anyone cares about the rest of it, let me know. I hope i gave you something to think about. And it's good to be back, i haven't been able to be here due to work school, and life in general ^_^ __________________ - 無秩序の神

04-12-2004, 10:49 AM	#15
COBOL FFR Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: In a YAM Posts: 232	my mommy always says that I'm priceless __________________ Cornstalk Remanants

04-12-2004, 11:00 AM	#16
HNJhack FFR Player Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 101	lol i think you may have misunderstood what she ment. Not priceless as in worth more than anything in the world. Priceless as in you aren't worth a damn thing. XP __________________ - 無秩序の神

04-12-2004, 12:01 PM	#17
Omeganitros auauauau Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hee-Haw! Age: 35 Posts: 8,897	lol

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