Islam and terrorism

[TheWired724]

I've noticed religious threads are discouraged around here. However i'm very curious about what the consensus is about Islam and violence. I'll do my best to support any claims i make, but first i would like to know what you guys believe.

[FoJaR]

explain yourself.

[TheWired724]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

explain yourself.

You mean my motive for creating this thread? Or my stance on the subject at hand?

[hykinix]

Stance on the subject at hand. Motivation is clearly for discussion of the matter, or to hear the public consensus and then debate it with the several documents worth of notes you already have.

[TheWired724]

Originally Posted by hykinix

Stance on the subject at hand. Motivation is clearly for discussion of the matter, or to hear the public consensus and then debate it with the several documents worth of notes you already have.

Alright. I wanted to read what other people thought first, but whatever. To put it bluntly, i believe Islam inspires terrorism. I believe the people who perpetrated 9/11 were not fanatics, but fundamentalists. I do not derive this view solely from the actions of Muslims, but from Islamic text.

[GuidoHunter]

Why do so many Muslims disagree with you and proclaim that Islam, as taught by the Koran, is a religion of peace?

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[jewpinthethird]

Originally Posted by TheWired724

Alright. I wanted to read what other people thought first, but whatever. To put it bluntly, i believe Islam inspires terrorism. I believe the people who perpetrated 9/11 were not fanatics, but fundamentalists. I do not derive this view solely from the actions of Muslims, but from Islamic text.

Yeah, but certain Christian fundamentalists groups are terrorists too. Also, are you familiar with the Crusades, where many Muslims were killed in the name of Christianity? Yeah, they haven't quite forgotten about that either. To them, we are nothing but a plague that exploits them...and we are. We have no right to enforce our way of life on them.

[XxxBLUNTMANxxX]

islam doesn't teach terrorism

Originally Posted by jewpinthethird

Yeah, but certain Christian fundamentalists groups are terrorists too. Also, are you familiar with the Crusades, where many Muslims were killed in the name of Christianity? Yeah, they haven't quite forgotten about that either. To them, we are nothing but a plague that exploits them...and we are. We have no right to enforce our way of life on them.

true say

[TheWired724]

Originally Posted by jewpinthethird

Yeah, but certain Christian fundamentalists groups are terrorists too. Also, are you familiar with the Crusades, where many Muslims were killed in the name of Christianity? Yeah, they haven't quite forgotten about that either. To them, we are nothing but a plague that exploits them...and we are. We have no right to enforce our way of life on them.

Well i guess this is one way to show your opinion. Bin Laden can justify his acts by correctly quoting Islamic scripture. Those of the Crusades could not. The Catholic church at the time was corrupt- straying from what Christ taught. During the Crusades the Pope promised the Crusaders paradise if they died while fighting the infidel(sound familiar?). This is just one of many instances demonstrating the corruption of the church. Here's another important fact, it had been four centuries sense a sermon was preached in the common language of the people. It would also be another four centuries before the first Bible, Wycliffes, would come to exist. The men who fought were not Christians. To be Christian is to know Christ. They could not have known Him. So, such an argument suggesting Biblical Christianity is not better than Islam is void. Also, it's not like the Muslims only started being after the Crusades. They had gone off conquering Arabia long before.

[TheWired724]

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

Why do so many Muslims disagree with you and proclaim that Islam, as taught by the Koran, is a religion of peace?

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Islam, as taught by the Qur'an, is not a religion of peace. Most Muslims, from my experiences, aren't fully aware ofwhat their scriptures say. They most likely go on what their told by local clerics, media, etc.


Crap, this thread isn't going the way i wanted. Ok, i'll deal with all these challenges and what not. But please, i started this to see what the consensus was, not for this to become a big debate.

[Maid]

Islam is not a detriment for fostering terrorism. In my Opinion Islam as a religion, has flaws like Christianity but it has more of them, especially ones that help with nurturing behavior that leads to terrorism. To lightly put it.

edit: addition. Christianity is an older religion, it had more time to mature and work out some quirks as opposed to Islam which is a relatively new religion and newer things tend to bring more spice.

[jewpinthethird]

Originally Posted by TheWired724

Islam, as taught by the Qur'an, is not a religion of peace. Most Muslims, from my experiences, aren't fully aware ofwhat their scriptures say. They most likely go on what their told by local clerics, media, etc.


Crap, this thread isn't going the way i wanted. Ok, i'll deal with all these challenges and what not. But please, i started this to see what the consensus was, not for this to become a big debate.

The consensus is you're the only one who things Islam encourages terrorism.

If you are going to say something like that, you better have some sound evidence to back it. I am, by no means, an expert on the religion. But from what I have learned, it is as peaceful a religion as Christianity.

ps. Most Christians aren't fully aware of what the Bible says either.

[TheWired724]

Originally Posted by jewpinthethird

The consensus is you're the only one who things Islam encourages terrorism.

If you are going to say something like that, you better have some sound evidence to back it. I am, by no means, an expert on the religion. But from what I have learned, it is as peaceful a religion as Christianity.

Ok, evidence.....well i already know what the response will be.

I'm sure you guys are familiar with Qur'an 9:5 ''But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.''

Someone here will probably say something to the effect of ''that's taken out of context, only applies to certain war, not today,'' correct? The ninth surah is chronologically the second to the last. Most of this surah was revealed after the Muslims suffered a big defeat from the Byzantines(I think) and before the Muslims conquered Mecca. That would mean they weren't actually at war when this verse came about. ''But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them'' is clearly offensive. Since this verse does not specify as to whom to fight, or when, or where is most be interpreted as an open command.


Let's do another: Qur'an 9:29 ''Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.''

This passage is pretty straight forward. Allah orders Muslims to fight those who 1. reject Allah, 2. Believe not the last day, 3. do not obey Allah and Muhammad, and 4. reject Islam until they pay the Jizyah tax, or otherwise, kill them.

ps. Most Christians aren't fully aware of what the Bible says either.

I don't dispute that. I never said they were.

[tkoy]

Originally Posted by jewpinthethird

Yeah, but certain Christian fundamentalists groups are terrorists too. Also, are you familiar with the Crusades, where many Muslims were killed in the name of Christianity? Yeah, they haven't quite forgotten about that either. To them, we are nothing but a plague that exploits them...and we are. We have no right to enforce our way of life on them.

thank u!

[XxxBLUNTMANxxX]

you don't know anythin about the Qur'an, I guarantee u havn't read it an if u had I guarantee u don't know the translation in to english so anythin u say about what the Qur'an teaches is false ur just usin some one elses opinion... check out doctor Z on youtube.... unlike u hes read and studied both the Qur'an and the bible and knows word for word from each...
P.S. Dr. Z tears the bible apart in comparison to the Qur'an and has even challanged some bible experts to a debate but theynever except

[TheWired724]

Originally Posted by XxxBLUNTMANxxX

you don't know anythin about the Qur'an, I guarantee u havn't read it an if u had I guarantee u don't know the translation in to english so anythin u say about what the Qur'an teaches is false ur just usin some one elses opinion... check out doctor Z on youtube.... unlike u hes read and studied both the Qur'an and the bible and knows word for word from each...
P.S. Dr. Z tears the bible apart in comparison to the Qur'an and has even challanged some bible experts to a debate but theynever except

And i guarantee Dr. Z doesn't know what he's talking about. I have read the Qur'an, but that's not sufficient. The Qur'an is jibberish as it lacks both context and chronology. This is why one also needs the Hadith, the only source that makes the Qur'an understandable. I bet you've never read any of the Hadith accounts of Bukhari or Muslim. What Ishaq's ''Sirat Rasul Allah'' or Tabari's ''Ta'ryik''? These are Islam's earliest sources.

[randomdragoon]

Scriptures like the Qur'an and the Bible are sufficiently long in that one can get them to say anything they want by interpreting specific passages in the way that they feel like. People can argue all they want about them, but in the end it's just the simple fact that they're way too long for any universally clear message to get through. It would have been nice if the Bible solely consisted of the Commandments and that was it (end of all Bible debates, yay!) but too bad, it's not.

On that note, I have many Muslim friends who are quite peaceful (well, except for one ... but I attribute that not to Islam but to his too many readings of Communist texts).

[flashMaster10]

ok i didnt read anything about what you guys said because im too busy and about to go to bed but, all i gotta say is that islam does not promote voilence and its the religion of peace. so is christianity and jewism. im a muslim and i would never in my life belive that islam promotes violence.

[virtuoussinner]

All religions, if taken out of context, can promote violence. I cannot think of a single religion that has not killed members of another.

And it's Judaism, not Jewism.

[TheWired724]

Originally Posted by virtuoussinner

All religions, if taken out of context, can promote violence. I cannot think of a single religion that has not killed members of another.

And it's Judaism, not Jewism.

Are you suggesting that i took Qur'an 9:5 and 29 out of context?