Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE - Page 3

A2_Sauce · 12-4-2006, 06:05 PM

so you are saying a googleplex^googleplex^googleplex is closer to one than infinity? But you should note, that Infiniti should be the largest possible number in the universe in any measurement... so it's not "technically" infinity, it's just the largest known number in the universe that any measurement will withhold assuming the universe is 4-dimensional. It's a lot like the speed of light... when you shoot a gun out a window while driving a car on the beltline, someone at rest on the beltline will view that bullet going it's speed relative to the driver plus how fast the car is moving. If i'm traveling at .8c (c=speed of light), and turn my headlights on(1c), the speed form a person at rest will view the light from my "ship" to be moving only at 1c, not 1.8c, which suggests and proves that c is the fastest speed in the universe.

skyrunner06 · 12-4-2006, 06:13 PM

yes but if infinity is the largest number possible than that would mean that it is larger or that it is undefined so there is no answer unles both are right wich i dont see how that is possible though if u were to go faster than light?hmmm

tsugomaru · 12-4-2006, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A2_Sauce

so you are saying a googleplex^googleplex^googleplex is closer to one than infinity? But you should note, that Infiniti should be the largest possible number in the universe in any measurement... so it's not "technically" infinity, it's just the largest known number in the universe that any measurement will withhold assuming the universe is 4-dimensional. It's a lot like the speed of light... when you shoot a gun out a window while driving a car on the beltline, someone at rest on the beltline will view that bullet going it's speed relative to the driver plus how fast the car is moving. If i'm traveling at .8c (c=speed of light), and turn my headlights on(1c), the speed form a person at rest will view the light from my "ship" to be moving only at 1c, not 1.8c, which suggests and proves that c is the fastest speed in the universe.

But you see, then we'd have to come up with a new term for an endless string of possible numbers (non-imaginary) and we'd have an argument over that word.

By giving infinity a definition, it loses its purpose in math.

~Tsugomaru

**Shashakiro** · 12-4-2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A2_Sauce

so you are saying a googleplex^googleplex^googleplex is closer to one than infinity?

Of course. Wouldn't be much of an infinity if a mere integer could compare to it.

Quote:

But you should note, that Infiniti should be the largest possible number in the universe in any measurement... so it's not "technically" infinity, it's just the largest known number in the universe that any measurement will withhold assuming the universe is 4-dimensional.

Uh...what? Who said there had to be any physical representation on infinity in the real world for it to be used? It's merely a useful theoretical concept, not a practical quantity.

skyrunner06 · 12-4-2006, 06:22 PM

exactly and then we would have to redo all of math because it would change how everything works wouldent it? and then noone would know the answer so its an unanserable question right

Tokzic · 12-4-2006, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyrunner06

o = o thats it infinety is an undetermined number it is larger than any other number its infinety

thank you for your insightful contribution to the topic

skyrunner06 · 12-4-2006, 06:30 PM

heres what wikipedia says :In mathematics, infinity is relevant to, or the subject matter of, limits, aleph numbers, classes in set theory, Dedekind-infinite sets, large cardinals, Russell's paradox, hyperreal numbers, projective geometry, extended real numbers and the absolute Infinite.

**Doug31** · 12-4-2006, 07:18 PM

Here's how I think things work, even though most of it is based off of the limit as x approaches infinity. I'll base this off of one of shash's posts.
Inf * inf = inf
True.

0 * 0 = 0 (lol, obviously)
True.

Inf * -inf = -inf
true.

Inf - Inf = undef
In finding the limits as x approaches infinity, this can be anything, depending on the rate at which each piece of the equation is approaching infinity. lim(x->infinity) e^x - lim(x->infinity) x^2=infinity, lim(x->infinity) e^x - lim(x->infinity) e^x = 0, and lim(x->infinity) x^2 - lim(x->infinity) e^x = -infinity.

also

0^inf = undef
This most certainly always equals 0. It doesn't matter what rate the number is approaching 0 at, since even .5^infinity would still equal 0.

1^inf = undef
True, in terms of limits. Again, if the equation of the base is approaching 1 really slowly, like 1+1/x*2, and the exponent is approaching infinity really fast, like e^x, then it would equal infinity, and the other way around would equal one, and approaching one from the between 0 and 1 side could make it equal 0.

inf/0 = inf
I disagree. If it were approaching 0 from the negative side, it could equal negative infinity, also.

0/inf = 0
True.

banditcom · 12-4-2006, 07:20 PM

I know my calculus it says u + me = us

But yeah what Reach said.

**Doug31** · 12-4-2006, 07:26 PM

Also, in responce to the title, "Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE," it really can equal any number. If the infinity = lim(x->infinity) e^x, and the zero = lim(x->infinity) 1/x, then it equals infinity, and if the infinity equals lim(x->infinity) ln x, and the zero = lim(x->infinity) 1/x, then it equals zero.

To make it so that it can equal any number, make it lim(x->infinity) ax and lim(x->infinity) 1/x, which would equal 1, if a=1, then just change a to make it any number you want.

ToshX · 12-4-2006, 07:46 PM

I can't think of anything times zero where it is not zero.

Therefore I see it as zero.

**Shashakiro** · 12-4-2006, 07:55 PM

Doug: we aren't talking about limits at all, so basically everything you said contradicting me is wrong.

lim x -> inf (.5^x) is not the same thing as .5^inf. The former is 0, the latter is undefined.

**Doug31** · 12-4-2006, 08:05 PM

How does lim(x->infinity) e^x = infinity not satisfy wikipedia's definition of infinity? Also, 0^infinity does equal 0, and so does (1/2)^infinity, which equals (1/2)*(1/2)*(1/2)*...=0, which is a horrible way of me explaining it, which doesn't prove anything, but I know 0^infinity=0 is true.

Edit: ignore that first sentence.

**Shashakiro** · 12-4-2006, 08:14 PM

Ah, I think you're right about 0 and .5...I was probably getting 0^inf confused with inf^0 (which is definitely undefined).

shutup it's been a while lol

JKPolk · 12-4-2006, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug31

How does lim(x->infinity) e^x = infinity not satisfy wikipedia's definition of infinity? Also, 0^infinity does equal 0, and so does (1/2)^infinity, which equals (1/2)*(1/2)*(1/2)*...=0, which is a horrible way of me explaining it, which doesn't prove anything, but I know 0^infinity=0 is true.

Edit: ignore that first sentence.

Technically, (.5)^infinity =/= 0, but the limit as the power approaches infinity = 0. But that's just a minor technicality. Most of the issues in this thread have just been confusing the usage of the symbol infinity with a limit as x->infinity.

**itmorr** · 12-4-2006, 08:36 PM

Why is infinite - infinite undefined?

_A2P · 12-4-2006, 08:46 PM

ANYTHING WITH INFINITY IS UNDEFINED

THE END

**Reach** · 12-4-2006, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itmorr

Why is infinite - infinite undefined?

Because the solution can be infinity, 0, or negative infinity.

Actually, there might be other ridiculously complicated solutions, but nothing I am aware of.

Think of it this way. It's like a teeter totter. If the two weights on the teeter are equal, you have 0 movement. If one side is more than the other the teeter tips all the way over.

x-> infinity

e^x - e^x = 0
e^x - x = infinity
x - e^x = -infinity

pretty basic stuff. The only difference between this and the teeter totter is we arn't dealing with actual values, but RATES. For example, e^x - x is infinity because e^x beats x to infinity.

Actually, e^x beats any polynomial to infinity. If you want some quick fun with calculus show lim x-> infinity (x^10000000000000)/e^x = 0

JKPolk · 12-4-2006, 09:16 PM

lim x-->infinity e^x - x^1000000000 = infinity

Using L'Hospital's Rule:

1billionth derivative of e^x
-----
1billionth derivative of x^1000000000

=

e^x
--
1000000000

= infinity
baddabing badda boom

**Reach** · 12-4-2006, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKPolk

lim x-->infinity e^x - x^1000000000 = infinity

Using L'Hospital's Rule:

1billionth derivative of e^x
-----
1billionth derivative of x^1000000000

=

e^x
--
1000000000

= infinity
baddabing badda boom

e^x / -x^-1000000000, since l'hopital only applies to quotients.

And even if you could do that, it would be 1000000000! on bottom.

I changed the question anyway. Not like you were supposed to post the answer here though. >.>

12-4-2006, 06:05 PM	#41
A2_Sauce FFR Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin Age: 35 Posts: 631	*Re: Infinity Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE** so you are saying a googleplex^googleplex^googleplex is closer to one than infinity? But you should note, that Infiniti should be the largest possible number in the universe in any measurement... so it's not "technically" infinity, it's just the largest known number in the universe that any measurement will withhold assuming the universe is 4-dimensional. It's a lot like the speed of light... when you shoot a gun out a window while driving a car on the beltline, someone at rest on the beltline will view that bullet going it's speed relative to the driver plus how fast the car is moving. If i'm traveling at .8c (c=speed of light), and turn my headlights on(1c), the speed form a person at rest will view the light from my "ship" to be moving only at 1c, not 1.8c, which suggests and proves that c is the fastest speed in the universe. __________________

12-4-2006, 06:13 PM	#42
skyrunner06 FFR Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: his name is millhouse Age: 36 Posts: 154	*Re: Infinity Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE** yes but if infinity is the largest number possible than that would mean that it is larger or that it is undefined so there is no answer unles both are right wich i dont see how that is possible though if u were to go faster than light?hmmm __________________ Last edited by skyrunner06; 12-4-2006 at 06:16 PM..

12-4-2006, 06:22 PM	#45
skyrunner06 FFR Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: his name is millhouse Age: 36 Posts: 154	*Re: Infinity Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE** exactly and then we would have to redo all of math because it would change how everything works wouldent it? and then noone would know the answer so its an unanserable question right __________________ Last edited by skyrunner06; 12-4-2006 at 06:24 PM..

12-4-2006, 06:30 PM	#47
skyrunner06 FFR Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: his name is millhouse Age: 36 Posts: 154	*Re: Infinity Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE** heres what wikipedia says :In mathematics, infinity is relevant to, or the subject matter of, limits, aleph numbers, classes in set theory, Dedekind-infinite sets, large cardinals, Russell's paradox, hyperreal numbers, projective geometry, extended real numbers and the absolute Infinite. __________________ Last edited by skyrunner06; 12-4-2006 at 06:33 PM..

12-4-2006, 07:18 PM	#48
Doug31 Falcon Paaaauuuunch!!!!!! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Washington Age: 36 Posts: 6,811	*Re: Infinity Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE** Here's how I think things work, even though most of it is based off of the limit as x approaches infinity. I'll base this off of one of shash's posts. Inf * inf = inf True. 0 * 0 = 0 (lol, obviously) True. Inf * -inf = -inf true. Inf - Inf = undef In finding the limits as x approaches infinity, this can be anything, depending on the rate at which each piece of the equation is approaching infinity. lim(x->infinity) e^x - lim(x->infinity) x^2=infinity, lim(x->infinity) e^x - lim(x->infinity) e^x = 0, and lim(x->infinity) x^2 - lim(x->infinity) e^x = -infinity. also 0^inf = undef This most certainly always equals 0. It doesn't matter what rate the number is approaching 0 at, since even .5^infinity would still equal 0. 1^inf = undef True, in terms of limits. Again, if the equation of the base is approaching 1 really slowly, like 1+1/x*2, and the exponent is approaching infinity really fast, like e^x, then it would equal infinity, and the other way around would equal one, and approaching one from the between 0 and 1 side could make it equal 0. inf/0 = inf I disagree. If it were approaching 0 from the negative side, it could equal negative infinity, also. 0/inf = 0 True. __________________

12-4-2006, 07:20 PM	#49
banditcom FFR Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Willimantic, CT Age: 41 Posts: 6,243	*Re: Infinity Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE** I know my calculus it says u + me = us But yeah what Reach said.

12-4-2006, 07:26 PM	#50
Doug31 Falcon Paaaauuuunch!!!!!! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Washington Age: 36 Posts: 6,811	*Re: Infinity Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE** Also, in responce to the title, "Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE," it really can equal any number. If the infinity = lim(x->infinity) e^x, and the zero = lim(x->infinity) 1/x, then it equals infinity, and if the infinity equals lim(x->infinity) ln x, and the zero = lim(x->infinity) 1/x, then it equals zero. To make it so that it can equal any number, make it lim(x->infinity) ax and lim(x->infinity) 1/x, which would equal 1, if a=1, then just change a to make it any number you want. __________________

12-4-2006, 07:46 PM	#51
ToshX FFR Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 5,111	*Re: Infinity Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE** I can't think of anything times zero where it is not zero. Therefore I see it as zero.

12-4-2006, 08:05 PM	#53
Doug31 Falcon Paaaauuuunch!!!!!! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Washington Age: 36 Posts: 6,811	*Re: Infinity Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE** How does lim(x->infinity) e^x = infinity not satisfy wikipedia's definition of infinity? Also, 0^infinity does equal 0, and so does (1/2)^infinity, which equals (1/2)(1/2)(1/2)...=0, which is a horrible way of me explaining it, which doesn't prove anything, but I know 0^infinity=0 is true. Edit: ignore that first sentence. __________________ Last edited by Doug31; 12-4-2006 at 08:08 PM..*

12-4-2006, 08:46 PM	#57
_A2P Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Chicago, Illinois Age: 34 Posts: 434	*Re: Infinity Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE** ANYTHING WITH INFINITY IS UNDEFINED THE END

12-4-2006, 09:16 PM	#59
JKPolk tool Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: satan Age: 37 Posts: 3,737	*Re: Infinity Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE** lim x-->infinity e^x - x^1000000000 = infinity Using L'Hospital's Rule: 1billionth derivative of e^x ----- 1billionth derivative of x^1000000000 = e^x -- 1000000000 = infinity baddabing badda boom __________________

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