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Old 02-25-2004, 06:15 PM   #21
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if he supports gay marriage the race is officially i repeat OFFICIALLY over
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Old 02-25-2004, 06:20 PM   #22
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personally, i think nader is secretly a conservative. he wants bush to win.
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Old 02-25-2004, 06:23 PM   #23
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Well I'd say that cynically, but I think he's too liberal to support what Bush advocates.

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if he supports #$* marriage the race is officially i repeat OFFICIALLY over
Nice to know we can make blanket statements like that and KNOW that we're right. Maka, use common sense. If it were that big of a deal, and the entire country felt a certain way, Kerry wouldn't be stupid enough to support it. He's a smart guy (unlike Bush), he's been planning this since his early 20s, he's not about to screw it up and know he's doing so. There are plenty of people who support gay marriage, plenty of people that support Kerry one way or the other, and even more that just want to get Bush the hell out of office. The race isnt' over yet, it's just beginning.
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Old 02-25-2004, 06:24 PM   #24
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yeah i know its hard for you to admit that bush has already won, but you just gotta face it...denial is difficult
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Old 02-25-2004, 06:28 PM   #25
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mak, without Nader, Kerry has about as good a chance as Bush to win.
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Old 02-25-2004, 06:38 PM   #26
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I can't believe there are actually people here that support Bush. Let's count the ways he fucked up his term:

1: He lied to the American people about Saddam posessing Weapons of Mass Destruction, and indirectly linked 9-11 to Saddam
2: After finding nothing, he went to war anyway
3: He had a 'shoot first and ask questions later' war policy that resulted in billions of wasted dollars and hundreds of thousands of troops in Iraq and nothing to do wtih them
4: He disregarded Nato, insulted them, and royally pissed off France
5: He passed the "No Child Left Behind" act, which needs no explanation as to how royally idiotic it is
6: He wants to blur the lines between church and state
7: He shot medicare prices through the effin' roof
8: He's also the least environmentally concerned (to put it nicely) President ever

He's a great role model, as well:
1: He paid his way through college
2: He used pot and cocaine as a teenager
3: He's a recovering alcoholic
4: He has the lowest I.Q. seen in a President since, like, ever
5: He used his dad's influence to gain power
6: He choked on a pretzel, yadda yadda...

Basically, he made one hell of a four years. A President that makes this many mistakes...come on. This isn't so much a race of issues or candidates as it is a race of "Get the idiot the hell out of office"
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Old 02-25-2004, 06:45 PM   #27
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youre forgetting something...the american public has forgot about all of that stuff...only the die hard people who actually affiliate themselves with a political party will look that in depth...the american public is all worried about gay marriage now...president bush is playing his cards perfectly, now everyone is focusing on an issue that bush has a distinct advantage over kerry on...kerry made a moronic move by taking a stand on the gay marriage issue
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Old 02-25-2004, 07:19 PM   #28
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Maka...you're an idiot. You think that people only start paying attention to what's going on around election time? Bush has done a lot of things to leave bad tastes in everybody's mouths. This one stand won't make or break the election, and beyond that, there's no clear cut decision that the American people are taking on this. There are many against it, but there are also many people for it. There are some who don't agree with gay marriage but they'll vote against the movement because it's a violation of the constitution- and it is. Bush is manipulating the constitution itself with this law. Amendments are supposed to protect civil rights, not restrict them. And in the "Land of the Free", restricting something that has no effect on the government seems pretty ill-advised and poorly judged.
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Old 02-25-2004, 07:53 PM   #29
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anyone thats christain will vote for bush and against gay marriage...sort of ironic that they would vote for someone that got us in many wars...the pastors are already preaching for him...and if you think gay marriage has no affect on the government youre insane...you get many special privlages on taxes and such when youre married, if it was just a moral issue maybe i can see your point, but the fact is that it isnt just a moral issue, it will definatley affect the government...bush cannot manipulate the constitution, you know that...congress is all that matters on that issue...you show me where the constitution says you are allowed to have single sex marriages...it doesnt say anything about it, so the constitution niether defends nor oblishes it...yet
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Old 02-25-2004, 08:05 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Anticrombie0909
Maka...you're an idiot. You think that people only start paying attention to what's going on around election time? Bush has done a lot of things to leave bad tastes in everybody's mouths. This one stand won't make or break the election, and beyond that, there's no clear cut decision that the American people are taking on this. There are many against it, but there are also many people for it. There are some who don't agree with gay marriage but they'll vote against the movement because it's a violation of the constitution- and it is. Bush is manipulating the constitution itself with this law. Amendments are supposed to protect civil rights, not restrict them. And in the "Land of the Free", restricting something that has no effect on the government seems pretty ill-advised and poorly judged.
Socially, I'm quite liberal and dislike Bush. Politically, I'm quite conservative and like Bush. Just so you know.

How about this. Makaveli is a hardcore conservative, clearly. Anticrombie is a hardcore liberal, clearly. So, neither of you will convince the other. How about, instead of saying things like "you are an idiot" which makes the person saying it sound like an idiot because clearly they don't understand that not everyone thinks the same way as them, you realize that you won't convince the other, and things like "you are an idiot" are the worst possible thing you could try to start an objective arguement with.

Is bush's amendment a good idea (not politically, but socially)? No. Will it ever be passed? Probably not. Does it really matter with who we are choosing for president, considering that Bush can't make laws on his own, particularly amendments to the constitution? No. So, where are we? Right back where we started, with a liberal side and a conservative side, fighting for influence. So you disagree, big deal, the whole country does.
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Old 02-25-2004, 08:10 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli121212
anyone thats christain will vote for bush and against #$* marriage...sort of ironic that they would vote for someone that got us in many wars...the pastors are already preaching for him...and if you think #$* marriage has no affect on the government youre insane...you get many special privlages on taxes and such when youre married, if it was just a moral issue maybe i can see your point, but the fact is that it isnt just a moral issue, it will definatley affect the government...bush cannot manipulate the constitution, you know that...congress is all that matters on that issue...you show me where the constitution says you are allowed to have single sex marriages...it doesnt say anything about it, so the constitution niether defends nor oblishes it...yet
How can you say that because of the fact that it is not solely a moral issue, it should be passed. If anything, because it has an effect on taxes (for instance), why shouldn't a gay couple be allowed to have a reduction? Equal rights is equal rights, you really can't support it for one group and not another. To do so would completely negate the idea of equality. If anything, I could see that it could be passed only on a moral level to protect the sanctity of marriage for straight couples (but really, what does marriage really matter?).
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Old 02-25-2004, 08:17 PM   #32
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there is nothing that says same sex marriages and regular ones are equal...i never said it should be passed, and my point was that it will effect the government if gay marriages are allowed...mayve you dont understand how much of an effect it could potentially have on the government
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Old 02-25-2004, 08:30 PM   #33
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I guess I can't see the fact that the great minority of America will be able to get "married" and get a slight tax break and have some other small benefits will affect the government too much, I mean except to make gay seem alright or acceptable, but that doesn't have to do with the government so...


edit: but I did misunderstand you. I though you were saying that it should be passed, when really you were just saying that it will affect the government.
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Old 02-25-2004, 08:38 PM   #34
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affect/effect i still dont know the difference...but i there have been like, i forget the exact number, but about 4000 gay couples married in the last 2 months...nd thats only in the 3 or 4 states that allow it...the minority is bigger than even i had imagined
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Old 02-25-2004, 08:42 PM   #35
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lets say there are 250000 gay couples that get married in America, that's still (I think) less then .1% of the countries population...
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Old 02-25-2004, 08:46 PM   #36
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theres about 250 million americans, so it would .2% (you said 250000 couples) but thats in the last 2 months in 4 states...we could even have a new group of imigrants coming over so they can get married legally...whatever, this discusion isnt really about gay marriage so ill leave it at that i guess
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Old 02-25-2004, 09:35 PM   #37
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Quote:
How about this. Makaveli is a hardcore conservative, clearly. Anticrombie is a hardcore liberal, clearly. So, neither of you will convince the other. How about, instead of saying things like "you are an idiot" which makes the person saying it sound like an idiot because clearly they don't understand that not everyone thinks the same way as them, you realize that you won't convince the other, and things like "you are an idiot" are the worst possible thing you could try to start an objective arguement with.
First off, I'm not hardcore liberal, but many of my policies do tend to stray toward the liberal side. Second, I understand you and you're right about the whole 'idiot' thing, I just think that for maka to get up there and say "Because Bush takes this side, he will win, Kerry is a dope for taking the other side" is kind of a one sided and dumb thing to say.
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Old 02-25-2004, 09:45 PM   #38
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kerry really didnt take the other side and i think it will hirt him majorly...he said hes against gay marriages but not for the ammendment...is that was hes gonna do on every bill...'well i dont like it, but i dont have to make a law against it'...i mean people that were against gay marriage could have voted for him, but he will be losing a lot of those peoples votes...he will also lose a lot of peoples votes that want gay marriage...especially so if nader wants to endorse the mariages...either way, if he takes a stand he loses, so i made a statement saying that by taking a stand he ruined mouch if not all of a chance of winning...

of course kerry isnt out of the running, it wasnt meant to be read like that, he just lost voters, and that much you can admit im sure...if the election was held now i think kerry would have no chance, but the election isnt held now
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Old 02-25-2004, 09:53 PM   #39
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And I stand by the opinion that Bush has left a bad taste in enough people's mouths to cost him the election. My dad is a right wing republican, but he admitted that he's so unhappy with Bush that his decision is coming down to his pocketbook or his morals- and his morals are winning out.
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Old 02-26-2004, 06:43 AM   #40
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maybe you should express your own opinions instead of telling us what your daddy thinks
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