Go Back   Flash Flash Revolution: Community Forums > General Discussion > Critical Thinking
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-26-2007, 11:54 PM   #1
ledwix
Giant Pi Operator
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: California
Age: 30
Posts: 2,878
Send a message via AIM to ledwix Send a message via Yahoo to ledwix
Default Immiment Death Question

Situation:
A gigantic metal ball is in freefall in the sky, headed straight toward a party of 5 people who stand unprotected on a platform. When it lands on them in a few seconds, they will surely be crushed. On another platform, one person stands alone safely. You stand 100 feet away from each platform with no equipment. A lever is at your side. If you pull it, the two platforms will instantaneously switch positions, putting the previously safe person in grave danger and freeing the five people from any danger. You do not know the identities of the people. They could be strangers, friends, celebrities, family, enemies, etc, but you do not know.

Question:
Would you pull this lever?

Why/why not?
ledwix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2007, 11:57 PM   #2
Verruckter
FFR Player
 
Verruckter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada, with the cool people!
Posts: 2,707
Send a message via AIM to Verruckter Send a message via MSN to Verruckter
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

I'd probably just stare in disbeleif.
__________________
Truth lies in loneliness, When hope is long gone by -Blind Guardian, The Soulforged
Image removed for size violation.
Verruckter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 12:03 AM   #3
inflames07
FFR Player
 
inflames07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Illinois
Age: 30
Posts: 470
Send a message via AIM to inflames07
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

I would convince the kid standing alone that he is undeserving of life and that he should die with them. Then instead of playing God, they will all die and I wouldn't feel bad about making the wrong choice.
__________________



Quote:
Originally Posted by jewpinthethird View Post
Sex kills time and it's free.

Instead of taking her out to a movie and buying her popcorn, bend her over the arm of a couch. It's very economical. Just make sure you are using the proper protection, because then it can become VERY, VERY GOD DAMN UNECONOMICAL if she pops a baby 9 months down the road.
inflames07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 12:05 AM   #4
acknerr
FFR Player
 
acknerr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: On My Friggin' Computer, Where Do You Think?!
Age: 29
Posts: 551
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Better to save more than less, unless you could tell that they were potheads. I'd pull the lever.
acknerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 12:42 AM   #5
GuidoHunter
is against custom titles
FFR Veteran
 
GuidoHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Texas
Age: 36
Posts: 7,379
Send a message via AIM to GuidoHunter Send a message via Skype™ to GuidoHunter
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

The question is: by pulling the lever, are you doing evil while you do good or doing good while you're doing evil?

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod View Post
She has an asshole, in other pics you can see a diaper taped to her dead twin's back.
Sentences I thought I never would have to type.
GuidoHunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 12:53 AM   #6
wickedawesomeful
Carls, Girls, & Drugs
FFR Music Producer
 
wickedawesomeful's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tosh's noose.
Age: 27
Posts: 3,888
Send a message via AIM to wickedawesomeful
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

I would pull the lever.
__________________
http://dozemusic.com/
wickedawesomeful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 12:57 AM   #7
DarkbearX
Shimose
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Music ProducerFFR Veteran
 
DarkbearX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Where you live
Posts: 1,995
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

I'd probably be too frantic to do anything.
DarkbearX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 01:03 AM   #8
Chrissi
FFR Player
 
Chrissi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: The Game
Age: 34
Posts: 3,019
Send a message via MSN to Chrissi
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

This question phrased in a more reasonable manner:

There are 5 random people tied to a railroad track. You don't know them. You can't even tell who they are. A train is heading straight for them. But there's good news! You are at the station and you can pull the switch to divert the train from its present track. The bad news? One person is tied to that track.

Do you pull the lever?

For almost everyone, the answer is yes, we pull the lever. Why? You're saving more lives that way. It's pretty obvious. There are some people who wouldn't pull the lever, but they are the anomoly.

Now consider this similar situation: There are five very sick people in a small town with a doctor. These people will die if they do not get organ transplants. Each of them needs a different, vital organ, but there are none available. A wanderer comes into town and visits the doctor. The doctor finds out that this person's organs are compatible with all five of the dying people. So the doctor questions the wanderer, and it turns out the wanderer has no family, no friends, nobody knows where he's going and nobody cares that he left. He's truly a nomad.

Should the doctor steal the wanderer's organs (which would kill him in the process) and save the five dying people?

For most, the answer is no.

Think about why that is. It's the same situation, when it comes down to it: Five lives saved for the sacrifice of one. But why is it that most people would say yes to the first situation, and no to the second?

From my perspective, it has to do with being proactive or reactive. In the first situation, you need to REACT and flip the switch. In the second situation, you actually have to kill a person, thus being PROACTIVE.
__________________
C is for Charisma, it's why people think I'm great! I make my friends all laugh and smile and never want to hate!
Chrissi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 01:41 AM   #9
BluE_MeaniE
FFR Player
 
BluE_MeaniE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 796
Send a message via AIM to BluE_MeaniE Send a message via MSN to BluE_MeaniE
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Here's a good blog on a similar subject. There was a recent study on people who had brain damage in certain areas and had less of a problem hypothetically killing people to save others.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri Poincaré
The scientist does not study nature because it is useful to do so. He studies it because he takes pleasure in it, and he takes pleasure in it because it is beautiful.
BluE_MeaniE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 02:03 AM   #10
AriesMalvis
FFR Player
FFR Veteran
 
AriesMalvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,345
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

id pull the lever and jump on the platform with that person *splat*
__________________
AriesMalvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 12:01 PM   #11
DHS1
FFR Player
 
DHS1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Earth
Age: 30
Posts: 254
Send a message via ICQ to DHS1 Send a message via AIM to DHS1 Send a message via MSN to DHS1 Send a message via Yahoo to DHS1
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissi View Post
This question phrased in a more reasonable manner:

There are 5 random people tied to a railroad track. You don't know them. You can't even tell who they are. A train is heading straight for them. But there's good news! You are at the station and you can pull the switch to divert the train from its present track. The bad news? One person is tied to that track.

Do you pull the lever?

For almost everyone, the answer is yes, we pull the lever. Why? You're saving more lives that way. It's pretty obvious. There are some people who wouldn't pull the lever, but they are the anomoly.

Now consider this similar situation: There are five very sick people in a small town with a doctor. These people will die if they do not get organ transplants. Each of them needs a different, vital organ, but there are none available. A wanderer comes into town and visits the doctor. The doctor finds out that this person's organs are compatible with all five of the dying people. So the doctor questions the wanderer, and it turns out the wanderer has no family, no friends, nobody knows where he's going and nobody cares that he left. He's truly a nomad.

Should the doctor steal the wanderer's organs (which would kill him in the process) and save the five dying people?

For most, the answer is no.

Think about why that is. It's the same situation, when it comes down to it: Five lives saved for the sacrifice of one. But why is it that most people would say yes to the first situation, and no to the second?

From my perspective, it has to do with being proactive or reactive. In the first situation, you need to REACT and flip the switch. In the second situation, you actually have to kill a person, thus being PROACTIVE.
In the first one I would pull the lever to save more people.

In the second I wouldnt kill the wanderer because he is healthy and even if the sick people got the transplants, they would probably have more problems down the road.

I look at it this way: If it were way back when, when transplants were fantacy, then those people would have died and the wanderer would have lived. It's only fair that the healthy person survives.

Im not saying that healthy people are superior to people with medical problems, I mean I myself wouldnt have even made it out of my mothers womb if it werent for c-section (spell?) And I would have died from sickness multiple times if it werent for our awesome knowledge of medicine. But if it came down to it, it's only fair that the healthy survives (unless he wants to give himself up).
__________________

DHS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 12:11 PM   #12
talisman
Resident Penguin
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
talisman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Age: 34
Posts: 4,598
Send a message via AIM to talisman
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

these scenarios are supposed to test your "intellectual" vs "emotional" (quotes because decision making isn't this simple) decision-making tendencies. The second scenario is usually something like "would you push a man off a bridge into the way of the train, killing him but stopping the train and saving the other five?" Most people answer no, presumably because this situation lacks the emotional detachment of the original situation.
talisman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 12:15 PM   #13
Hachi86
FFR Player
 
Hachi86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montgomery, Al
Age: 31
Posts: 194
Send a message via AIM to Hachi86
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissi View Post
From my perspective, it has to do with being proactive or reactive. In the first situation, you need to REACT and flip the switch. In the second situation, you actually have to kill a person, thus being PROACTIVE.
I think thats what it is, too. IMO, if i had to react to something, i would be alot more willing than if i had to move myself and be motivated to do it.
__________________
**Proud Member of the Breaking AUP Club**

250 in the Un-Catfish Pact of 2007

Class: Spread (Sub class - ASKL)
HP: 225 (16th stream combo speed)
Strength: 190 (max jack speed)
Defense: 165 (16th jump stream speed)
Speed: 280 (pass stream speed)
Accuracy: 89 (average percent of marvs)
Stamina: 250 (consistent 16th stream survival)
Evasion: 679 (comfort scroll rate)
Hachi86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 02:00 PM   #14
Kilroy_x
Little Chief Hare
FFR Veteran
 
Kilroy_x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Age: 32
Posts: 783
Send a message via AIM to Kilroy_x
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

I'm not sure I would do anything in any of those scenarios. In all of them, before I take the action events are unfolding as they would, and the people that will die will die as a result of already determined conditions, but as soon as I react even though I'm saving 5 people or what have you I'm also killing one. I'm not sure linear arithmatic should be trusted to show that the good I've done to outweigh the bad.

Am I duty bound to try and save these people? I don't see why. I don't even know what the circumstances are for why they're there. Maybe the five people tied to the railroad tracks are criminals facing vigilante justice and the one person was just a random guy who tried to stop the vigilante and was restrained.

If I did pull the lever I would also feel obligated to make some sort of attempt to save the individual guy in each circumstance, even at the cost of my own life.
Kilroy_x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 02:31 PM   #15
GuidoHunter
is against custom titles
FFR Veteran
 
GuidoHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Texas
Age: 36
Posts: 7,379
Send a message via AIM to GuidoHunter Send a message via Skype™ to GuidoHunter
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilroy_x View Post
Maybe the five people tied to the railroad tracks are criminals facing vigilante justice
That makes it okay for you to personally execute them?

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod View Post
She has an asshole, in other pics you can see a diaper taped to her dead twin's back.
Sentences I thought I never would have to type.
GuidoHunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 03:07 PM   #16
goat6707
FFR Player
 
goat6707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Yellow Jacket Country
Age: 32
Posts: 114
Send a message via AIM to goat6707 Send a message via MSN to goat6707 Send a message via Yahoo to goat6707
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

It doesn't make it ok, but it does right some wrongs in the process
goat6707 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 03:07 PM   #17
Kilroy_x
Little Chief Hare
FFR Veteran
 
Kilroy_x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Age: 32
Posts: 783
Send a message via AIM to Kilroy_x
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoHunter View Post
That makes it okay for you to personally execute them?

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com


How the hell did you come to that conclusion? By NOT taking any action I'm not responsible for the outcome of the situation either way. By Flipping the switch I'm responsible for PERSONALLY MURDERING ONE PERSON.
Kilroy_x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 04:00 PM   #18
Izzi
FFR Player
 
Izzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 30
Posts: 2,142
Send a message via AIM to Izzi
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Thats really not what the question is asking guido. You arnt personally executing anyone since its not your metal ball. All in all i think the whole idea of the question is blatantly obvious. If you had to youd save more then less. If someone could come up with a more relistic situation this question might be more relavent.
Izzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 04:22 PM   #19
Kilroy_x
Little Chief Hare
FFR Veteran
 
Kilroy_x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Age: 32
Posts: 783
Send a message via AIM to Kilroy_x
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

The problem is that what you are describing is an action most people would take based on emotion and instinct. It is natural to assume that value comes in quantity and that to save more lives at the cost of one has a greater weight of good.

However, the idea of weighing the value of human beings one against the other is not only philosophically objectionable but morally repugnant. How can we even hope to perform such calculations? Would our instinct serve us more efficiently if we knew the one man was someone society rejects, like a homosexual or a criminal or a mental invalid?

Would our instinct serve us differently altogether if the 5 individuals were hitler youth and the one individual was a pregnant woman doctor?

The types of questions made in this thread reflect only on where the poorness of judgement lies in each individual and in turn where their emotions compensate for an inability to weigh factors which cannot be weighed but by ignorance.
Kilroy_x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 04:22 PM   #20
GuidoHunter
is against custom titles
FFR Veteran
 
GuidoHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Texas
Age: 36
Posts: 7,379
Send a message via AIM to GuidoHunter Send a message via Skype™ to GuidoHunter
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilroy_x View Post
How the hell did you come to that conclusion? By NOT taking any action I'm not responsible for the outcome of the situation either way. By Flipping the switch I'm responsible for PERSONALLY MURDERING ONE PERSON.
It's the consideration of who they are that's the issue. If you think, "Oh, well, they're bad people, so they should go," you're taking the law into your own hands and executing them because of their past.

If you throw the switch and doom the one guy, it's because you think, "I'm sorry, but I'm trying to save five people, here," you're weighing the consequences and trying to do the most good.

Vigilante justice is illegal. Killing a guy just because he was really bad and the law hadn't yet gotten him is still murder.

The issue here is with saving lives. If you're only consideration is doing the most good, your actions aren't morally reprehensible. If, however, you consider who those people are, personally deem them worthy to die, and then let that happen, you're no longer trying to do the most good; you're trying to do the least evil. You're taking it upon yourself to kill someone instead of save them, and that's committing an evil act.

EDIT (ninja'd):
Quote:
However, the idea of weighing the value of human beings one against the other is not only philosophically objectionable but morally repugnant.
So why did you suggest that you'd entertain doing just that were you given the choice?

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod View Post
She has an asshole, in other pics you can see a diaper taped to her dead twin's back.
Sentences I thought I never would have to type.
GuidoHunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FlashFlashRevolution